The History Book Club discussion
THE FIRST WORLD WAR
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THE OFFENSIVE OF THE SOMME
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/ch...
In 2006 - Britain's oldest veteran:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/50...
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'An emotional day' at the Somme
Neil McGurk retraced the footsteps of his grandfather and two great-uncles on a march marking the 90-year anniversary of the Battle of the Somme. This is the last entry of his online diary.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/51...
Source: BBC
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Two German participants in events commemorating the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme say why they believe it is so important that they take part.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/50...
Source: BBC
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http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?tab=av...
Source: BBC
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/trail/wa...
BBC
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"The Somme is an unappealing river, marshy and meandering, but the countryside that surrounds it appears fondly familiar to an English eye, rising and falling in long, green swells and hollows reminiscent of Salisbury Plaine or the Sussex Downs. The British would come to know it well, for by 1916 their length of line, progressively extended southward as their numbers grew, reached almost to the valley of the Rivver Somme at Peronne, which would form their new boundary with the French for the rest of the war."
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Keegan stated: "Military logic therefore required that it was at those shoulders that the attackers should make their major efforts and defenders be best prepared to withstand an assault."
Was the military strategy that logical, if it was so logical why did both sides envision a style of major operations which were not at all suitable for the geography of the Western Front?
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"Since strategic geography is a major determinant of strategic choice, the geographical advantage enjoyed by the French disposed them to attack. Geography did not, however, supply the only argument for such a decision, nor for the complementary German decision to await attack on the Western Front."
"The real reasons were quite different. France, as the victim of Germany's offensive of August 1914, and the major territorial loser in the outcome of the campaign, was bound to attack. National pride and national economic necessity required it."
"Germany, by contrast, was bound to stand on the defensive, since the setbacks she had suffered in the east, in its two-front war, demanded that troops be sent from France to Poland for an offensive in that region. The security of the empire was at stake; so, too, was the survival of Germany's Austrian ally. The Hapsburg army had been grievously damaged by the battles in Galicia and the Carpathians, its ethnic balance disturbed, its human and material reserves almost exhausted. A renewed Russian effort might push it over the edge. The real outcome of 1914 was not the frustration of the Schlieffen Plan but the danger of a collapse of the Central Powers' position in Eastern Europe."
Great information there Bentley for the Somme, many thanks. Can I suggest one very good book for those interested in further reading? This book was the reason why I started to read so much about the Western Front and World War One. It's Martin Middlebrook's "First Day On The Somme".
by Martin MiddlebrookPublishers blurb:
"After an immense but useless bombardment, at 7.30 am. On 1 July 1916 the British Army went over the top and attacked the German trenches. It was the first day of the battle of the Somme, and on that day the British suffered nearly 60,000 casualties, two for every yard of their front. With more than fifty times the daily losses at El Alamein and fifteen times the British casualties on D-day, 1 July 1916 was the blackest day in the history of the British Army. But, more than that, as Lloyd George recognised, it was a watershed in the history of the First World War. The Army that attacked on that day was the volunteer Army that had answered Kitchener's call. It had gone into action confident of a decisive victory. But by sunset on the first day on the Somme, no one could any longer think of a war that might be won. After that it was a struggle that had simply to be endured. Martin Middlebrook's research has covered not just official and regimental histories and tours of the battlefields, but interviews with hundreds of survivors, both British and German. As to the action itself, he conveys the overall strategic view and the terrifying reality that it was for front-line soldiers."
I still think that this book is 'the' book on the battle (although it only covers the first day).
Another great book that provides many first-hand accounts is Lyn MacDonald's book "The Somme". This is a great account of the battle with many participants offering their own stories of the terrible battle, its a great read and if you really want to understand what the battle was like for the poor old infantry soldier in the trenches then this is the book to read.
by Lyn MacdonaldPublishers blurb:
"This book looks at the Battle of the Somme, which was planned as "The Big Push" that would at last break the long stalemate on the Western Front in World War I. However the 18 divisions that went over the top between Arras and St-Quentin on the morning of 1 July 1916, walked into a battle that has gone down in the annals of human conflict as the slaughterhouse of a generation. The author has written other books about the history of World War I, including, "They Called it Passchendaele" and "The Roses of No Man's Land". "
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And of course, on all of the threads if you have any suggestions, please feel free to add as many as you are able.
One thing that I found that Keegan's book does not have enough of is good maps.
Hi Bentley, the biggest problem with most military history books are maps. I think the authors want more but the costs are for some reason quite high so the publishers try to cut back as much as they can, a shame really.
