Philip K Dick discussion

what aspect do you find compelling in Dick's works? i'm thinking about his spiritual quest as in Valis, and some of other aspects like his reflection on reality (like in Ubik and Time out of Joint). don't hestitate to share your ideas. i'm really looking forwards to them.

For me, Dick's oddball alternative spirituality was always compelling. For a while, I was oddly fascinated by the fact that he always seemed to have the same two female characters in his books, until I read that this was on purpose.

The fact that there's something obviously... damaged about Dick's work does hold a strange attraction to me. Such a brilliant mind, but tracing the same avenues over and over again. There are ideas he can't let go of, that get developed slowly from novel to novel. I don't think I've ever seen another author who operates the way he did.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post. I kind of had a lot of ideas all at once.

thank you Matt. actually we could develop the idea you provided. you mentioned about the female characters..hmm do you mean that dark hair girl repeatedly appears in many of his novel, perhaps? i've heard about the story about Dick's childhood that his mother used to tell him that his twin sister has dark hair. That might be the reason, I guess. And by narrating the stories, he keeps doing this as a way to remember her. I've also heard someone mentioned about the idea of phantom twin. Have you ever heard of that? It is like, somehow, his twin sister really exists within him. (~creepy)

I'm still looking forwards to further discussion with everyone!

I know that Wilkie Collins believed he had a doppleganger. I'd never heard about PKD's twin.

Oh man... now I'm going to have to research this again.I was doing some preliminary research for a paper about a decade ago, and decided to see what had been written about Dick's relationship with women. One of the weaknesses in his lesser works, I've always thought, is his tendency to have the same two female characters: a younger, sexy, and relatively innocent woman that the main character is interested in and an older, smarter, but somewhat evil woman. "Confessions of a Crap Artist" is a really good example, if I remember correctly.

The thing is, what I found is that PKD knew he was doing this. He was basing the characters on two figures out of literature, but I can't remember for the life of me who they were. Not something that everyone's read, but nothing obscure either. I'll get back if I can uncover it again.

I don't know Wilkie Collins had a double ever before. I might as well do the research on that too.

About PKD. well...i don't think Jane (his twin sister) appears to him as his doppleganger. Yet the idea of doppleganger appears largely in his novel Valis (you know, Philip K Dick and Horselover Fat) But she (Jane) might as well be that too. back to the first point, I think in many ways Dick appears to have nothing in commons with those two female characters. He's a man. Unless someone argues that well Dick has hidden his feminine side. in that case, we have to look upon these female characters of his in a total different ways (personally, I think this is getting like Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code that presents a weird theory about Da Vinci painting Mona Lisa as his female portrait).

If you've ever read Valis, you might find lots of interesting points about Dick's relationship (or in the book it is Horselover Fat) with women. The book is his reflection on his personal life and his spiritual quest. I don't know if you would find this too, but I think Dick links Sophia and his twin sister together. (I want to understand about gnosticism in PKD's works too but I'm afraid that would take like years to understand it..hehe) I just had a personal conclusion about this that Dick tends to see his dead twin sister as a channel to contact with god. (???)

What do you think?

What i always like about PKD is the way he writes stories around human relationships,dramas. His reflection on what is reality and what is human is very compelling.

The fact he writes same themes,certain characters over and over suggests something about the man behind the writer. Specially about the women he writes about. They feel more real,less dated than other older SF. Having read introductions about his real relationships with women you see why.

I like PK Dick because he's a mis-categorised sci-fi author who writes about "personal horror" like nobody since Kafka!

:)

Mike wrote: "I like PK Dick because he's a mis-categorised sci-fi author who writes about "personal horror" like nobody since Kafka!

:)"

Personal horror ? How do you mean ?

I think PKD could write about anything and makes it interesting. He could make a human story of out anything. Thats why i dont even doubt that i will read his non-genre books eventually.

I think the "personal horror" observation is very accurate. So often, his stories are really about someone trapped with the monsters in his head. Even when they're external, they're internal.

I'm thinking of "Eye in the Sky," "Ubik," stuff like that.

Yep,

well said, Matt.
Mohammed, does this answer your question?

