The History Book Club discussion

This is the thread to discuss the British Monarchy and books about them. We will be setting up individual threads to discuss the various dynasties, houses, monarchs, etc.

However, this is an all inclusive thread for conversation and discussion regarding the monarchy in general.

THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE BRITISH MONARCHY:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/

HISTORY OF THE MONARCHY:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/HistoryoftheM...

Love the archival footage and audio:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/HistoryoftheM...

One book that I have picked up numerous times to look at but have not actually read is Jeremy Black's book on George III.

by Jeremy Black
Review:
"[This:] richly researched and thought provoking biography...places [George III:] firmly in his wider British European and American context." - BBC Magazine


One book on George III that I did enjoy was by Christopher Hibbert:

by Christopher Hibbert
Review:
"Colourfully illustrated and studded with witticisms, this book shows how George III's efforts to behave as a king ought to have earned him considerable popularity. Like Hibbert's Life of Johnson, Nelson and Wellington, this is more than a biography, and is subtitled A Personal History. This means that we don't only get the inside information on the monarch's manifold eccentricities, his charitable deeds, his love of books, clocks and large families, his cheerful fidelity to a plain and difficult wife, and what he felt about his nine legitimate and approximately 53 illegitimate grandchildren. We also learn about the background to the American War of Independence, the anti-Catholic Gordon Riots and the intricacies of English--or rather British--politics during the second half of the 18th century." - Amazon.co.uk Review

The Queen and a Hung Parliament:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/po...

The Queen is the only person who can invite someone to form a government and to become prime minister.

But that does not mean that the monarch can exercise any personal discretion over the choice of No 10's occupant.

After a general election, the Queen is obliged, by long-established convention, to invite the person who seems most likely to command the confidence of the House of Commons to become prime minister and to form a government.
If the outcome of that election is inconclusive, it is for the political parties to determine who that person is, and to communicate that choice to Buckingham Palace.

Only then will the Queen receive any outgoing prime minister to accept his resignation and, a short time later, to invite someone else to take his place.

These books are more about some of the European monarchs rather than specifically the British ones, but I couldn't find more suitable place to suggest these books. If there is a better spot for these recommendations, I will be happy to move this post. Eleanor Herman wrote:

Sex with the Queen
and
Sex with Kings

Sometimes comical, sometimes surprising, and always informative yet amusing, these books chronicle the extramarital affairs that famous European monarchs conducted and the impact that these instances of "bedroom politics" had on the course of history. Beach reading for the history buff.

So far Hannah...this seems like the best place...as we expand...we will rearrange and find new spots.

Your adds are appreciated. And thank you for categorizing the type of reading they might be.

Queen marks Canada Day in Ottawa

The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh have marked Canada Day on Parliament Hill in Ottawa.

Her Majesty arrived in a horse-drawn carriage to thousands of supporters to help the country celebrate its 143rd birthday.

The Queen has not been to Canada Day celebrations since 1997.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/1048295...

I've just watched a fascinating documentary online called "Nazi King". It's about King Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor and Wallis Simpson/Duchess of Windsor, and their pro-Nazi sentiments, which made them very dangerous before and during WWII. This doc can be viewed for only 7 days online on Canada's CBC network - http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/passi... - so be sure to see it this week if you're interested.

I watched the movie "Young Victoria" and really enjoyed it. Very interesting and how strong Victoria's and Albert's love was.

