fiction files redux discussion
Group Reads
>
The Light in August in 2010
Mod
This is what I said after reading the first 100 pages of my very first Faulkner novel, which was this one, in April:
"I am just amazed by the layering of picture upon picture, phrase upon phrase, to create this world I can perfectly picture. It had to be rewrites, I think. It had to be done in stages... unless he was the kind of writer who pictures a world perfectly, closes his eyes, and it just flows out of him."
To me this is one of those things that makes him a master of language - the layering, the perfect beauty of the layers, what he leaves out for you to complete.
JE has mentioned before how much he hates phrases like "smelling the curve of a river" but it resonates for me perfectly - the curves of rivers have grasses and smell like water animals. They smell.
I'm in. What's the time frame? Dare I suggest we read it in August? ;)
Hell yes! I'm so excited for this discussion to begin! We need an epic amount of people ready to take on another Faulkner read...and yes, it is far more accessible than Absalom, Absalom. Thanks so much for moderating this discussion, Hugh! I might have to take the weight off your back one of these times and moderate our next Faulkner discussion or something...I kind of welched on the "Sometimes a Great Notion" discussion and I still feel bad about that.1. I don't know if you meant the whole experience of reading, or if you mean my experience reading Faulkner...I'm going to assume the latter because that's what this discussion is about! My experience with reading Faulkner began with "Barn Burning" and "A Rose for Emily" in high school, which I loved. Then I became a pretentious English major in college, so naturally I picked up Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying." It was okay, but I think I was a bit too young to appreciate it fully. Then I picked up "The Sound and the Fury" and I felt like I was having the top of my head taken off! I had to go to the internet to find out what was going on! Once I found out what was happening, I really enjoyed reading the book and since then, Quentin Compson has become one of my two favorite literary characters. This was all free-reading by the way. Not once at my university have we read something by Faulkner. "Absalom, Absalom!" came along next and it really threw me for a loop, but in a good way, and it featured a return performance of Quentin Compson, which I loved! The thing I love most about Faulkner is his ability to use his labyrinthine sentences in a manner that is as close to spellbinding as I've ever seen and at the same time he is able to create characters so human that we don't doubt their existence, as we will see with Lena Grove, Joe Christmas, and Gail Hightower in "Light in August". I think my vocabulary has been expanded more by Faulkner than any other single writer. I think I'll stop here, because if I don't I never will--I fall under the heading of "Faulknerite".
2. I'm sorry but I have the unfair advantage of having read this book at least twice already, so I will say that I expect to find this time through one of Faulkner's greatest works, something new that I hadn't noticed before. Because if there's one thing that can be said about great literature, and Faulkner's in particular, each time you come back you find something you hadn't seen before! Great depictions of alienation and prejudice and the effects that both these concepts have on individuals as well as groups are sure to be found!
The 4-part system looks good to me, Hugh. Just let us know the time line and it'll be on like Donkey-Kong!
Mod
Yeah, count me in. I'm long overdue to meet Mr. Faulkner.Didn't he show up piss drunk to his Nobel Prize induction? Outstanding.
-G
well, sure. By when do I need to get it? But who the hell is Faulkner, anyway? I always hear his name referenced, but that's about all I've got in preparation.
Er, wait....is this one of those metaphorically sublime you'll-never-get-this-unless-you're-a-literary genius-type books? Not that there's anything wrong with that...
Shel wrote: "Well, I was always the dork in the class willing to put themselves out there first, so here I go again.This is what I said after reading the first 100 pages of my very first Faulkner novel, which..."
Haha! Taken out of context, I can see why he'd hate it. See what you've done, Shel? Now I HAVE to read it - to see how weird it is....or isn't.
I hope this isn't gonna start until at least March or so, since I've got to read 2666 for another group discussion thingy. :) Damn long books!
I've read A Rose for Emily and appreciated the language more than the story itself. After reading Barn Burning, I knew that he had IT. That language. That voice. That natural ability to draw the reader in. I expect there will be quite a bit (concerning structure and technique) I won't understand while reading Light in August, but much to be gained while discussing this book with you all. I'll be sitting in the back row, listening attentively.