Personally, I wish they'd kick GENRE in the teeth - I'd rather find writers I like by A-Z rather than by sub-genre, theme-limited.

Dick, for me, though he was 'tagged' as sci-fi was all about WRITER and the writing-as-living experience.

Mike wrote: "Yep,

well said, Matt.
Mohammed, does this answer your question?

Personally, I wish they'd kick GENRE in the teeth - I'd rather find writers I like by A-Z rather than by sub-genre, theme-limi..."

Yeah it answers my question. Personal horror is very good way to describe what he writes.

I dont even think about genre when i read. I think i feel for a Dick story or a for Jack London book and so on.

My fav writers happen to write in some genres.

"My fav writers happen to write in some genres."

only because of the hideously restrictive structure of the marketing/advertising industry that publishers and agents try to wedge original creative beings into.

Campaign for WRITER BY A-Z would be a good cause, imho.

:)

Yeah i never understood the big fuss over genre, i mean non-genre writers writing similar stories look like their own genre too....

I like to think story type when i think of stories. Do i want science story or a mundane contemporary setting, a scary story. Not i want SF or non-genre or horror.

"If it sounds good, it is good." It's Duke Ellington on musical genre, but it definitely applies here. Made it into my English Lit. Masters thesis.

'Personal Horror' hmm..very interesting. it would be great if you please discuss that further. Personally, I think Dick's fear is very modern one. don't you think? do you think that stems from a cause like the sense of being surveillanced by an ubiquitous observer(s)?

I'll refer anyone who wants to see my opinion of Dick's 'genre' to visit this other PKD Group discussion, "the horror of Dick"

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

:)

There is a sense of horror in the bleak,people controlled by the powers worlds of his. Like in Flow my Tears,the policeman said.


The horror sf stories of his that are more regular scary are very good too. Second Variety is a chilling story i loved reading. Cant help thinking the idea of Terminator films must be connected to that story.

The background premis of the Terminators is lifted wholesale from Second Variety: a war between men and machines in which the machines attempt to infiltrate the few remaining human encampments by using mass-produced robots designed to look like humans.

Shame on James Cameron for not crediting PKD.

Michael wrote: "The background premis of the Terminators is lifted wholesale from Second Variety: a war between men and machines in which the machines attempt to infiltrate the few remaining human encampments by u..."

Yeah i was almost shocked that PKD didnt get a credit for Terminator. But thats hollywood they can steal stories and act like they created them as film....

Harlan Ellison claimed that James Cameron's film The Terminator drew from material from two episodes Ellison wrote for The Outer Limits ("Soldier" and "Demon with a Glass Hand").

The production company that made Terminator, Hemdale, and its distributor Orion Pictures, settled out of court for an undisclosed sum, "gratefully acknowledging" the work of Ellison at the end of the film. (WIKIPEDIA)

Gimme James Cameron film-idea-stealing any day - Terminator kicked action ass! Whereas the film they made of 'Second Variety' SCREAMERS was a bag of crumbling dogsh*t, a turd that had long stopped steaming.

Fact.

James Cameron was at his best with Terminator,Terminator 2,Aliens thats for sure. Those are among my fav movies of alltime.

Still someone should have said where they took the ideas from. Not Cameron but the guys behind the story,script.

That Terminator is a good film (and it is) is no excuse for plagiarism.

I'm a newbie to GoodReads and a librarian by profession. I've been a Phillip Dick fan for many, many years but just found out about the new movie. It's a real kick to know his work is appreciated by a whole new generation which is the third by my count! Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is probably my favorite, but I've never read a Dick story I didn't like. I have a biography as well as the Valis trilogy and they are helpful in catching a glimpse of his mind.

Though I'm not a big fan of his period-piece TITANIC, do not DARE to downplay James Cameron's AVATAR - this is an amazing adventure in anti-corporate-war-land.

Great incentive for mankind to kick those asset-strippers and land-grabbers out.

Mike wrote: "Though I'm not a big fan of his period-piece TITANIC, do not DARE to downplay James Cameron's AVATAR - this is an amazing adventure in anti-corporate-war-land.

Great incentive for mankind to kic..."

Avatar? One word - Barsoom!