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By the way, the ones that Keegan does have for the most part are illegible with shades of gray that you cannot even decipher in some cases. You make a good point about the publishers trying to keep down the cost; but how about making the ones that are included legible!
Bentley
John Keegan
There use to be a book out titled; "Atlas of World War One" but I don't think its in print any longer.Phillipsª Maps and Atlases of WW1 by Philip Lee Phillips
Others I know of avialable on the market but which I don't own to comment on are:
by Tonie Holt
by Thomas E. Griess
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I find the Somme such a fascinating subject that I tend to buy any decent book that I come across on the battle. Here are some of the better accounts for those who may be interested in reading further:
by Peter Hart
by Malcolm Brown (my favourite)
by Martin Gilbert
by William James Philpott (not read yet)Review:
"Required reading . . . A thoughtful and important book by a first-rate historian . . . It is a proper history of the battle, not simply an agonising account of its first day . . . He is supremely skilful in charting what he terms the battle's "shifting history and enduring memory" . . . There is something about the Somme that is imprinted onto my heart, and I am grateful that this book has helped me put it into a context that goes beyond time, place, courage and suffering" - Richard Holmes
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For a nice first-hand account I could suggest this book:
by E.P.F. LynchFrom the back cover:
‘We live in a world of Somme mud. We sleep in it, work in it, fight in it, wade in it and many of us die in it…’
Private Edward Lynch enlisted in the army aged just eighteen. As his ship set sail for France, the band played and the crowd proudly waved off their young men. Men who had no real notion of the reality of the trenches of the Somme; of the pale-faced, traumatised soldiers they would encounter there; of the mud and blood and the innumerable contradictions of war.
Upon his return from France in 1919, Private Lynch wrote about his experiences in twenty school exercise books, perhaps in the hope of coming to terms with all that he had witnessed there. Now published here for the first time, his story vividly captures the horror and magnitude of the war on the Western Front as experienced by the ordinary infantryman.
Told with dignity, candour and surprising wit, Somme Mud is a testament to the power of the human spirit – for out of the mud that threatened to suck out a man’s very soul rose this remarkable true story of humanity and friendship
Two books covering the German perspective of the Somme battles:
by Jack SheldonPublishers blurb:
Presents an account, from the German perspective, of the activities and operations of the German Army on the Somme. This book covers the whole battle from the commencement of operations in 1914 through to the end of the Battle of the Somme in late 1916.
by Christopher DuffyPublishers blurb:
The Battle of the Somme has an enduring legacy, the image established by Alan Clark of 'lions led by donkeys': brave British soldiers sent to their deaths by incompetent generals. However, from the German point of view the battle was a disaster. Their own casualties were horrendous. The Germans did not hold the (modern) view that the British Army was useless. As Christopher Duffy reveals, they had great respect for the British forces and German reports shed a fascinating light on the volunteer army recruited by General Kitchener. The German view of the British Army has never been made public until now. Their typially diligent reports have lain undisturbed in obscure archives until unearthed by Christopher Duffy. The picture that emerges is a far cry from 'Blackadder': the Germans developed an increasing respect for the professionalism of the British Army. And the fact that every British soldier taken prisoner still believed Britain would win the war gave German intelligence teams their first indication that their Empire would go down to defeat.
Here are another two decent books covering the Battle of the Somme:
by Terry NormanPublishers blurb:
The Somme was surely one of the bloodiest rendezvous for battle of all time. High Wood, dominating the Bazentin Ridge, was the fiercely contested focal point of the battle. The Germans showed great determination and sacrifice defending the feature and it was not until September that it finally fell to the attackers. Ironically the successful divisional commander was rewarded with dismissal for "wanton waste of men". This exceptional book not only paints a graphic and gruesome picture of the fighting but sheds light on the problems of high command.
by Peter H. LiddlePublishers blurb:
There are books on Haig, on British military leadership in 1916 and on unit individual personal experiences in that year but there is a dearth of books on the battle of the Somme which sets out to examine the concept and planning of the battle and its conduct over the whole four and a half months, let alone one which has hitherto unpublished material to show what it was like to serve in the battle at every stage. This book does not concentrate exclusively on the front line infantryman but also the gunner, sapper, medical man, airman and even the nurse on the Somme too. The introduction explains the phenomenon of the Somme being scorched into the National heritage but with a distortion produced by the literary legacy, a distortion that the author claims is as regrettable as it is explicable.