Mod
Mod
Wait til we get to Joe Christmas. Sparks fly.
YAY, it's great to have you aboard, JE! It probably doesn't mean much coming from one of the biggest Faulkner fans in this group, but I really think you'll enjoy "Light in August"...it's definitely the most straightforward of his four "best" novels. And Joe Christmas = one of Faulkner's best characters.
Hmm... nobody answered my question... when do we aim to start this?I've not read that much Faulkner. The only book I've read is As I Lay Dying. I think my GR review of it was something like "I loved it but it's almost too perfect." I feel like novels should be flawed. Faulkner may be too good for his own good in some senses, at least in that novel.
Mod
In the meantime, I'll post some background on the novel and Faulkner, where he was at in his career when he wrote Light.... I'm open to suggestions.
would love to have some background on the novel and the author.
Mod
Mod
Jonathan wrote: " . . .god, i hope you guys are right . . .i'm ready to bury the hatchet with bill . . ."I hope this book works out for you, JE! I'd love to see you singing "Faulkner is just all right!"
Mod
Mod
All right, so after talking to Hugh, I've decided to post a little of my own background information on Faulkner and "Light in August."The story of how "Light in August" came to be so titled is something I found really interesting. The story goes: After Faulkner had finished writing this novel, then titled "Dark House," he was sitting on the porch with his wife. They sat there until the sun started to set. At that point, Estelle turned to Bill and remarked on the peculiar quality of the light in the month of August, particularly around sunset. A moment later, Bill stood up and walked straight to where his manuscript sat in his study and scratched out the words "Dark House" and penciled in "Light in August." Interestingly enough, the working title "Dark House" then became the working title for "Absalom, Absalom!".
Another interesting tidbit is this: After looking around a bit, I learned that the term "Light in August" in Mississippi is actually a term used for the birth of farm animals.
I'm looking forward to hearing some more cool background info about Faulkner and the book at the time that it was published, so if anyone has something to add, please feel free!
Mod
I have made it through the first chapter quite easily. Already I can tell this isn't going to be like Absalom. I will be able to finish it and I may also enjoy it!
There has been a right smart number of times that Faulkner mentions characters not looking at each other but still "seeing" things. I am definitely interested to see where this goes.
Dan wrote: "Already I am enjoying this conversation. I like the bit about the titling Ryan, if you have more anecdotes be sure and share them! I have made it through the first chapter quite easily. Already I..."
Hey, that's good news about your progress, Dan! And I like what you said about Faulkner and "seeing". Throughout the book I think we're going to see a lot of situations and issues that deal with the notion of the difference between knowing, seeing, perceiving, and understanding.
By the way, for future reference, my name is just Ry, not Ryan. But don't worry! You're forgiven--it happens a lot. :P
Mod
Dan wrote: "My apologies sir. After wading into the second chapter you seem quite right in the continuation of themes of experiencing. Rather interesting. "It's quite all right. I'm just about to page 90 and I believe we begin to see around this point the introduction, or the start of the fleshing out of one, maybe even two more major themes to the novel.
Alienation is one major theme that we see developing by the time the fourth chapter begins, which is not surprising, as alienation is one of the main tenets of Modernist work. Joe Christmas, Lena Grove, Joanna Burden, Byron Bunch, and Gail Hightower, we see, are all outsiders in some form or another. Some of the time this exile is manifested by geographical location as with Burden and Hightower and Grove, but I think that the most present alienated form is that of identity. Each of these people is a stranger to those in the town. And this strangeness is what leads, in my opinion to the second major theme that begins to develop here in chapter four.
Prejudice and what comes with it is the second major theme we see developing. This may be a no, duh moment as it is a Faulkner novel, but the strangeness that can be found in all these alien figures contributes overwhelmingly to the attitude held by others toward these figures. Especially with Hightower, we see how the lack of forgiveness toward strange people is fueled by prejudice--when the background on Hightower is given, we see that people only like and forgive Hightower when he is doing what they want. When he declines, they forget their Christian charity and smite him. Joanna Burden is another obvious figure as the object of prejudice. I believe you know why. I'll stop now and see what others have to say!
