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THE FIRST WORLD WAR > PASSCHENDAELE (THIRD BATTLE OF YPRES, ETC.)

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message 1: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Jan 21, 2015 02:10PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
This is a thread dedicated to the discussion of Passchendaele (Third Battle of Ypres).

Known also as the THIRD BATTLE OF YPRES, THIRD FLANDERS BATTLE, SECOND BATTLE OF FLANDERS, BATTLE OF THE LYS.

Included also Battle of Messines, Battle of Gheluvelt Plateau, Battle of Pilckem Ridge: 31 July, Battle of Langemarck: 16–18 August, Battle of Menin Road: 20–25 September, Battle of Polygon Wood: 26 September, Battle of Broodseinde: 4 October, Battle of Poelcappelle: 9 October, First Battle of Passchendaele: 12 October, Second Battle of Passchendaele: 26 October - 10 November, Battle of Caporetto, The Battle of Cambrai,

The Battle of Passchendaele also known as the Third Battle of Ypres, Third Flanders Battle (German: Dritte Flandernschlacht) and Second Battle of Flanders (French: 2ème Bataille des Flandres) was one of the major battles of the First World War.

The battle consisted of a series of operations starting in June 1917 and finally dissipating in November 1917 in which Entente troops under British command attacked the Imperial German Army.

The battle was fought for control of the village of Passchendaele near the town of Ypres in West Flanders, Belgium.

The objective of the offensive was to achieve a breakthrough between the River Lys and the North Sea in the hopes of outflanking the German Fourth Army’s defensive system from the north. The British believed the manoeuvre would cripple the German U-boat campaign by depriving Germany of the use of the Belgian ports. Germany inflicted increasingly heavy losses on British shipping following its resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare in February 1917 and the British mistakenly believed the Germans were using Belgian ports for U-boat operations. The offensive also served the dual purpose of diverting German attention away from the French in the Aisne, who were suffering from widespread mutiny.

The British launched several massive attacks, heavily supported by artillery and aircraft. The British never managed to make a decisive breakthrough against well-entrenched German lines. The battle consisted of a series of 'Bite and Hold' attacks to capture critical terrain and wear down the German army, lasting until the Canadian Corps took Passchendaele on 6 November 1917, ending the battle. Although inflicting irreplaceable casualties on the Germans, the Allies had captured a mere 5 miles (8 km) of new territory at a cost of 140,000 combat deaths, a ratio of roughly 2 inches (5 cm) gained per dead soldier. The Germans recaptured their lost ground, without resistance, 5 months later during the Battle of the Lys, losing it for good in late September 1918.

Passchendaele has become synonymous with the misery of grinding attrition warfare fought in thick mud. Most of the battle took place on reclaimed marshland, swampy even without rain. 1917 had an unusually cold and wet summer, and heavy artillery bombardment destroyed the surface of the land. Though there were dry periods, mud was nevertheless a constant feature of the landscape; newly-developed tanks bogged down in mud, and soldiers often drowned in it. The battle is a subject of fierce debate among historians, particularly in Britain.

The volume of the British Official History of the War which covered Passchendaele was the last to be published, and there is evidence it was biased to reflect well on Field Marshal Douglas Haig and badly on General Hubert Gough, the commander of the Fifth Army.

The heavy casualties suffered by the British Army in return for slender territorial gains have led many historians to follow the example of David Lloyd George, the Prime Minister of the time, and use it as an example of senseless waste and poor generalship.

There is also a revisionist school of thought which seeks to emphasize the achievements of the British Army in the battle, in inflicting great damage on the German Army, relieving pressure on the distressed French, and developing offensive tactics capable of dealing with German defensive positions, which were significant in winning the war in 1918.

Casualty figures for the battle are still a matter of some controversy. Some accounts suggest that the Allies suffered significantly heavier losses than the Germans, while others offer more even figures. However, no-one disputes that hundreds of thousands of soldiers on both sides were killed or crippled.

The last surviving veteran of the battle, Private Harry Patch, died on 25 July 2009.

These battles were part of the Western Front.

Source: Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_o...

Also: Times Online - A Shattering Blow
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/syst...

