The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of February 1st through February 7th, we are reading the last 38 pages of No Ordinary Time by Doris Kearns Goodwin.

This is the last assigned week of reading.

The fifteenth and last week's assignment is:

February
February 1 – February 7 ~~ Chapter 24 – 25 (595 – 633)
Chapter Twenty-Four – “Everybody Is Crying” – page 595
Chapter Twenty-Five – “A New Country Is Being Born” – page 616


We have opened up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This thread should only deal with this chapter and these pages. No spoilers, please.

Discussion on these sections will begin today February 1st.

Welcome,

Bentley

TO SEE ALL PREVIOUS WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL








Doris Kearns Goodwin

The ending remarks of DKG "No Ordinary Time" were very well done.

I was one when FDR died but certainly was well aware of Eleanor Roosevelt in my teenage years.

I am a bit curious if DKG being a woman did not make her better able to discourse on the gains for women and minorities than a man might have been.

I am curious if anyone can recommend a biography of FDR with some commentary on why. I think that a separate one on him would be interesting (if one can find the time).

I have to agree that without FDR maybe the Axis would have won the war – without FDR we would not have become the world leader we were after the war and seem to be up to today –

Maybe Obama needs to have cocktails every evening……….. Maybe I need to have cocktails every evening.

It is a wonderful book – along with the Lincoln book we just read – helps to show/explain/document how America became what it was from the second half of the last century on.

Maybe we should think of another DKG book in the future. Her Johnson book could be of interest but I think that Robert Cato’s series could also be of interest but there are three books already done and he is working on the next one now (final one I think).

Vince, I think a woman like DKG would be interested more in the gains of women and minorities versus let us say an Ellis writing the same book.

I think we all need cocktails every evening..only kidding.

Yes, loads of great books out there but I will look into your recommendation for our growing list.

Bentley

Vince: The ending remarks of DKG "No Ordinary Time" were very well done.
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I agree.

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Vince: Maybe Obama needs to have cocktails every evening……….. Maybe I need to have cocktails every evening.
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lol. :)

Chapter 24.- Everybody is crying -

I have to admit I got a little teary eyed myself.

p601- I added to my quote jnl this one from FDR.
"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today. let us move forward with strong and active faith."

Chapter 25
"Mrs. Roosevelt was more concerned about people being swept under the national rug due to injustice than she was about someone finding dirt under the White House rug." --WH butler Alonzo Fields

The perfect description of Eleanor.

Even though the whole Lucy episode and also the Japanese internment are a blot on his legacy. I still wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment expressed on page 605.
"But in the big things- all the things that were of real, permanent importance-he never let the people down."
and on page 610
"But in the end, Roosevelt's strengths far outweighed his weaknesses."

p606
"Men will thank God on their knees a hundred years form now, that FDR was in the White House" NY Times.

I really felt this sentiment when I read
The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope by Jonathan Alter. I gave DKG 5 stars but Alter's book still is #1 with me.

p606 "Churchill once said that to encounter Franklin Roosevelt, with all his buoyant sparkle, his iridescent personality, and his inner elan was like opening your first bottle of champagne."

Who has a better way with words than Churchill ?

Page 621
"Ten weeks later, Churchill was unceremoniously swept out of office..."

Wow...Why did the British do that?

page 625 "The middle class had emerged.

Stats I believe show it has been steadily shrinking. :( Some think, and I agree, that this portends a bleak future for our democracy.

I want to thank you all. Reading this book with you was great fun. And Bentley... I did catch up with you all ! LOL. :)

Great to see that you are caught up. If you get a chance to visit the wonderful Churchill Museum in London..possibly you will find out more about how the English people were feeling...to us it was great disloyalty and a blow to the one person along with FDR who pulled them up by the bootstraps and helped them save themselves be thrown out unceremoniously. Churchill has always been one of my favorites and I love his command of the language.

Alias Reader wrote: "

Chapter 24.- Everybody is crying -

I have to admit I got a little teary eyed myself.

p601- I added to my quote jnl this one from FDR.
"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our..."