Mod
One of the things Hugh mentioned when he and I read it was the distinct lack of family, which is sort of like the alienation you mention. I'll leave off there; maybe he will add more.
Although technically I should be writing something right now about the JCO story.
Mod
On the title: in Frederick R. Karl's exhaustive (and exhausting) literary biography of Faulkner, he relates the story that later in his (Faulkner's) life, when lecturing to a class, he was asked about the title and said that "yes" while "light" was a southern term for pregnancy what he had intended was a reference to the special quality of light in the sky in the south in August.
As for "Dark House", I'd say don't forget that title, especially since Joe Christmas will find himself in at least one "dark house" by the end of this tale.
Karl also says that in the first draft of the novel, Chapter 3 was the first chapter of the novel. What makes the move of changing his opening so brilliant in my opinion is that while Chapter 3 takes us deeper into what the story is "about", Chapter 1 is such a bold opening for the story:
A young, pregnant woman (with a certain innocence or at least, a kind of dogged naivete) is walking a dirt road in Mississippi.
While Joe Christmas is not the father (or child!) -- she will encounter a man who DOES agree to stand in as father, as Joseph did in the Biblical story. (A quick check of a Bible Concordance shows 76 different uses of "light" with some fairly notable references to Jesus Christ as in the opening chapter of Luke's gospel:
"And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways.... To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.")
Whether there is any connection between the fact this book has 21 Chapters and the Gospel of John has 21 is questionable... but I think as the story progresses we may want to talk about both the details and structure of the story of Joe Christmas that have some Biblical resonance.
Hugh wrote: "A couple random thoughts:On the title: in Frederick R. Karl's exhaustive (and exhausting) literary biography of Faulkner, he relates the story that later in his (Faulkner's) life, when lecturing ..."
Hey Hugh, thanks for bringing the Biblical references and resonances to light (no pun intended). I'd like to add a couple more biblical "coincidences" that occur in "Light in August":
-In "Light in August" there are 66 characters, while there are the same number of books in The Bible.
-If you have the Vintage International version of "Light in August," you will also see a list of allusions or outright quotes from the Bible that appear somewhere in the novel.
This being said, I like how Faulkner seems to keep religion--at least institutionalized religion--at an arm's distance. Faulkner definitely seems to favor spirituality over religion. Both McEachern and Christmas' grandfather, two people who should have taken care of him, ended up being two of the most harmful influences on Christmas' life.
Well, I would like to say more, but I have to go to class!
Mod
Whoops, my bad! I'll edit the post a bit. I'm burning to talk about other stuff, but I figure I should probably give other people the chance to talk, as I'm both long-winded and usually prolific in my commentary! Again, I'm so excited to be doing this discussion!
Mod
Mod
1. What's your experience of reading Faulkner?
I've only ever attempted to read Absalom! Absalom! (two summers ago) and I failed. I enjoyed it for the new words I learned and it's very "Southernness" but I found it very difficult to read and I finally gave up. I tend to read anywhere and everywhere, but when it came to Faulkner I found that I needed an extra amount of concentration which required shutting myself in a room alone, with no music, or any other distractions. That was a inconvenience that I could not overcome to finish the book.
2. What's your expectation of reading this book by Faulkner?
My expectation is to finish it! So far (I'm about 30 pages in) it seems much, much easier than A!A! There hasn't been a multi page paragraph yet, which is a relief!
I'm excited!
Oh, so yes, I'm definitely on the Faulknerphobe side.
Mod
http://www.oprah.com/oprahsbookclub/L...
Including this How To Read Faulkner Guide which actually has some helpful hints in it (well, helpful for me) on how to approach the work of Faulkner:
http://www.oprah.com/oprahsbookclub/F...