In a substantial, powerfully argued case, the author takes issue with the judgement of other historians in particular with Tim Travers ("The Killing Ground") and Denis Winter ("Haig's Command") and with the commonly held verdict on the battle and then, in an entirely appropriate conclusion, he explains the remarkable holding up of the morale of the British Expeditionary Force over so long and demanding an experience.
Here are two very different types of books covering the Battle of the Somme:
by Gerald GliddonPublishers blurb:
The Battle of Somme continues to influence the British imagination and will always remain of great interest to to the military historian. Set forth topographically, the book provides a short history of each town, village, and wood associated with the bloodiest battle of the Great War. Ranging from the famous battle sites, such as High and Mametz Woods, to obscure villages on the outlying flanks, it draws upon the testimony of those who took part and also includes a chronology and extensive bibliography.
by Martin MiddlebrookPublishers blurb:
The French "department" of the Somme witnessed innumerable battles and acts of war, dating back to the time of the Roman occupation. William the Conqueror set sail from a port on the Somme coast to invade England, the French and British fought at Crecy in 1346 and Henry V's army marched through the area on its way to Agincourt in 1415. In 1870 the region was invaded by the Prussians. Within the next 80 years, two world wars swept back and forth across the Somme and the history of the region became still more closely linked with that of Britain. There were three major battles in the area during World War I and the troops of the British Empire were closely involved and suffered great losses on each occasion. Approximately half of the 400,000 soldiers who died on the Somme in 1914-18 were British. After the war, 242 British cemeteries sprang up and the bodies of 50,000 men that were never found still lie under the Somme fields. In this book the authors record every battle that has taken place on the Somme, from the earliest Roman invasion to the day in 1944 when Allied forces advancing from Normandy swept the Germans out of the Somme. They also provide a fully illustrated guide to its military cemetries, memorials, preserved trenches, craters and other reminders of battle. Martin Middlebrook also wrote "The First Day on the Somme" and "The Kaiser's Battle".
“On the Somme battlefields of France” writes Martin Middlebrook, “nearly half a million human beings were killed or died of wounds, illness, or privation in two world wars.” In this moving volume, the authors provide a definitive guide to the cemeteries, memorials, and battlefields from the age of Crécy and Agincourt to the great Allied sweep that drove the Germans back in 1944. Brief chapters consider the routes from the Channel ports, the western Somme, and the towns of Amiens and Doullens, but the majority of the text covers the scenes of ferocious fighting in 1916 and 1918. Comrades buried soldiers where they fell, just behind the lines, in local French graveyards, around medical stations, and in “concentration cemeteries.” The authors list each site, setting them in historical context. The result is a both a visitor’s companion and a magnificent work of commemoration.
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My pleasure Bentley, I will add one more for the Somme as this book covers Pozieres which has special significance for Australians.
Pozieres, 1916 Australians on the Somme by Peter CharltonPublishers blurb:
Pozieres is a story of strategic and tactical blunders and incompetent generals. Charlton describes the fighting from the points of view of the British and Australian generals who planned the attack, and from the soldiers and officers who did the fighting.
I can't scan my photo's from my WW1 battle field trip in 1990 so I will have to use links instead. The link below is to the windmill at Pozieres on the Somme. There is a inscription there that reads; "The ruin of Pozières windmill which lies here was the centre of the struggles in this part of the Somme battlefield in July and August 1916. It was captured on 4th August by Australian troops, who fell more thickly on this ridge than any other.
Pozieres - windmill
Here is another link to a very sad site (all of them are really) on the Somme where the troops from the Newfoundland Regiment suffered horrendous casualties:Beaumont Hamel Newfoundland Memorial
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I found the Newfoundland memorial site pretty amazing, being as you can still walk in and along the original trenches and across no-mans land to the German positions. So many men lost on such a small piece of ground.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_th...
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Bentley, the biggest problem with most military history books are maps. I think the authors want more but the costs are for some reason quite high so the publishers try to cut back as much as th..."Hurray Aussie Rick
I am so far behind with this book in part because I find that I must read it with a big Atlas and therefore have little travel reading with this book
Hi Vince, sorry to hear that you can't read your book while travelling to and from work, what a bummer! Maps, or lack of decent maps, have become a real problem with military books and you figure that editors would have picked up on that but I suppose its all about making a profit.
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Which book are you talking about Vince. Are you talking about the Keegan book? Whenever you catch up is fine...I am leaving the threads open and I fully understand the map problem.
John Keegan
Hi BentleyThanks - it is the Keegan book - It is not unreasonable - it is just that Aussie Rick's comment struck a chord for me.