This might be a good read:
by Cecil Woodham-Smith

Hi Bryan,

That's a pretty enjoyable movie isn't it! I quite liked it myself. Another couple of decent books on Queen Victoria are:

by Christopher Hibbert

and

by Stanley Weintraub

Thanks, A.R. I own the second book and it looks good.

by Stanley Weintraub

Here is an out of print book of his letters:
Letters of the Prince Consort 1831-1861by Albert, Prince Consort of Victoria, Queen of Great Britain

Here is a nice companion book to read with it; "Uncrowned King: The Life of Prince Albert" by Stanley Weintraub.

by Stanley Weintraub
Review:
"Weintraub (Shaw's People, LJ 5/15/96) is eminently qualified to write this book by virtue of his previous biographies of Victoria (LJ 1/87), Disraeli (LJ 9/1/93), and other important figures of Prince Albert's era. The depth and breadth of his knowledge inform this work throughout. There are no shocking revelations about Victoria's consort here but a well-researched and detailed portrait, which draws on accounts from Americans who met the prince and contemporary magazines and newspapers, including scandal sheets and satirical publications (Punch and others). The wealth of detail makes this more appropriate for the knowledgeable reader, but it is also accessible to the interested neophyte. A worthy addition to any library that does not have a recent biography of Prince Albert and for libraries that collect heavily in this area." - Library Journal

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Here is a nice companion book to read with it; "Uncrowned King: The Life of Prince Albert" by Stanley Weintraub.

by [author:Stanley ..."

Thanks, A.R. I will have to read this one. The movie picks up when he first meets Victoria, so his upbringing would be an interesting read. For one, what got him in interested in the poor

Hi Bryan, I think Albert is a very interesting man and not really appreciated enough in the UK till recently. Another interesting book on the subject (sorry to do this to you) is; "The Queen's Knight" by Martyn Downer.

by Martyn Downer
Publishers blurb:
Sir Howard Elphinstone, dashing miltary hero of the siege of Sevastopol, was awarded the Victoria Cross in 1858, aged just twenty-nine. As he recuperated from injuries he'd received during the campaign, the Queen installed this paragon of military valour at heart of her court at Windsor as guardian to her third and favourite son, Prince Arthur. Victoria wanted a soldier alongside her, as an antidote to the ageing ministers and courtiers who stalked the corridors. Intriguingly, as a young woman, before she was queen, Victoria had been completely smitten with Howard's cousin John, Lord Elphinstone, but he had been deemed an unsuitable match for a monarch. Having lost one military hero, she seemed determined to make sure it didn't happen again...The "Queen's Knight" tells an engrossing story of life at the gilded heart of Queen Victoria's court, via the extraordinary friendship between her and Howard Elphinstone, until his untimely death in 1890. It was at first a place of lavish parties and regular dances, as the miseries of the Crimean war faded and the Empire expanded to its zenith. The Queen and Prince Albert deliberately recreated Camelot, as an antidote to the dissolute image of previous generations of monarchs, and Elphinstone was the favourite knight at their round table. In the far more sombre days after Albert's death, Elphinstone became increasingly vital to the Queen, as evidenced by an extraordinarily candid and prolific corresponsdence between them, much of which has never before been published. Set in a sweeping global landscape populated by presidents, princes and prime ministers, The Queen's Knight visits Quebec, explores New York and travels down the Nile to explore the courts of Europe, many of which were about to be destroyed forever by war and revolution. Yet despite this broad canvas, it remains essentially a portrait of the close affectionate relationship between Victoria and Elphinstone. It sheds new light on Victoria's extraordinary life in presenting the frail, human being at the heart of a vast Empire.

Can anyone recommend a good bio about Edward VIII? I'm particularly interested in his days as Prince of Wales, and his visits to Canada. Thanks!

Philip Ziegler

There is the above.

Brief Review:

With unrivalled access to secret Cabinet documents, the unpublished papers of Chamberlain, Baldwin, Churchill and other statesmen, and thousands of hitherto unread private letters, Philip Ziegler reveals the complex personality of the King, in a masterly biography which is unlikely to be surpassed.
When King Edward VIII acceded to the throne in January 1936, Stanley Baldwin hailed him as the best qualified of British monarchs. The British people needed no such reassurance. They knew him to be widely travelled, good-looking, eloquent and quick-witted; concerned about the problems of unemployment, poverty and homelessness that plagued his people. Only those closest to him suspected that this radiant image would not endure; only the best informed were not appalled when his reign ended so abruptly.

