Between the Wars discussion

When you're finished and want to discuss the book freely....

******Contains Spoilers***********

I've read this book a few times and watched the movie, but today something occurred to me that I hadn't thought of before. I just read the scene at the train station with the "bear" -- Rose begins her relationship with the Cottons with a lie. This really is the way she conducts the whole relationship with everyone from this point on, and here it is laid out for us.

I'm so enjoying this novel. What a wonderful scene where they swim in the moat around the castle by moonlight!

I'm just reading the dinner scene and enjoying Neil's American manners!

I get such a chuckle out of her descriptions of their poverty - like having to shake off after baths because they don't have real towels! It's sad of course, but she's not asking for pity.

It must have been longer than I thought since I read it -- I had forgotten so many details of the novel. I had forgotten all those references to Jane Austen -- and the story starts out very Austenian with the daughters without a comfortable future ahead of them and the arrival of the wealthy men.

And they are so poor without food or clothes -- not even a bath robe or clothes to go to town in. I know it is entertaining irony that they inherit Aunt Millicent's clothes, but I think she was an old bitty to have given them such an inheritance. Was that just a slap? Thinking that you might have inherited something nice or at least a few pounds ready cash and basically you are left to clean up the trunks in her old empty house.

I know it makes a funny set up for the bear coat scene Jeannette was talking about, but it is too close to reality to not get me riled about it. Aunt Milly punishes two poor motherless girls for their father marrying a model. And did she not leave Thomas a drop?

You know at the end of the scene though, Cassandra imagines Aunt Mill once a young girl dancing, and it made her wonder what she would be like as an old woman. I bet she leaves a decent inheritance!

Oh, I could probably look it up, but does it give an exact year for the setting?

And I was so interested in that kitchen setting. It was so interesting. And the stove. I think I could tell by the illustration in the book what the fender was, but what was the copper of the stove? Is that just the top? That was interesting they said the Victorians had wrecked the house by putting ceilings everywhere and painting faux wood grain, apparently over the natural wood!

I don't know for sure if they mention a year, it is post-WWI, for sure. I think the copper is a big kettle (bigger than a tea kettle) for heating water.

I think Auntie M was just a stingy woman with her nieces and nephews. She cut Mortmain off and that was that. I suppose the coats had sentimental value and maybe the clothes,too. At least they got a free trip to London.

*********SPOILER*************

I really like Neil and almost wish he had fallen for Cassandra, even though it is obvious she is meant for Simon. Any thoughts on why Simon kisses her?

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I may be overlooking it totally, but on p 141 of my edition, it just refers to their time as the 1930s.

Auntie M still not forgiven. :)

The kiss -- one of the best parts of the story. It seems such a genuine thing among the things going on that were not genuine. He told her it was a "kiss in her own right." At that point he was feeling a true affection for her. I think an honest impulse on his part.

*********Spoiler************

I've finished the book (the ending is wonderfully written). Do you think Simon will report back? Will everyone have their happy ending?

I certainly wish it for them, but it seems so doubtful.

Cassandra is a good character, isn't she?

So, what do you think? Will Simon come back to her?

**************Spoiler
I think Simon will have to deal with his feelings of the broken relationship with Rose. Which may be that much harder since Rose is with his brother. And since Cass is Rose's sister, it may hard to build a life with Cass.

And on Cass's part, I don't think she needs him to come back any time soon. She doesn't know that she feels real love for him -- she is young and she has just now decided she really wants to write. Also, my take on Cass is that, even though she FEELS love for him now, she is a practical character. She's the one who said, "no bathroom on earth will make up for marrying a bearded man you hate." (when Rose was in awe of Mrs. Cotton's bathroom) Isn't that a great line? I think this is the girl Cass really is and she won't give that person up for Simon or anyone else -- and she doesn't need him until she has lived a lot. Well, she lived a darned lot in this novel, but you know what I mean.

Sarah wrote: "**************Spoiler
I think Simon will have to deal with his feelings of the broken relationship with Rose. Which may be that much harder since Rose is with his brother. And since Cass is Rose'..."

Yes, she lived a lot in a short time, and I would say she grew up, but she already was quite mature in many ways. I like to think they will get together (my hopeless romantic side), but Cass is young and she has the better chance of moving on. Of course, she seems fiercely loyal and there aren't a lot of opportunities out there in her little village....

Just finished, and I definitely think that Simon and Cassandra will get together. He needs to get over Rose, but is already enamoured with Cass, and she needs time to experience and enjoy a larger world and come to him as a more mature woman. I think that Simon was already conflicted about his feelings when he kissed Cass. Perhaps the first bloom of fascination with Rose was wearing thin - after all, he was beginning to think that they had little in common. It was that evening when he said "What a pity Rose doesn't like music". When Cass said she did, he must have wondered why Rose didn't seem to when she was with him. Simon appreciates Cass's intelligence and can talk easily to her, whereas there was no real bond with Rose. In fact, I can't understand what it is about her that so fascinated men. Just her beauty? She didn't seem to have much else.

Anyway, when Cass says at the end that "I'd love to see America if ever the circumstances were - well favourable" she is telling him that they have a chance, but it can't be on the rebound.

Yes, Gabriele, no rebounds for Cassandra! You can tell I really liked this character. This novel has really struck me more than it did the first time I read it and I am enjoying the characters.

I like the overlying sense of literature and writing. James is a writer of course, Stephen sends Cassandra the poems, Simon writes essays, and you feel Cassandra will pretty much dedicate her life to writing. I think this makes it an unusual coming of age story -- to be so literary.