Also: The Third Battle of Ypres - 1917
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/...

Also: Westhoek:
http://www.wo1.be/eng/mainnav.html

Also: Tribute to Second Lieutenant Robert Riddel
http://we-will-remember.tripod.com/

Also: Uncovering the Secrets of Ypres:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/63...

Also: The Battle of Passchendaele Day by day detailed description of battle (with maps).
http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/...

Also: The St. Eloi Craters
The Western Front Today - St Eloi Craters
http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/st...

Also: Primary Documents - Sir Douglas Haig's 1st Despatch (St Eloi), 19 May 1916
http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/h...

Also: THE ST. ELOI CRATERS AND MOUNT SORREL, 1916
(See Maps 3 and 4, and Sketches 23 and 24)
http://www.cefresearch.com/matrix/Nic...

More:

The First World War by John Keegan by John Keegan John Keegan


message 2: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) One of the best books that I have read on this battle was by Lyn McDonald and if you really want to learn more about this terrible battle of WW1 from the soldiers perspective than you can't go past this book:

They Called It Passchendaele by Lyn Macdonald by Lyn Macdonald
Publishers blurb:
The third battle of Ypres, culminating in a desperate struggle for the ridge and little village of Passchendaele, was one of the most appalling campaigns in the First World War. In this masterly piece of oral history, Lyn Macdonald lets over 600 participants speak for themselves. A million Tommies, Canadians and Anzacs assembled at the Ypres Salient in the summer of 1917, mostly raw young troops keen to do their bit for King and Country. This book tells their tale of mounting disillusion amid mud, terror and desperate privation, yet it is also a story of immense courage, comradeship, songs, high spirits and bawdy humour. They Called It Passchendaele portrays the human realities behind one of the most disastrous events in the history of warfare.


message 3: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) In my current book "The Anzacs" by Peter Pedersen, I am currently reading about the battle of Passchendaele and I figured I would offer a few quotes from the book.

The Anzacs Gallipoli to the Western Front by Peter Pedersen by Peter Pedersen

“Led by Captain Frederick Moore, Diggers from the 5th Battalion surrounded the blockhouse at Black Watch Corner, on the southern corner of Polygon Wood. Its garrison motioned to surrender but Moore was shot dead as he ran towards them. Only a great effort by other officers prevented his men slaughtering the Bavarians. Those in a two-storey pillbox, cleared at the same time, were less fortunate. The Australians thought the battle was over because the men on the lower level surrendered. Unaware they had done so, the men on the upper level shot one of the Australians. Incensed, the Australians bayoneted every prisoner. In no mood to spare one who pleaded for mercy, a Digger whose bayonet was not on his rifle grimly fixed it and killed him.”

“Attacking next to the 2nd Brigade, Lieutenant Adrian Ball and his platoon from the 24th Battalion seized another pillbox. Sending the prisoners off, Ball returned to his men, who were smoking German cigars and getting stuck into Rheinwein, a bottle apiece. Suitably primed, they sent some convivial messages to the Guards after finding two crates of carrier pigeons. Expecting updates on the battle, the Guards read instead: ‘Deutschland Uber Alles! Ha! Ha!’ ‘Hock the Kaiser – I don’t think’, and a request from ball himself for certain information of an obscene and personal nature. The remaining pigeons were plucked and stewed.”


message 4: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "One of the best books that I have read on this battle was by Lyn McDonald and if you really want to learn more about this terrible battle of WW1 from the soldiers perspective than you can't go past..."

This looks like an extremely worthwhile book Aussie Rick and I have added it to my books to read. Thank you also for your other adds on the other First World War links.


message 5: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Here are a few more good books covering Passchendaele:


In Flanders Fields (Penguin History) by Leon Wolff by Leon Wolff
(Leon Wolff is American and served in the US Air Force during the Second World War and often flew over Flanders fields)

Publishers blurb:
Of all the grim, gallant and inglorious battles of the Western Front, this is the name uniquely evocative of the "mud and blood" that pervaded the First World War. The total gain - a few thousand yards of indefensible slough - cost about a million Allied lives. In this now classic account of the Flanders campaign, Leon Wolff graphically describes the whole terrible business: from Haig's initial plan; his determination to carry it out despite constant opposition from the Cabinet and the muddle of doubts and disagreement among the military staff; through the early stages of the "great offensive"; and to the scene of the battle itself - the Flanders fields which will "forever haunt Western civilization".