The entire life of Edward VIII is examined: his supposedly unhappy boyhood, his glamorous existence as Prince of Wales, his brief and inglorious reign with its sensational ending, his period as Governor of the Bahamas, and his long decline in semi-exile. Ziegler describes his relationships with George V and Queen Mary, George VI and Queen Elizabeth, Freda Dudley Ward, Adolf Hitler, Oswald Mosley and many others; and most of all, analyses the passion for Wallis Simpson which led to his abdication after only eleven months. The result is a frank and wholly convincing biography.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Bryan, I think Albert is a very interesting man and not really appreciated enough in the UK till recently. Another interesting book on the subject (sorry to do this to you) is; "The Queen's Knig..."

Sounds very interesting, A.R. thanks, I like books that cover the human side of things, too, and this looks like it covers a bit of the inside story.

Bentley wrote: "Philip Ziegler

There is the above.

Brief Review:

With unrivalled access to secret Cabinet documents, the unpublished pape..."

Thanks, Bentley. Looks like just what I need. I read one about him written in 1937 by Hector Bolitho - , but wanted another (more critical) perspective on him.

Bryan wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Here is a nice companion book to read with it; "Uncrowned King: The Life of Prince Albert" by Stanley Weintraub.

..."

Bentley wrote: "Philip Ziegler

Bryan,
I just found a little book called We Two: Victoria and Albert:Rulers, Partners Rivals. It seems to be a easy quick read but contains a good bibliography

There is the above.

Brief Review:

With unrivalled access to secret Cabinet documents, the unpublished pape..."

<

i>Bryan wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Bryan, I think Albert is a very interesting man and not really appreciated enough in the UK till recently. Another interesting book on the subject (sorry to do this to you)..."

Bryan wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Bryan, I think Albert is a very interesting man and not really appreciated enough in the UK till recently. Another interesting book on the subject (sorry to do this to you)..."

Gabriele wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Philip Ziegler

There is the above.

Brief Review:

With unrivalled access to secret Cabinet documents, the ..."

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Bryan,

That's a pretty enjoyable movie isn't it! I quite liked it myself. Another couple of decent books on Queen Victoria are:

by [author:Christopher Hi..."

Gabriele wrote: "I've just watched a fascinating documentary online called "Nazi King". It's about King Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor and Wallis Simpson/Duchess of Windsor, and their pro-Nazi sentiments, which made t..."

Hi Mary:

Did you try to post something? It is a little unclear with all the replies going on.

Yes, Bryan
Wanted to let you to know about We Two Victoria and Albert Rulers Partners Rivals. I found right after I had seen Young Victoria. It is a quick read

Let me know it what you think.

Mary

Great Mary, thanks for the recommendation:

Don't forget to link the book cover, author photo, and author link when you cite a book. This way people can click and the software can count how many times it is cited. Here you go:

Gillian Gill

Also Mary, if anybody in the group wants to find out what group members thought of the book and/or find conversations and even threads where the book is discussed; with the citations all of the above you are able to find easily.

Well, I just saw the King's Speech and it was great.

It is based on the book written by the grandson of the speech therapist Lionel Logue:

by Mark Logue

Now I'm going to have read more about Kings Edward VII and George VI!

So did I; fabulous wasn't it; loved Colin Firth's performance but also Rush's. Just saw it yesterday myself!

Bentley wrote: "So did I; fabulous wasn't it; loved Colin Firth's performance but also Rush's. Just saw it yesterday myself!"

It was great and Firth totally lost himself in that part. He should win the Oscar. I forgot that the King had a stutter. Did you like the little exchange between the King and Churchill when Churchill said he had a speech impediment? I think he said, he made it his own and he did.

Yes, I think Churchill endeared himself to the King at that point. I wasn't so hip on the Arch Bishop of Canterbury. I agree Firth deserves it.