Which is just enhanced by the story being told via journal entries. (Was the father's name James? How did I miss that?)

I know, I loved her journal. And she finally decides to give it up and write about other people. I also went back and reread the part where she decides to give up the dressmaker's dummy Miss Blossom. I thought that was sad actually (!) but a good part of the story.

Maybe I made that up that his name was James! Was that from another book?! Ok, I just looked it up -- Chap V when he is introduced to the Cottons and that is his name. He wrote the book Jacob Wrestling -- they might have mentioned a few times! ha ha

It is a wonder we didn't think his name was Jacob Wrestling!

LOL, Sarah! I kept thinking of him as Jacob, although I knew it wasn't his name. I had also missed that it was James, Jeannette.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the movie again, since it's been a while. And honestly, I didn't remember enough to spoil the enjoyment of the book. Those senior moments!

So, Gabriele. which do you prefer, the book or the movie version?

You can climb into a novel and luxuriate there for days, while movies transport you for only a short time. Isn't it fun when we can have both?!

I think the only movie that I've preferred over the book is Bright Young Things vs. Vile Bodies.

I liked the novel best. I think the movie cast didn't match up with my vision of the characters at all. Although Romola and Bill Nighy were very good.

I really liked the movie, but I think they added too much emphasis on sex. All of those scenes with Simon in a towel coming out of the bath -- they were really more humorous than serious. I did like the cast, but I saw the movie before I read the book.

I have so enjoyed reading this again and had forgotten that the cat and dog were named Abelard and Heloise. A reminder of doomed great loves.

Your post deserves more comment, but with limited time I did want to say I liked the open end of the story also. I like stories that describe a time in transition for a character, but don't try to tie things up too neatly.

Also I thought Topaz was a standout for the fact of being so caring to the Mortmain family and Stephen. They are an odd family, but trying to hold it together during the hard times, and Topaz seems largely responsible for that.

Very nice summary Fiona. One of the things I liked about the book was the way the author drew this large cast of eccentric characters that were very believable. She helped us to see the many facets of their personalities; they were never just stereotypes or cardboard cut-out figures. Even the minor players were well-drawn. I especially liked the vicar and his attempts to mentor Cassandra.

There was a recurring theme of unrequited love, too. Simon for Rose, Cassandra for Simon, Stephen for Cassandra and even Neil and Topaz suffered for love, even though they both won in the end. I am undecided about Simon and Cassandra, but you are probably correct about her outgrowing him.

I think that what makes books really memorable and special is the characters - how real and believable they are and how emotionally engaged we become with them. Plots can fade from memory, but great characters stay with you.

In addition to Cassandra being so engaging, I also liked that fact that she and the others were not predictable - as you said, Jeannette, not stereotypes.

Thank you for recommending this book - I had never heard of it and really enjoyed it. The characters were multidimensional and none was entirely bad or good. Even Mortmain was a good person despite his severe case of writer's block (he was always worried about having hurt Cassandra in the latter parts of the book).

I am also in the Stephen camp but I can see why Cassandra saw him only in a sisterly way. Perhaps as he gets more sophisticated, he will become a better conversationalist and be a better match for her.

As for the parts about their poverty, having grown up poor myself, I think children feel of its effects less if they have kind parents (Topaz was a great stepmother; I actually loved her eccentricities). I met a lady who lived through the Dutch winter of 1944, when people were starving there. She said that despite this, it was a fun time for her and her siblings. Their parents did all the worrying and the kids learned to live with less. Also, now that I have a job and am no longer short on money, I find that I am not as creative.

Anyhow, thanks again for choosing this great book!

I'm glad you enjoyed the book. It really is a sweet story with well-drawn characters. What an interesting perspective you have towards growing up in poverty. We didn't have a lot when I was a kid, either, but I didn't notice is so much. We always did have fun just playing in the yard.

If you haven't seen it, the film version of ICtC is also very good. It is pretty faithful to the book, too. It is rated "R" only because we get a glimpse of Topaz out in nature!

my books keep reminding me of one another. I finished Villette the other day and here I am reading I Capture the Castle and ICtC refers directly to Villette. It is the part when it is muddy out and Cassandra is heading to the Vicar's home to look at his music. She says "... I found myself wondering if it would be a relief to confess to someone, as Lucy Snowe did in Villette."

The themes of loneliness and a longing to communicate and be truly "heard" runs through both novels.

Another reason to try Villette. The one Bronte books I haven't read.

So glad you've joined our discussion, Oana. I found your comment about being less creative interesting.

Now that the Olympics are over, I really must get a copy of the movie!

Yes, now that the Olympics are over, I can do other stuff (I'm not a sports person but Vancouver was the most fun it's ever been). Our local library has a copy for loan, so I shall have to get that soon!

Oana wrote: "Yes, now that the Olympics are over, I can do other stuff (I'm not a sports person but Vancouver was the most fun it's ever been). Our local library has a copy for loan, so I shall have to get tha..."

Neither am I! I never watch hockey, but did last week, and yesterday, of course. I feel as if I'm in Olympics withdrawal now. : )

I know, I was pretty sad today! I went to get myself a couple of the mascot toys and the stores are nearly cleaned out. Life seems kind of boring now. :)

We filled the Olympics gap by watching "Groundhog Day" with Bill Murray. I'm happy to report that it was as funny as I remembered!