The problem is with my knowledge and understanding of geography
Tthnaks for the comment.
I will leave the book for a while _ I am off to Utah, Bryce, Zion etc and my pal Ulysses is coming with me instead of John
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James Joyce
Ryszard Kapuściński
Sorry - I forgot to link the book - I meant our grant by SmithNo links as this is from my Blackberry
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Jean Edward Smith
I forgot to mention this recent release in the UK which provides the German perspective of the fighting along the Somme; "The Other Side of the Wire Volume 1: With the German XIV Reserve Corps on the Somme, September 1914-June 1916" by Ralph Whitehead.
by Ralph J. WhiteheadDescription
"The Other Side of the Wire" brings to life a period long forgotten in the decades that have passed since the Great War ended in 1918. Until recently most books written on the Battle of the Somme concentrated almost exclusively on the British effort with only a brief mention of the period before 1 July 1916 and the German experience in the battle. Most simply ignore the nearly two years of warfare that preceded the momentous offensive. By focusing on one of the principal German formations involved in the Somme fighting, author Ralph Whitehead brings to life this little-known period, from the initial German advance on the Somme in September 1914 through the formation of the front that became so well known almost two years later.The book covers the early fighting around villages that took on such notoriety in 1916: Serre, Beaumont-Hamel, Thiepval, Ovillers, La Boisselle and Fricourt among others. The events that took place on the Somme between September 1914 and June 1916 would slowly but surely turn the once rolling farmland into a veritable fortress. The author brings a sense of humanity to the story of the war using the words of the men who fought on the Somme, many of them from previously unpublished diaries and Feldpost letters.The book takes the reader from the initial German invasion of the Somme through to the end of June 1916, the eve of the Somme Offensive. The reader can experience the start of trench warfare, French attacks in 1914 and 1915 and the implementation of trench raids and how they developed over time. The start of mine warfare, artillery tactics, life in the rear areas and the arrival of the British are covered in detail. The book relates the experiences and daily activities of the men from the XIV Reserve Corps as each chapter brings the reader closer to the Somme Offensive in 1916, an attack that was long anticipated by the men of the XIV Reserve Corps. The reader will have a better understanding of the events that took place on 1 July 1916, and some of the reasons for the successes and failures on both sides of the wire on that momentous day.The author also provides details of the discovery and identification by the Great War Archaeological Group 'No Man's Land' of two German soldiers, both of who lost their lives in June 1915 while fighting near Serre. An account of their final moments is provided based upon the historic records and the archaeological finds.A detailed casualty list is included for seven regiments of infantry and artillery for the period September 1914 through June 1916 in an effort to give some scale to the losses suffered by the Germans on the Somme during this period.One unique aspect of the book is the hundreds of photographs of the men who actually fought in the XIV Reserve Corps, many never published before and taken from the author's personal collection. Overall, the book features nearly 350 photographs, many previously unpublished, giving a unique insight into the German forces on the Somme 1914-16.This superb Great War title is being published in a strictly limited edition hardback run of 750 copies, each copy individually numbered and signed by the author.
Reviews:
"... author brings to life this little-known period..... and brings a sense of humanity to the story of the war using the words of the men who fought there..." - Cross & Cockade International
"All in all a very interesting, informative and revealing book and for anyone with an interest in World War I a book I would highly recommend." - Wargames Recon
After the Australian’s first assault on Pozieres in which they managed to capture all their objectives many dead and wounded remained in no-mans land, too many for stretcher bearers to collect and take to aid posts. Many walking wounded tried to make their own way back, this account is from the book I’m currently reading; "Pozieres: The ANZAC Story" by Scott Bennett:"Private Peter Snodgrass, a 31-year-old shearer from Western Australia, recollected one particular man with a bandaged ankle, two bandaged knees, a gunshot wound to the shoulder, and his shattered and badly bleeding arm in a sling, refusing to be stretchered out because there were many more urgent cases than him."
Here is another account that I found quite poignant:
"Foxcroft’s diary provides an insight into his attitude toward the Germans after the Pozieres attack. Foxcroft described how he entered a cellar, decorated with furniture and hanging pictures, knelt by the corpse of a German, and picked through his belongings for souvenirs. He came across some worn black-and-white photographs in the tunic pocket. One was a portrait of the dead man. He had a long, boyish face and a pencil-thin moustache, with black hair poking from underneath his cap. In another photograph, the soldier’s parents, young wife, and infant sun posed in a sunlit garden. It was probably taken in the hot summer of 1914, just before he marched off to war.