Here is a link to The Royal Channel (lots of good stuff)


http://www.youtube.com/theroyalchannel

Good job Demetrius.

Yes, some good suggestions. Other suggestions worth mentioning by Tudor expert David Starkey are:

by David Starkey

Description:

Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers

The legend of Elizabeth I, the untouchable, charismatic Virgin Queen, is a powerful and enduring one. Most biographies focus on the years of her reign, during which she proved herself as adept a ruler -- and as shrewd an operator -- as England had ever seen. But while the history of her rule is fascinating, the story of how her remarkable character was forged seems vital to a full understanding of the woman who led England into a new age of prosperity, power, and artistic achievement. David Starkey's Elizabeth: The Struggle for the Throne explores the terra incognita of Elizabeth's early years, and the result is nothing short of captivating.

Starkey finds that Elizabeth's early years ran the gamut from days of snug security as the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn, and Henry's heir apparent, to the years of uncertainty after her mother's execution when Elizabeth was separated from court and virtually forgotten. She received a first-rate academic education, excelling in languages and rhetoric and exhibiting a strong interest in the Protestant religion her father had established in England. But the education she received from life itself would prove far more valuable for the monarch-to-be. After the death of Henry VIII and Edward VI (Elizabeth's half brother), Elizabeth's status as sister and would-be successor to the Catholic queen Mary put her in a dangerous position.

It also put her in prison at Mary's command -- and perilously close to execution -- after plots to place Elizabeth on the throne were revealed. Starkey makes it clear that while others may have actually done the dirty work, Elizabeth was usually in the thick of these efforts. Her imprisonment taught her to cover her tracks, but it did not stop her maneuverings. While fervently professing her Catholic faith, she surrounded herself with Protestant advisers and attendants, and bided her time.

She evaded another snare of her sister's when Mary attempted to neutralize Elizabeth by marrying her off to a Catholic Spaniard in exchange for naming Elizabeth her successor. Perhaps Elizabeth had learned early on from the plight of her mother that marriage had its drawbacks. Starkey, however, suggests that Elizabeth, in a moment of true regality, would not accept the crown if it came through bullying and capitulation. Again, Elizabeth bided her time.

Her seeming patience -- for Starkey reveals that Elizabeth continued to plot -- paid off when Mary, never robust, entered her final illness. Elizabeth managed to convince the now irrational queen that she was, indeed, a staunch Catholic and vowed to preserve England as a Catholic realm. Upon Mary's death, Elizabeth ascended to the throne with no meaningful opposition, thereby beginning what would be a golden age, one of the most legendary reigns in history. Starkey lets us understand, for the first time, the forces that made her into the formidable woman -- and brilliant ruler -- that she would soon prove to be.

by David Starkey

Description:
The six-week New York Times bestselling history of the legendary six wives of Henry VIII —from an acclaimed biographer. "Admirably succeed(s) in bringing to life the six women who married England's ruler. . . ."—New York Times Book Review. 16 color plates. 32 pages of illustrations.

by David Starkey

Description:
David Starkey's thrilling new paperback charts the rise of the British monarchy from the War of the Roses, the English Civil War and the Georgians, right up until the present day monarchs of the 20th Century.