Mod
A few of my own reflections, a backpack of sorts for Light in August:
1. Time can often be a challenge in Faulkner; he jumps forward and backward in his narrative. Stories of people’s lives are often revealed as they are in life – over time, learning some detail of a person’s past much later in the book. In the moment, in the middle of reading this can be jarring but if you go with it things start to make sense. For example, Chapter 1 ends with Lena Grove seeing smoke in the distance. A good bit of the novel will be leading up to this moment, and this fire.
2. “Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders.” This quote/thought will come up more than once – again: I don’t know that I would worry about understanding it (!), but how does each character inhabit the different elements: remembering, believing, knowing, and wondering.
3. As Shel mentioned earlier, I’d also recommend noting various family interactions – including surrogate or “unofficial” families.
4. For those of you interested in Faulkner’s own biographical details…. (please skip if you’re a reader who would rather sit with the text and find the author’s biography irrelevant at best, at worst, distracting….)
Light in August was written at a particularly busy time in Faulkner’s life from 1931 to 1932… He had just published his novel Sanctuary which was to establish his place in American letters. (According to Wikipedia, Faulkner himself said he wrote it as a “potboiler” purely for profit; a fact debated by various folks.) While trying to work on Light in August he attended a Southern Literary Conference and then traveled to New York where he was feted by agents, publishers and members of the Algonquin Round Table. He completed the manuscript for LiA, two months after returning to Mississippi.
The biographer, Frederick Karl, writes with not a little awe about how Faulkner managed to complete such a complex book given that, at this time, Faulkner alternated between being soused and hungover. He credits Faulkner’s insomnia for keeping him writing in the early morning hours after partying with his newfound Manhattan pals.
This book comes at a particularly fertile period in Faulkner’s life. He published The Sound and The Fury in 1929, As I Lay Dying in 1930, Santuary in 1931, and Light in August in 1932. It would be three years until his next book, Pylon in 1935 – and by this time had begun writing for Hollywood. (Bit of literary trivia: Faulkner donated a portion of his Nobel Prize money (he won the award in 1949) to establish “a fund to support and encourage new fiction writers” which eventually became the PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction.)
Mod
Mod
There is a lot of mystery in this book... enough to give academics convulsions for years, apparently (kidding, kidding).
Zipping my lips now. Nope! Won't throw any spoilers in. :)
This is my 1st Faulkner bookSo far I've gotten to where Lena Grove meets Byron Bunch
I liked how Faulkner gets into how Lena is looked at differently by men versus how women looked at Lena marching along pregnant to find the father.
I don't think men and women would look at her differently today but can't say why I think that way.
I don't understand why the farm wife gives Lena the egg money given how the farm wife views Lena.
Mod
Hugh wrote: "I think I'm doing this right.... Anybody up for some Bill Faulkner in the new year? Come on -- Light in August is one of his greatest. Really.Let's try it in Four Parts:
Part I -- Chapters 1 t..."
is there a general time schedule for reading and discussing the book for the 4 parts mentioned above?
I'm on chapter 6 and don't want to discuss anything too soon
Jim wrote: "Hugh wrote: "I think I'm doing this right.... Anybody up for some Bill Faulkner in the new year? Come on -- Light in August is one of his greatest. Really.Let's try it in Four Parts:
Part I --..."
Here you go, Jim! This is what Hugh had to say at least about the first 5 chapters:
"Timing. Right. Well, how about we start the discussion of Part I (Chapters 1 through 5) on January 25th. That gives folks a little time to get it and two weeks to read the first five chapters...."
It's definitely no crime to start talking about the chapters before the 25th, but I'm sure everyone would appreciate keeping the spoilers to the minimum! I'm ready to start talking about the first 5 chapters any time you're ready!
Mod
This issue of how women treat Lena is one we should definitely deal with throughout the book. While one might think there might be jealousy toward this young woman in her house, there is a certain tenderness to that gesture (even though her general tone is not exactly warm and fuzzy (then again, not too many folks are in Faulkner.))
It touches upon issues between men and women too throughout the book, I think. This ability to be compassionate requires some kind of empathy -- a quality that I think seems to elude some characters in this book.