Passchendaele The Untold Story by Robin Prior by Robin Prior

Passchendaele by Warner Passchendaele (no cover) by Warner

Passchendaele The Sacrificial Ground by Nigel; Hart, Peter Steel by Nigel; Hart, Peter Steel
Publishers blurb:
Based upon the archival holdings at the Imperial War Museum, London, this volume gathers together a wealth of material about the horrific World War I offensive at Passchendaele Ridge. Nearly 600,000 lives were lost in the offensive which lasted for two and a half months.

From my own reading of this book I would like to add this section:

".......I would like to finish up with an account from the book where a young British soldier was about to go 'over the top' during the offensive to take Pilckem Ridge on the 31st July 1917: 'It was still dark but then suddenly it was illuminated by a line of bursting shells, but what was astonishing still was that we must all have been deafened by the noise. I looked at Herbert, I could see his lips move - I shouted but I couldn't hear myself at all. I wanted to tell him that we would keep together so I grabbed his hand and we went over together as we had gone to Sunday School - hand in hand.' - Private Alfred Warsop, 1st Battalion, Sherwood Foresters


message 6: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Some great adds, thanks.


message 7: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Here is another section from my current book; "The Anzacs" by Peter Pedersen which talks about the results of an Australian assault on a German position at Passchendaele:

"...'Our dead lay everywhere, it was the worst slaughter I have seen', said an Australian doctor. He sobbed at the sight of so many casualties. The Germans mercifully left the stretcher-bearers alone: 'Many pointed to where wounded were lying - Hun snipers pointed to where their victims were'. The bearers were soon exhausted: 'To carry a wounded man from the front line to the R.A.P. was a terrible undertaking. The distance to be covered was less than a thousand yards but it took six men, four, five and even six hours to do the trip'. As Lieutanant Carson wrote, the plight of numerous unwounded was also awful: 'We were bogged up to our armpits and it took anything from an hour upwards to get out. Lots were drowned in the mud and water.' They haunted Lieutenant Russell Harris:

' The feeling of frustration of having been unable at times to go to the help of men in those mudholes is still a painful memory. It was impossible to shut one's ears to their cries, and when silence came it was almost like a physical blow, engendering a feeling bordering on guilt.'

The Anzacs Gallipoli to the Western Front by Peter Pedersen by Peter Pedersen


message 8: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) This book below offers a German perspective of Passchendaele, made up of first-hand accounts of German soldiers:

The German Army at Passchendaele by Jack Sheldon by Jack Sheldon
Publsihers blurb:

Even after the passage of almost a century, the name Passchendaele has lost none of its power to shock and dismay. Reeling from the huge losses in earlier battles, the German army was in no shape to absorb the impact of the Battle of Messines and the subsequent bitter attritional struggle. Throughout the fighting on the Somme, the German army had always felt that it had the ability to counter Allied thrusts, but following the shock reverses of April and May 1917, much heart searching had led to the urgent introduction of new tactics of flexible defence. When these in turn were found to be wanting, the psychological damage shook the German defenders badly. But, as this book demonstrates, at trench level the individual soldier of the German Army was still capable of fighting extraordinarily hard, despite being outnumbered, outgunned and subjected to relentless, morale-sapping shelling and gas attacks.

The German army drew comfort from the realisation that, although it had had to yield ground and had paid a huge price in casualties, its morale was essentially intact and the British were no closer to a breakthrough in Flanders at the end of the battle than they had been many weeks earlier.


message 9: by 'Aussie Rick' (last edited Apr 10, 2010 02:42PM) (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Here is a book that offers a concise day--by-day account of the Third Ypres, Passchendaele:


Passchendaele The Day-By-Day Account by Chris McCarthy Passchendaele The Day-By-Day Account by Chris McCarthy
Publishers blurb:
A detailed chronological account of the battle of Passchendaele, based on the official histories, and illustrated with archive photographs and precise maps.


message 10: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
This battle is discussed in depth on pages 350 through pages 369 of Keegan's book.