by David Starkey

Description:
The first instalment of the highly anticipated biography of Henry VIII, written by one of the UK's most popular, established and exciting historians. Published to coincide with the 500th anniversary of Henry's accession to the throne, 'Henry: Virtuous Prince' is a radical re-evaluation of the monarchy's most enduring icon. Henry VIII was Britain's most powerful monarch, yet he was not born to rule. Thrust into the limelight after the sudden death of his elder brother, Prince Arthur, Henry ascended the throne in 1509, marking the beginning of a reign that altered the course of English history. In his youth Henry was highly intelligent, athletic and musically talented. He excelled in Latin and Mathematics and was an accomplished musician. On his accession to the throne, aged just seventeen, after the tumultuous rule of his father, he provided England with hope of a new beginning. Nobody could have foreseen how radical Henry's rule would prove to be. Often overshadowed by the bloody saga of his six marriages, his reign has left a lasting legacy. An absolute monarch, Henry's quest for fame was as obsessive as any modern celebrity.His fierce battles against Papal authority mark one of the most dramatic and defining moments in the history of Britain. Yet his early life was insecure. The Tudor regime was viewed by many as rule by usurpers and the dark shadows of the Wars of the Roses often threatened to tear England apart once more. The culmination of a lifetime's research, David Starkey gives a radical and unforgettable portrait of the man behind the icon; the Renaissance prince turned tyrant, who continues to tower over history.

by David Starkey

Description:
The year 2009 marks the 500th anniversary of Henry VIII’s accession to the throne, and to celebrate this momentous occasion, leading Tudor scholars David Starkey and Susan Doran examine the extraordinary transformations—personal and political, intellectual and religious, literary, aesthetic, and linguistic—that took place during Henry’s reign.

Drawing on the British Library’s unparalleled collections, Henry VIII explores the motives and beliefs that spurred Henry’s actions, masterfully telling the story of his reign. This refreshing approach reaches beyond the myths and stereotypes surrounding this monumental historical figure and encourages readers to reassess their perceptions of the great Tudor monarch who still manages to cast a spell over our imaginations.

Richly illustrated with color images from the accompanying exhibition at the British Library—including many of Henry’s own annotated volumes—and including contributions from notable scholars such as Eamon Duffy and James Carley, this volume presents an unsurpassed firsthand outline of the revolutionary changes in ideas that took place during Henry’s reign—and above all, in his own mind.

For more books on Tudor monarchs, it may be worth looking through this Goodreads list: Best Books About Tudor England

And for an overview of English monarchy I would suggest reading a book such as this to get up to speed:

by Ian Crofton

These are excellent adds Max.

Thanks Bentley, glad you like them.

I double that, Max, good stuff, thanks!

Thanks Bryan! You're welcome.

Here is a new release in the UK on Henry VIII that may interest readers who enjoy tales of the Monarchy; "Young Henry: The Rise of Henry VIII" by Robert Hutchinson.

by Robert Hutchinson
Description:
Henry VIII always had problems with women. Born on 28 June 1491, he lived in the shadow of his elder brother Arthur and his dour and autocratic father, Henry VII. Elizabeth of York, Henry's mother, died when he was twelve and thereafter he lived under the thumb of his formidable grandmother, Lady Margaret Beaufort, who beneath a pious exterior was the arch-conspirator of the last days of the Wars of the Roses. Everything changed when Arthur died of tuberculosis at Ludlow Castle in 1502, less than six months after his marriage to the Spanish princess, Catherine of Aragon. Henry VII died in April 1509 when his sole heir was nine weeks away from his eighteenth birthday. His grandmother acted as regent until his birthday and he married his brother's widow, Catherine on 11 June, two weeks before their joint coronation. Henry quickly swept away the musty cobwebs of his father's court. He loved magnificence, merriment and the hunting field, and could fire an arrow further than most of his professional archers. Henry could dance everyone off their feet and could drink most men under the table. But Henry became frustrated and angry at his lack of sons by Catherine and his attention began to wander. Some time in 1526 he fell passionately in love with Anne Boleyn. At the age of 35, the time for youthful frolic had ended. To achieve his heart's overpowering desire, the executions had now to begin. Young Henry provides readers with an unique and compelling vision of the splendours and tragedies of the royal court, presided over by a magnificent and ruthless monarch.

