Flight 815-ers Unite discussion

I have my theories here. We have seen in a recent episode that Ben can summon the black smoke, but it would appear he holds no real control over it. (hense the barriers on the perimeter of 'Othertown' and his direction to the losties to stick to the treeline when he released it)

What is your take on it? What is it? Who truely controls it? What does it mean to the island?

I'm still waiting for answer on Echo's relationship with the smoke. For a long time he seemed to understand it, or at least have a grudging truce with it. Then out of the blue it killed him. What's up with that?

I have no explanation but I can't wait until one is given.It's very mysterious.Some sort of device\entity that protects the island but has no intelligence or discernment so ultimately a dangerous weapon to use?

here are some spookey images i pulled from a site of the black smoke looks like it might be some kind of ghost of a few people, Http://www.rickey.org/?p=923

Wow! That was interesting and enlightening. It looked like images from Ekko's past, maybe. Maybe the smoke is different for each person, pulling out the worst of you until you die.

I think this smoke is intelligent.

Ben = Smokey

You think Ben is smokey? As in, he can change into it?

I just had this weird thought after Sayid shot Ben the other night. We always hear those weird whispers in the jungle, Harper pops up out of nowhere once, Walt pops up out of nowhere once, Eko's brother popped up, and now Christian. Then Ben told his people to go to the Temple, which seems to be where Smokey comes from. So my thought was: maybe Smokey is something like the conglomerate of people who have died on the island or are somehow intimately connected to it.

So maybe Ben is Smokey. Maybe Ben is one form that Smokey takes.

huh. Interesting, but then how did Ben get off the island? I dont think Smokey can leave. And I am certain that Christian is life and blood, alive and well, on the island.

Now, I do think Ben has POWER over Smokey. Remember, he released it on the frieghter people last season.

I had forgotten about the release on the freighter people. But I don't know one way or the other whether Smokey can leave the Island. Richard can leave, and I think he could be another form Smokey takes. (He is such a mystery.) Nor am I certain that Christian is life and blood, alive and well, on the Island. He's too mysterious and has appeared too conveniently a couple of times.

Smokey lives under the temple. Maybe it is a conglomeration of all of the souls of the ancients who first inhabited the island and when someone dies on the island they are incorporated.

Exactly! You said exactly what I'm thinking and in a much more coherent way. (Of course, that's assuming that Ben died when Sayid shot him . . . ) Maybe that's why Richard never ages?

I think that Richard is a smokey, as he never ages, which means he is dead, But Ben is ageing, so he can't be dead.

Christian could be alive. He could have come back to life when he got to the island just like Locke did - and that's why his casket was empty.

Christian could be alive, but the factor that weighs so heavily against that for me is how he knows so much about the Island. Way more than Locke or Jack or even Ben seems to know. For me, that puts him more on par with Richard than with Locke.

I believe that Richard is life and blood too.
They know alot because I think they are deeply tied into the island... as in, been there for a long time, as in, a very long time.... I think time traveling has effects on their aging.

Don't you hear what that French guy said? You know, old what's-his-face? It's a security system guarding the temple.
Unless he's lying.

Also is Smokey a supernatural phenomenon or a very advanced weapon system? I'm guessing the first one. Unless if it's the second one.



Logan said:
I'm still waiting for answer on Echo's relationship with the smoke. For a long time he seemed to understand it, or at least have a grudging truce with it. Then out of the blue it killed him. What's up with that?


It's been 3 years and they never answered that one.

Also Eko's last word was 'you're next'. Was he talking about the monster killing Locke or all Oceanic 815ers?

OK.
So last night shed some light on Smokey. He judges you. He shows you your sin(s) and awaits your reaction. If you are truely sorry and repentant for them, he gives you an ultimatium. "Stay in line. Follow the Leader. Or die."

For Eko, Smokey showed him his sins. Then took the form of Yemmy, and asked him to repent. Eko refused. And the Island judged him unworthy, thus taking his life.