Hi Alias

I think that this book was for me a better read than the Alter book but it has a much bigger scope to work on.

I do beleive that Churchill was put out because he really wanted to restore the "pre-War" England and the people wanted more social supports - he also wanted to maintain the Empire which maybe was not a big factor in the election but I am sure it mattered.

Also, of course, the Brits don't vote directly for a Prime Minister so it wasn't a direct defeat of Churchill.

Vince: I do beleive that Churchill was put out because he really wanted to restore the "pre-War" England and the people wanted more social supports - he also wanted to maintain the Empire which maybe was not a big factor in the election but I am sure it mattered.

Also, of course, the Brits don't vote directly for a Prime Minister so it wasn't a direct defeat of Churchill.
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Thank you, Vince. I didn't know any of this. That explains a lot. DKG, should have written what you just did ! Without the explanation, I think it is a bit misleading.

Since she was remiss, I am going to add your explanation in the blank pages in the back of my book.

Thanks !

This is my second DKG book. I had read prior to this one. I really respect her ability to conduct painstaking research so that she gives a well-rounded view in her presentation of the facts. DKG has no agenda, in my opinion, except to inform, and that's a good thing.

The US and many others outside of the US were bereft over the passing of FDR, regardless of political affiliation. I wonder if there would be the same groundswell of sorrow if Obama were to pass while or in office, or if George Bush had. Is it me, or have we become meaner as Americans over the last decade?

I was personally surprised as to how filthy the White House was while the Roosevelts lived there. Shouldn't they have had help of some sort? I would have thought so with all of the traveling that Eleanor did that there would have been housekeepers in White House, and I'm sure that the White House is not a residence that one can keep up with with simple weekly cleanings - lol.

Overall, another DKG masterpiece. I enjoyed reading this one with the group and sharing ideas.

Now I am off to Jefferson...

Sera - you raise some interesting points..I think we have become meaner overall and very brittle about other points of views. I think folks start mirroring talk radio and television commentators who shout and yell at each other and maybe television and the type of behavior one watches has not raised the level of discourse or tolerance; but has lowered it.

I think sometimes that we are a careless nation...not accustomed to the sacrifices that our grandparents and parents had to make.

Don't forget to always add the author's link:

Doris Kearns Goodwin

Regarding cleaning of the White House..it seems to me that the household should be taken care on with much care as this is the house of our president who represents our country overseas and in that house when they visit.

The depression could have had something to do with the state of affairs but we cannot know for sure.

Good points, Bentley, and the point about the Depression is not one that I had considered. You could be right - maybe everyone was tightening up on spending, even though we generally don't think of the government in those terms :)

Very true Sera.

Sera wrote: "This is my second DKG book. I had read prior to this one. I really respect her ability to conduct painstaking research so ..."

Just a couple of comments about the mourning of FDR from my point of view.

First of all he was president for 13 years - leading people thru the depression and having initiated a new role for the governement to help the people and make it work - it pretty much consistently got better under Roosevelt.
Then he was the regular house guests of all Americans for his fireside chats - a closeness never before achieved and with current technology - technilogical closeness to too common.
Also he led America thru the only war in his century that actually threatened the existence of the country - and he was winning.
And as DKG stated he was the only president ever for a considerable percentage of the Americans.
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About the cleanliness of the White House - well - they were busy - and there were those cocktails every night so maybe it was just a bit fuzzy.

True after a few cocktails they may not have noticed (smile)

Since we have neared the end of our journey with this wonderful book; I just want to thank all of you who participated and I really enjoyed the lively discussion of the group.

I just came across this youtube video of the funeral of Eleanor Roosevelt. So many dignitaries attended this event at Hyde Park including President John F. Kennedy and his wife Jacqueline Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman and his wife, Adlai Stevenson, Vice President Lyndon Johnson and many others. Adlai Stevenson spoke as did the President (Kennedy) during that event. You might find it interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnBmue...