Please feel free to discuss this battle here.

Bentley


message 11: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 19, 2010 09:06PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
The U-boat unrestricted campaign appeared to be lessening with the Brits use of convoys. The British did not exactly win the U-Boat war, but somehow the Germans still managed to lose it.

However, this unrestricted campaign nevertheless "had the effect of driving Britain to undertake what would become its most notorious land campaign of the war, the Third Battle of Ypres or Passchendaele, so called after the village.

Page 355

The hero of the first battle was Douglas Haig, the defender in the second:

Douglas Haig:

About Douglas Haig - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_...

This is the write-up from the First World War and this is fairly accurate account of the man - he was a cavalry man through and through.

Sir Douglas Haig (1861-1928), the most controversial of the war generals, was born in Edinburgh on 19 June 1861.

He studied first at Brasenose College, Oxford, and then in 1884 at the Royal Military Academy (Sandhurst).

He passed out of Sandhurst in under a year, joining the 7th (Queens Own) Hussars. He served there as a cavalry officer for the following nine years, chiefly in India.

Haig took part in the Omdurman campaign of 1897-1898, and in the Second Boer War of 1899-1902, where he served under Sir John French.

In 1906 Haig became Director of Military Training at the war office. Part of Haig's responsibility during this time included the construction of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) for deployment in the eventuality of war with Germany.

In 1909 Haig was made Chief of Staff of the Indian army.

By August 1914 - the start of the First World War - Haig commanded 1st Army Corps within the BEF as Lieutenant General. At this time the BEF was under the control of Sir John French. Haig's 1st Army Corps served with distinction at Mons and at First Ypres.

By the close of 1915 it was clear that French was ill-suited to the nature of the campaign, often depressed and pessimistic about the chances for success. Consequently Haig was appointed the new Commander in Chief of the BEF on 10 December 1915, a position he took up nine days later, French returning to Britain as Commander of the British Home Forces.

Much of the nature of the fighting taking place in the First World War was alien to Haig, a cavalry man through and through. He did not rate very highly the war's new weaponry. "The machine gun is a much over rated weapon," he said in 1915; he made similar remarks over the use of the tank.

The Somme offensive with which Haig's name is most often associated (along with Third Ypres, also known as Passchendaele), began on 1 July 1916. Haig was pressured to bring forward the original attack date from August so as to relieve the heavy casualties experienced by the French at Verdun, which the Germans had been bombarding since early in the year.

It was thought that by committing significant British forces on the Somme, the Germans would necessarily divert troops from Verdun, thereby taking the sting out of the offensive.

The first day of the Battle of the Somme saw the British Army suffer the highest number of casualties in its history: 60,000. Whether the attack was a success or not remains an area of controversy: however most historians agree that the cost in human terms was too high for relatively little gain. In any event the offensive was called off by Haig on 18 November 1916, technically a British victory.

1917 saw the campaign at Third Ypres from July to November - Passchendaele - which ultimately ground down German resistance, although at heavy cost in British manpower.

In 1918 Haig oversaw the successful British advances on the Western Front which led to victory for the Allies in November.

Haig has been criticised by many over the years for his tactics, which it is argued were deeply flawed. The wartime Prime Minister, David Lloyd George, was one such critic. He wrote that he sometimes wondered whether he should have resigned on more than one occasion rather than permit Haig to continue with his strategy. On the other hand, it is suggested that Haig's hand was largely forced by the pressure placed by the French for constant relief on the Western Front, on the Somme in 1916 and at Passchendaele in 1917.

After the armistice Haig served as Commander in Chief of the British Home Forces until 1921, the year of his retirement. His recent predecessor in this role was Sir John French. Haig was also awarded a grant of £100,000 by the government. He was made an earl in 1919 and then Baron Haig of Bemersyde in 1921.

Haig dedicated the remainder of his life to service in the Royal British Legion (which he helped to establish), caring for the welfare of the troops who served under him during the war.

Sir Douglas Haig died on 28 January 1928.