For Ben, he was truely sorry before ever being judged, and it was an honest and heartwrenching apology he gave Alex (Smokey).... and the island allowed him to live, bearing the rules it laid out for him.

To set the record straight, I still think Christian is unrelated to Smokey. I think Harper may have been a manifestion of Smokey, but Im not 100% on that.

I think Smokey was Jacks original vision of his father in the jungle (leading him to his open casket), Hurleys imaginary friend Dave, Kates Horse in the jungle, and Sawyers pig on the beach.

The reason I think this is simple. They were all things that connected the losties to the real world. It was the most unobtrusive way for Smokey to make contact with them. And then.... get ready for it... they all shortly came up on JACOBS LIST!!! All of them. So it was determining their usefulness/worthyness... what have you.

I LIKE it Lori!

thank you. ive been cooking that theory up for quite awhile!
:)

Hmmmh.

See, my theory for Ben kidnapping Jack. Kate and Sawyer is this:

Ben wants to Jack to operate the tumor in his spine. But he knows no chance in hell Jack will do it voluntarily. To manipulate him Ben uses A, Juliet and B, Kate and Sawyer 'cause Ben knows of the love triangle.

Also Shephard, as Picket said, is not even in Jacob's list.
Picket is a dead Other, btw. Sun shot him.

I think the colors are true to their deeds. I think Jacob is good/God (fair hair and light clothing), the Man in Black is then evil/Devil (dark hair and clothing)... Ben is just a puppet. I think Richard is far far more than being a sidekick. I think he may have "sold his soul" in some way/shape/form or is in debted to Jacob and that is how he was appointed the guardian or advisor of the island.

Still havent really come up with any theory for Smokey except that I think it is a form of judgement...

I agree about Jacob being the good guy. Even when he showed up in all the Losties flashbacks, he seemed to be helping them in one way or another.

Gene wrote: "here are some spookey images i pulled from a site of the black smoke looks like it might be some kind of ghost of a few people, Http://www.rickey.org/?p=923"

Wow!! How awesome. Thanks for sharing that Gene.

I think Jacob is evil too. Which I dont like thinking because I want to think the island is a good force and Jacob is clearly the top man there.

But I think Richard is good (although dead since he never ages)and I cant wait to find out what is really going on with him, they need to write way more about him!

Im still really confused about smokey, but like all your ideas and agree with them all in some way :).

i have been thinking again about smokey, and i think i will go back to my original theory about smokey entering Locke's dead body in order to convince Ben to kill jacob, i know it souunds impossible due to the fact that smokey appeared for a few secs in some scenes, but i still think that smokey had a part in the killing of jacob, i think that the man in the season finale that was sitting with jacob and telling him that he wanted him dead is maybe smokey or maybe he turned into smokey after he was killed or maybe even cursed, this explains maybe why jacob's cabin was surrounded by that black powder, maybe it was a deterrent from demons in our case smokey. So if it was a deterrent from smokey then smokey's only move was to invade a dead body, in order to exploite his revenge upon jacob. This is the only theory that makes some sense, but then again i could be wrong.

i know what your thinking, how could smokey do this if in other episodes it lasts a few secs, well here is my other theory for that, remember when ben was in the temple and he saw his dead daughter, which ofcourse might have been smokey. well i think that smokey needed a way to make ben listen to john, so he slipped into Ben's dead daughter ordered Ben to listen to john or there will be consequences, and ofcourse ben agrees because he has no choice. if locke went up to ben and told him to kill jacob then i think ben would not do it because locke is not the boss, but if smokey sends him a strong message to listen to locke then ben would have no choice but to listen.

i think smokey manifests itself into what you need to see...
kate seeing the horse, eko seeing his brother, jack seeing his father...and most importantly Locke...
dead is dead. the writers had ben emphasize that...they do those things on purpose.... i think that they will reveal/find Locke's actual dead body and realize that the "person" they have been with is not really him...its just a manifistation just as all the other weird sightings, and i think that they are all connected to smokey.

♥•Al•♥ wrote: "Hmmm...these are really good theories and I agree with you guys. It is very possible....