Reviews:
"Anyone who sees history as boring should be given Robert Hutchinson's book post haste. Without sacrificing facts and research, he has the ability to construct and absolutely compelling narrative and, though I never thought I'd say this of a book on Thomas Cromwell, one that is impossible to put down. He is one of the few authors who keep you up till 3am. His new book, covering the first 35 years of the life of Henry VIII, is a complementary volume to his splendid LAST DAYS OF HENRY VIII." - Sue Baker (THE BOOKSELLER)

"This is an enjoyable, unfussy history which explains a lot about the man who became Henry VIII...Robert Hutchinson vividly shows us the monster in the making and teaches us to feel a modicum of pity for his plight." - Christopher Hudson (DAILY MAIL)

This is an odd youtube video with

Reagan, the Queen and decaffeinated coffee

President Reagan and Queen Elizabeth discuss the economy, bureaucracy and try to get a cup of decaffeinated coffee. This is a scene from the 1992 documentary Elizabeth R

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RDGkl...

This book concentrates on all the reigning monarchs in power immediately preceding WWI and their eventual loss of power by the end of that war. But it does put emphasis on George V of England and how he alone retained his throne. A good book by an excellent historian.

by Theo Aronson(no photo).

Thanks, Jill, looks good!

The abdication of Edward VIII (later Duke of Windsor) for "the woman I love", caught the imagination of the world and is still considered a great love story. This book puts paid to that misconception, if indeed it was a misconception. The author pulls no punches in his portrayal of the Duke and Duchess.....a weak man controlled by a grasping woman. Their later life seemed to add credence to this opinion.....this is not a flattering biography but I found it fascinating.

John Parker (no photo)

Thank you for the add Jill. We really appreciate it.

My favorite English Kings are Edward I and Henry VII.

Daniel......Henry VII who created the Tudor dynasty never has gotten the attention that the rest of the Tudor's have received......but of course the succeeding heirs played more on the world stage. Although I haven't read this book, it might be something you want to try since I am familiar with the author.

by Jean Plaidy

Jill wrote: "Daniel......Henry VII who created the Tudor dynasty never has gotten the attention that the rest of the Tudor's have received......but of course the succeeding heirs played more on the world stage...."

That'd be nice, it certainly looks like a refreshing read. And yes, Henry VII is often an overlooked king, yet he was a clever ruler, keeping finances in order and maintaining stability. He also sent John Cabot to North America. Very underrated king, in my opinion. And Henry VIII is vastly overrated.

by Lisa Hilton (no photo)

A history of the medieval queens who shaped the history of the nation when all politics were family politics and dynastic marriages placed the Queen at the center of power. The lives of twenty queens who were crowned between 1066 to 1503 are examined in this book.

Thank you Jill for the attention to these threads.

My pleasure, Bentley.

This is an interesting article in today's news:

'Outdated' British royal succession rules to change
First-born daughters will have new right to inherit the throne

PERTH, Australia — British Prime Minister David Cameron said Friday that the 16 Commonwealth countries for which Queen Elizabeth II is monarch have agreed to remove gender discrimination in the order of succession to the throne.

Commonwealth national leaders also agreed at a summit in the west coast city of Perth to lift a ban on monarchs marrying Roman Catholics, he said.

Any one of the former British colonies could have vetoed the changes to the centuries-old rules that ensure that a male heir takes the throne ahead of older sisters.

"Attitudes have changed fundamentally over the centuries and some of the outdated rules — like some of the rules of succession — just don't make sense to us any more," Cameron told reporters in Perth.

"The idea that a younger son should become monarch instead of an elder daughter simply because he is a man, or that a future monarch can marry someone of any faith except a Catholic — this way of thinking is at odds with the modern countries that we have become," he added.

Remainder of Article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45073553/...

Source: MSNBC

by William Shawcross (no ophoto)

The official biography of Queen Elizabeth, (lovingly known as the Queen Mum), the consort of George VI and mother to Queen Elizabeth II. Probably one of the most beloved of all the royals her life is traced from the young woman who never thought that her husband would sit on the throne, through WWI and the London blitz until her death at the age of 100 when she became almost iconic.