Mod
Mod
I thought that the kindness shown by the first woman we really hear about other than Lena (and her eternally pregnant or lying in sister in law) was definitely a moment to compare the kindness of strangers to the lack of kindness shown by other "family" members toward one another in this book.
The kindness of the human family vs. the intimately connected one.
I hesitate to go too far into it... because that would be a spoiler.
One of the most important aspects of the book is definitely one that has been mentioned by others, so I'll just echo, I guess - it's about how humans relate, don't relate, see each other and don't see... identity, intimacy... I didn't see as much distinction between men and women -- in this book I thought all of them could be equally cruel and kind -- but maybe I'll catch more of that this time around.
Mod
And that was the first time Byron remembered that he had ever thought how a man's name, which is supposed to be just the sound for who he is, can be somehow an augur of what he will do, if other men can only read the meaning in time. It seemed to him that none of them had looked especially at the stranger until they heard his name. But as soon as they heard it, it was as though there was something in the sound of it that was trying to tell them what to expect; that he carried with him his own inescapable warning, like a flower its scent or a rattlesnake its rattle.
Augur. I love that word augur: a seer or prophet, a soothsayer.
The idea that if we pay attention to a man's name we will understand some of what he is on earth to do.
There is a masculine bent to all of it, I thought, until you get to the flower. And then... the rattlesnake.
Mod
definitely a moment to compare the kindness of strangers to the lack of kindness shown by other "family" members toward one another in this book.
The kindness of the human family vs. the intimately connected one.
You're right. The kindness shown after her brief discussion with this stranger is a great contrast with other brutalities among families.
Interesting too HOW Mrs. Armstid came upon that money (and Mr. Armstid admitting he had no claim to it that he reckoned it was her money to do with as she would.)
Mod
"My, my. A body does get around."
All right, as we've started to discuss the book in earnest, I would like to say something that I read about Faulkner's style for those who find it difficult to weather. This will surely dovetail with the notion of reading Faulkner as a mystery writer. Robert Penn Warren once referenced Conrad Aiken when he said of Faulkner's style:"Faulkner has exhibited a concern very much like James's concern with fictional organization. His [Faulkner's:] movement has not been linear, but spiral, passing over the same point again and again, but at different altitudes."
After reading this passage from Warren, it is already easy to see what is meant by the spiral effect of Faulkner's style, starting with the central image of the column of smoke rising to the sky in the first chapters. Faulkner revisits that image again and again until the the altitude of perspective is right inside the Burden house, reported by Byron Bunch from the tale of Joe Brown.
Shelby wrote: "Well, if we're getting started, I'm going to start with one of my favorite early passages about identity on page 33 of my edition (Vintage International, the gold one):And that was the first time..."
Shel, thank you for posting this little bit about identity here. I too love that passage. One of the favorite descriptions I've ever read of a character is the one given by Faulkner regarding Joe Christmas:
"He looked like a tramp, yet not like a tramp either. His shoes were dusty and his trousers were soiled too. But they were of decent serge, sharply creased, and his shirt was soiled but it was a white shirt, and he wore a tie and a stiffbrim straw hat that was quite new, cocked at an angle arrogant and baleful above his still face. He did not look like a professional hobo in his professional rags, but there was something definitely rootless about him, as though nor city was his, no street, no square of earth his home. And that he carried this knowledge with him always as though it were a banner, with a quality ruthless, lonely, and almost proud."
It's amazing to me how much Faulkner can make description discuss the actual character or soul of a character in his work. The identity of Joe Christmas is one of the most intriguing things about the novel for me and I look forward to discussing it further down the line!
Mod
Let's try it in Four Parts:
Part I -- Chapters 1 through 5
Part II -- Chapter 6 through 10
Part III -- Chapters 11 through 15
Part IV -- Chapters 16 through 21
Two questions I'll pose upfront for the reading group:
1. What's your experience of reading? (And for anyone old enough to have met Faulker, well that'd be nice to hear about too!)
2. What's your expectation of reading this book by Faulkner?
I'm thinking if we all have a baseline of understanding from Faulknerite to Faulknerphobe it might help inform our discussion a bit.