I was thinking the other night, and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Ben tell someone that he made Ja..."

it's not that he doesnt think he's real, jacob has never "shown" himself to ben...in a sense that he was/looked like a human...for all we know, jocob could just be a smokey manifestation...or even another alias for a different character...who knows...LOST keeps you thinking lol

(sigh....) now i really want to watch it....few more months...few more months....

Gene, SMokey didnt enter Lockes body, becuase as Locke is in Jacobs home, attempting to kill him, we see his dead body turned out of the crate on the beach, remember.

While I do think that Smokey shape shifts (as Ive mentioned many many times) into things that have a connection to people - Kate/horse, Jack/dad, Sawyer/Pig, Eko/Yemi, Ben/Alex - I do not think he actually enters a dead body and animates it.

I also do not think he shape shifts into these visions for extended periods of time.

I think the man in black is a separate entity from smokey, and did exactly what Jacob said he did - found a loophole! How and why and what the specifics are, well.... we shall see that this coming season, wont we?

I, like you all, adore the way this show makes us all think and discuss what he saw and believe.

Funny how we all watch the same episodes but each see something different.

Well, time to eat my words, which, funnily enough - are in the post directly above this one! HAhahahaa

Smokey CAN hold a shape for extended periods of time. Wouldja lookitat!

And it appears smokey and Richard have a secret little past... "nice to see you out of those chains"... hmmmmm.....

i was shocked that i was right, that was crazy

i actually saw the whole thing in the videos days before the premiere...that was the spoiler, but i guess it was pulled to not spoil everyone.

Well, partly... because you said smokey "slips into dead bodies" which was clearly not the case becuase smokey/Locke walked right past dead Locke....

But the shape shifting being a full time thing threw me for a loop (ha - get it, loop? loophole? ha)

hahah i got it

remember when smokey killed those guys with guns? well remember when that one guy surrounded himself with ash to protect himself, but smokey killed him anyway, well maybe now it doesnt matter anymore, smokey can who took form of Locke can travel anywhere...just another theory i am throwing out there i dont know what it means...i am just guessing at this point

Smokey couldnt touch Bram while he was in the circle, so it crashed into the ceiling. When a part of the ceiling came down, Bram lost his balance and left the circle, and that was when Smokey attacked.

regarding the whole Richard thing, i saw somewhere the idea that perhaps Richard was locked up somehow on the ship when it wrecked on the island, and that's where the reference to chains comes from.

i also read last night, on cnn i think, that we're going to get the whole Richard back story, according to CC and DL.

Nice. I love Richard and can't wait for his backstory.

Me, too! I want to know more about Richard. I am very curious about these chains.

Also, do we keep calling the Locke on the Island "Locke"? Or do we call him Smokey now? or the Man in Black? or perhaps the Smokey Monster-Man in Black In the Guise of John Locke?

hahah.. Rachel. Ive taken to calling island Locke Smokey-Locke....

Haha, Smokey-Locke is perfect! It's to-the-point and distinct from Wheelchair-Locke, who is now off-island. That itself is interesting - Clearly Jack is going to try and "fix" Locke. :)

I couldnt picture Jack being any other way... this is the untainted Jack... the Jack who still cares... I want to see how that plays out too!

I loved the part where Sawyer helped Kate to escape. And I think our heros are going to meet each other somehow. like Clare-Kate-Aharon, Jack-John... this alternate reality even can show who was right after all` John-fate or Jack-logic.

I missed the beginining of the premier because I had school,UGH!! I cant believe they moved it to Tuesday night, what the sh*t?!

But somebody told me in the begining they showed the island, under water??

I wasnt happy with Sawyer and Kate meeting up, Im still fuming over Juliette dying!!!!! She was much better for Sawyer. And if Kate hadnt come back into the pictures, they could have lived happily ever after.

i think her death is how it was meant to be, if you think about it, they came back to find their hatch blown up, so it was like a sideways travel or something like that maybe be i am wrong

Now, in the time they find the hatch blown up, Juliet isn't dead and Others are still in their village, right?