The third photograph, an intimate portrait of the soldier’s wife, showed dark eyes, a soft complexion, and a thick black hair neatly gathered in a bun. The young woman would be unaware of her husband’s fate – unaware that he was a corpse on the dirty floor of a dugout in a foreign land, with an enemy soldier picking through his most intimate possessions."
by Scott Bennett
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Bentley wrote: "I agree, when I am reading Keegan...I am distracted because I am searching for maps (elsewhere). For those of you out there who are beginning a Keegan read...I would strongly suggest you invest in ..."Hi,
One source of excellent maps (both colour and B&W) is the official histories from the nations involved. They make for interesting reading giving each country's views on the strategy, tactics and operations plus many appendices. I have listed below a link from the excellent Great War 1914-1918 website that describes the sets including series or volume authors etc http://www.greatwar.co.uk/research/bo...
The only challenge is that to buy the original volumes can be costly; there are reprints but the maps - as per the keeping costs down aspect mentioned early - do suffer somewhat. However, you may be lucky in having a library service that still retains some too or perhaps a military museum (UK's Imperial War Museum, National Army Museum or say the Australian War Memorial) who can offer reader's tickets.
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http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/9...
I’m still reading; “Pozieres” and this account refers to one of the Australian officers who suffered shell shock from the severe German bombardment and was trying to regain his composure by having a rest in a dugout away from the worst of the shelling:“When his rest period was up, he stepped groggily out of the dugout, just as a German shell exploded close by. ‘It killed a man that had just stepped out of the dugout in front of me and knocked me down to the bottom of the steps with the dead man on top of me’, he recorded in his war memoirs. It ‘terminated my further interest in proceedings.’ Harris had severe shell shock; he never returned to the line.”
Another account covering the affects of the German shell fire at Pozieres:
“In the early hours of 27 July, Iven Mackay’s 4th battalion troops prepared for their relief. ‘Wake those men up and tell them to get ready,’ ordered one of his lieutenants, George Pugh. But it soon became clear that the men he referred to would never leave Pozieres – a thick film of dust obscured their faces, suggesting that they had died days earlier, and churned-up dirt from the bombardment had subsequently settled upon them.”
This account covers aspect of the punishment handed out to machine-gunners from both sides:
“Some prisoners did not make it back for interrogation. Sergeant Bruce Drayton recounted an exchange between 20-year-old Private Noel Sainsbury and a German officer. ‘Are you a machine-gunner?’ the German officer asked the wounded Sainsbury.
‘Yes sir,’ replied Sainsbury.
The officer drew his pistol and shot him through the chest and had. ‘That is the way I deal with English swine.’
It seemed machine-gunners received rough handling in both German and Australian hands.”
by Scott Bennett
Two more sections from the book; “Pozieres: The ANZAC Story” by Scott Bennett:“The coveted ridge that the Australians had fought so hard for was now one of the most dangerous places on Earth. Later, John Masefield would write that thousands of men were killed on that plateau, and buried and unburied, and buried and unburied again, until no bit of dust was without a man in it.”
“The flood of incoming cases overwhelmed and saddened the nurses. ‘I have about 156 dressings to do for about 30 one-armed men,’ wrote Australian nurse Sister Edith Avenell during a busy period for the hospital. ‘I was on duty with a ward of 15 patients who had three legs between them,’ wrote another nurse. ‘I felt a coward and shrank from meeting them at first, for they shamed me with the cheerfulness and independence’.”
by Scott Bennett
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Archaeologists are beginning the most detailed ever study of a Western Front battlefield, an untouched site where 28 British tunnellers lie entombed after dying during brutal underground warfare. For WWI historians, it's the "holy grail".
Here is the link to the full article replete with other diagrams, maps and photos.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13...
Location:
The privately owned land in the sleepy rural village of La Boisselle had been practically untouched since fighting ceased in 1918, remaining one of the most poignant sites of the Battle of the Somme.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
CWGC Battlefield Companion Somme 1916 (other topics)The Great War: July 1, 1916: The First Day of the Battle of the Somme (other topics)
24 Hours at the Somme: 1 July 1916 (other topics)
Ghosts on the Somme: Filming the Battle, June-July 1916 (other topics)
Fighting the Somme: German Challenges, Dilemmas and Solutions (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Commonwealth War Graves Commission (other topics)Joe Sacco (other topics)
Robert Kershaw (other topics)
Alastair Fraser (other topics)
Jack Sheldon (other topics)
More...
Here are some dramatic images:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi...
Source: BBC