Douglas Haig The Educated Soldier (Cassell) by John Terraine John Terraine

DOUGLAS HAIG War Diaries and Letters 1914-1918 (Weidenfeld & Nicolson) by Douglas Haig Douglas Haig[

bookcover:Douglas Haig and the First World War|7398179]J. P. Harris

Sir Douglas Haig OS Despatches by J. h. Boraston J. h. Boraston


DOUGLAS HAIG Architect of Victory by Walter Reid Walter Reid


The Good Soldier The Biography of Douglas Haig by Gary Mead Gary Mead


SIR DOUGLAS HAIG OS GREAT PUSH. THE BATTLE OF THE SOMME by Naval & Military Press Naval & Military Press


DOUGLAS HAIG 'The Preparatory Prologue' 1861 - 1914 Diaries and Letters by Douglas Scott Douglas Scott


message 12: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 19, 2010 09:16PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Page 356:

Keegan referred to the serious French mutinies and their impact on this battle:

"On 7 June, Haig met Petain at Cassel, near Ypres, to be told that "two French Divisions had refused to go and relieve two Divisions in the front line"; the true figure was over fifty and Petain's assurance that "the situation in the French army was serious at the moment but is now more satisfactory" was wholly meretricious.

Lloyd George had, at Paris, guessed at the truth when he had challenged Petain to deny that 'for some reason or other you won't fight."

Petain had then merely smiled and said nothing. By June, with the truth of the French mutinies no longer deniable, it was clear that the British would have to fight alone. The matter of moment was to find justification for their doing so."


a) Why did the French try to cover this up with their Ally and not tell them the truth?

b) Meretricious means 1 apparently attractive but having in reality no value or integrity: Was Keegan indicating that Petain lacked integrity with the response he gave? Curious about the choice of word: meretricious.

c) Should the British have gone forward alone to fight this battle?


message 13: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 20, 2010 08:24AM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Passchendaele was an extremely complex and difficult position. The Germans called it "The Flanders Position".

Keegan believed that it was the strongest on the Western Front, both geographically and militarily.

Do you folks who are World War I buffs feel that this is a correct assessment? Why or why not?

Since I have not read a lot about World War I, I would be interested to hear from others as to what is their assessment of Keegan's statement.


message 14: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 20, 2010 11:30PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
On page 358, Keegan wrote the following:

From the low heights of Passchendaele, Bloodseinde and Gheluvelt, the enemy front line looked down on an almost level plain from which three years of constant shelling had removed every trace of vegetation; it had also destroyed the field drainage system, elaborated over centuries, so that the onset of rain, frequent in that coastal region, rapidly flooded the battlefield's surface and soon returned it to swamp.

To quagmire and absence of concealment the Germans had added to the BEF's difficulties by extending the depth of their trench system and its wire entanglements and by building a network of concrete pillboxes and bunkers, often constructed inside ruined buildings, which offered concealment to the construction teams and camouflage to the finished work.

The completed Flanders position was actually nine layers deep: in front, a line of listening posts in shell holes, covering three lines of breastworks or trenches in which the defending division's front-line battalions sheltered; next a battle zone consisting of machine-gun posts, supported by a line of pillboxes; finally, in the rearward battle zone, the counter-attack units of the division sheltered in concrete bunkers interspersed between the positions of the supporting artillery batteries.


1. I cannot understand the lack of attention to the problems that the troops were creating on the environment (not only vegetation but the drainage system). These soldiers had to be living and fighting in a swamp. No wonder we have seen so many horrible photos of men sitting and dragging equipment through slimey looking mud. Where was the conscience of these countries?

2) The Germans on the other hand had built concrete pillboxes and bunkers digging themselves in and protecting their men more.


message 15: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Here is a url which shows some photos of the German bunker at Zandvoorde:

http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flan...

Also Battle Remains in the Ypres Salient with more photos of the concrete bunkers

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/places/ypre...



Zandvoorde German Bunker


message 16: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 20, 2010 11:29PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I believe that this is a youtube video of this same bunker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2pHGS...