Here is a cute photo with FDR and his grandson.

Curtis Roosevelt

Here is one with Anna his daughter and her two children (Allie and Curtis), Sara Delano Roosevelt (FDR's mother) and FDR:


http://www.abouttownguide.com/dutches...

FDR and family in happier times:



This photo was taken in 1919 in Washington...he does have a grimace on his face though..yet the women and the kids look reasonably happy.

Bentley wrote: "FDR and family in happier times:



This photo was taken in 1919 in Washington...he does have a grimace on his face though..yet the women and the kids look reasonably happy."

I think the Thanks goes to you Mr. Bentley

You are very welcome Vince. I enjoyed it very much.

I did finish the book on time, but am a little remiss in catching up with reading comments, and making my own comments.

I agree with Vince that the ending of NOT was very well done. I had been wondering how Goodwin would handle it. There was so much of the war to be wrapped up by Truman, it would be easy to get bogged down in it. And so many years left of Eleanor's life. Yet Goodwin pulled it off, and I didn't feel anything was missing.

I liked Goodwin's tributes to both FDR and Eleanor. Great summaries of great lives. I especially enjoyed the parts that they worked on together, as a team. They made a strong team.

I will definitely look to read more of Goodwin's books in the future.

Bentley wrote: "Sera - you raise some interesting points..I think we have become meaner overall and very brittle about other points of views. I think folks start mirroring talk radio and television commentators w..."

I think you are right, Bentley. Both more mean and more brittle. We complain about our children having unworthy heros in sports or entertainment figures who do drugs or whine or whatever. And yet the adults are often emulating these commentators who don't seem to know what used to be common courtesy. In so many ways we have moved forward, but in these areas I long for the olden days.

I join with everyone else in thanking you, Bentley, for conducting this ride through No Ordinary Time. It has been a good one. I look forward to moving back in history to The First World War. :)

by and then by John Keegan

You are welcome. Moving back in history started earlier than I intended (smile)..I was just doing set up and then grew tired and thought that I closed the thread down even though I was intending to open it up a couple days in advance; but I hadn't so it took off; so I decided who am I to get on the track in front of a moving train. So I continued to just open it up early. We are still abiding by the same schedule so nothing is lost really. Happy to have you any time you are ready to join the discussion.

I wondered how that happened. lol. Those moving trains are dangerous, but nothing compared with those discussing history buffs! The trick is to jump on the moving train without loosing a limb...

I am not sure where to put this but here is a presentation on Francis Perkins coming this Sunday to the NY Society for Etihcal Culture for any who might be interested.

Sunday Meeting - 11:15 a.m. - Ceremonial Hall
"The Woman Behind the New Deal"
Kirstin Downey, Author

Frances Perkins, a New Yorker who witnessed the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, wrote the state’s fire safety code, helped steer the New York State Industrial Commission from 1918 to 1932, and was named U.S. Secretary of Labor by Franklin D. Roosevelt in the depths of the Great Depression.

The nation’s first female cabinet secretary, Perkins spearheaded the fight to improve the lives of America’s working people. Her ideas became the cornerstones of the most important social welfare legislation in the nation’s history, including unemployment compensation, child labor laws, and the 40-hour work week. Oddly, however, despite her prodigious achievements, today her name is almost unknown.

Kirstin Downey, an award-winning writer at the Washington Post for 20 years, will explore Perkins’ remarkable life and discuss her surprising drop into obscurity. Downey’s work has focused on illuminating the human implications of important financial trends, particularly the boom-and-bust cycles characteristic of our modern economy.

In 2007, she shared in the Pulitzer Prize awarded to the Washington Post staff for its coverage of the campus slayings at Virginia Tech. She left the paper in 2008 to write The Woman Behind the New Deal: The Life of Frances Perkins, FDR’s Secretary of Labor and His Moral Conscience.

Thank you Vince...you may want to place this as well in the Community Forum so that more people see it. Sounds great.