German Command Post Bunker (WWI) Vandvoorde, Belgium (believe this is Zandvoorde)

Directions:

This village is to the south-east of Ypres, and can be reached by following the N8 to Gheluvelt and then turning right at the signposted road to Zandvoorde, or else via Zillebeke and following smaller roads, which is not as straightforward.

Zandvoorde sits on a slight rise, and the church on top of this dominates the area around. The church is located in the centre of the village, and there are four First World War graves together to the right of the church. The graves are of two men and two officers of the 10th Hussars who died on the 26th of October 1914. The family of one, Lietenant Christopher Turner, donated a stained glass window to the church after the war.

This German command post was the command post for a regiment in the reserve to the rear of the German Front Line. It was built by the 3. Company of Armierungsbattalion 27 (a labour battalion). It is 19 metres in length with 6 rooms leading on to a hallway. Two of these are for watch posts and the other four are for Staff officers.

The bunker is located southeast of Zandvoorde village. It has been a listed monument since 1999. It is free for visitors and access can be gained to it daily at all hours through a small gate.


message 17: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Hi Bentley,

Great pictures of the German bunker at Vandvoorde. If I remember correctly one of the major Commonwealth War Graves outside of Ypres has two German concrete pill-boxes within the cemetery. I will see if I can find my photo's or some pictures online to post later.


message 18: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Some folks are spelling it with a Z and others with a V...which is correct?

Yes, if you can find those photos that would be terrific.


message 19: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 21, 2010 12:01AM) (new)


message 20: by 'Aussie Rick' (last edited Apr 21, 2010 04:42AM) (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Here is a link to the Tyne Cot Cemetery in Zonnebeke, part of the Ypres Salient. If you read down in the link you come across the story of the two German pillboxes retained within the cemetery:

Tyne Cot Cemetery

German Blockhouses Retained in the Cemetery - Two other German blockhouses or 'pillboxes' were kept within the boundary of the cemetery and incorporated into the final resting place of so many of the soldiers who had fought and died in their attempt to capture them.


message 21: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Thank you Aussie Rick for the link.


message 22: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) Below is another link, this one to Polygon Wood:

"The battle of Polygon Wood was the I ANZAC component of a larger British and dominion operation staged as part of the third battle of Ypres. This operation was the second of the "Plummer battles", a serious of well-planned, limited advances supported by large volumes of artillery, masterminded by the British general Herbert Plummer. The name "Polygon Wood" derived from a young plantation forest that lay along I ANZAC's axis of advance.

Scheduled to begin on 26 September 1917, the attack was almost derailed by a German attack on the British X Corps to the south of I ANZAC. A day earlier, Australian troops of the 15th Brigade, preparing for their attack, took part in fending off the Germans; however, their advance the next day began with continuing uncertainty as to the security of their flank.

The British and dominion advance began on schedule at 5.50 am on the 26th, with the 4th and 5th Divisions, on the left and right respectively, taking the lead in the I ANZAC sector. The infantry advanced behind a heavy artillery barrage - the noise of this was compared to a roaring bushfire - and they secured most of their objectives without difficulty. To the south, the 15th Brigade, which after its efforts the previous day had been reinforced by two battalions from the 8th, secured not only its own objectives but those allocated to the neighbouring 98th British Brigade. The Germans launched several counter-attacks but these were thwarted by the heavy defensive artillery barrages used to protect the infantry consolidating on their objectives; this was a feature of the Plummer battles. The battle cost 5,770 Australian casualties.


Polygon Wood


message 23: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Yes, thank you...the World War I Battlefields site is exceptional. The Australians played a major role here and it is a shame that almost 6,000 lives were lost.


message 24: by 'Aussie Rick' (new)

'Aussie Rick' (aussierick) I love this area around Ypres, all amazing places, very touching. So many good men lost from so many countries.


message 25: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new)

Jerome Otte | 4776 comments Mod
Passchendaele in Perspective: The Third Battle of Ypres

Passchendaele in Perspective The Third Battle of Ypres (Pen & Sword paperback) by Peter Liddle by Peter Liddle (no photo)

Synopsis:

Passchendaele In Perspective explores the context and real nature of the participants experience, evaluates British and German High Command, the aerial and maritime dimensions of the battle, the politicians and manpower debates on the home front and it looks at the tactics employed, the weapons and equipment used, the experience of the British; German and indeed French soldiers. It looks thoroughly into the Commonwealth soldiers contribution and makes an unparalleled attempt to examine together in one volume specialist facets of the battle, the weather, field survey and cartography, discipline and morale, and the cultural and social legacy of the battle, in art, literature and commemoration. Each one of its thirty chapters presents a thought-provoking angle on the subject. They add up to an unique analysis of the battle from Commonwealth, American, German, French, Belgian and United Kingdom historians. This book will undoubtedly become a valued work of reference for all those with an interest in World War One.


message 26: by Jill (last edited Aug 21, 2016 06:19PM) (new)

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) Passchendael, which may be one of the WWI battles that best represents the war of attrition, also has another aspect. It was truly international in scope. Below are some of the statistics that show how many different countries were involved in this particular slaughter.

Attrition at Passchendaele

"Along with the intensity of the fighting, the horrendous conditions and the heavy losses of Passchendaele, there is another reason why this campaign universally symbolises such great loss, tragedy and futility above others of the First World War. This is simply because such a high percentage of men experienced it. During the three and a half months it lasted, just over fifty British and Commonwealth infantry divisions, and almost one hundred German ones were committed. It is therefore reasonable to say that about one and a half million men witnessed this battlefield first-hand.

In such a tiny sector of the front, it is difficult to fathom how so many men could have been involved. Across the whole frontage of the sector, only about 10 miles in width, both sides would normally have 10-15 divisions at any one time. But behind them in reserve positions lurked many more, ready to come up in support to either exploit a breakthrough, or (in the case of the Germans), stop one. Due to the intensity of the battle, some units would go into the front line and be decimated in a matter of days so they had to be pulled out and replaced by another division. This went on over and over again; some divisions went in only once, while others were committed several times. It is also worth noting that as the campaign progressed, the frontage under attack gradually narrowed until at the end, it was barely one mile in width (see map at bottom of this article)

Other arms of service supporting the infantry were also in the thick of the action, especially artillery, engineers, supplies, signals, tanks and medical services to name a few. In the case of the Australians for example, while their infantry was committed to six of the eight phases of the campaign, their artillery was involved for its entirety.

The following illustrates the high proportion of divisions committed to Passchendaele throughout the second half of 1917:

* 88 of Germany's 212 divisions, representing approximately 40 % of their army. Many other German divisions spent almost the entire war on the Eastern Front, or opposing the French in the southeastern sectors of the Western Front.
*41 of the British Army’s 66 divisions (nearly two-thirds).
*All four Canadian divisions.
*New Zealand’s one and only division.
*All five Australian divisions.

A useful comparison is the dreadful campaign at Verdun; during this ten-month ordeal in 1916 that cost at least 700,000 French and German casualties, three-quarters of the infantry divisions in the French Army went through it. For the French, Verdun is symbolic of their great sacrifice and the main focal point of their commemoration.

Total casualties at Passchendaele are estimated at 475,000; about 275,000 British and Commonwealth and about 200,000 German. 38,000 Australians, 15,654 Canadians and 5,300 New Zealanders fell there, either killed, wounded or missing. Especially for these smaller nations, Passchendaele was their most costly engagement of the war, indeed their entire military history. Because of the scale of losses and the fact that the Commonwealth nations committed their entire forces to the campaign, it was sadly not uncommon for families to lose several members during it.

With these statistics in mind it is little wonder that after the war ended, the Ypres-Passchendaele area quickly became the focal point for commemoration for all the nations involved in this terrible campaign, and remains so to this day."

(Source: AWM.gov)


message 27: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new)

Jerome Otte | 4776 comments Mod
An upcoming book:
Release date: May 23, 2017

Passchendaele: A New History

Passchendaele A New History by Nick Lloyd by Nick Lloyd (no photo)

Synopsis:

Passchendaele. The name of a small, seemingly insignificant Flemish village echoes across the twentieth century as the ultimate expression of meaningless, industrialized slaughter. In the summer of 1917, upwards of 500,000 men were killed or wounded, maimed, gassed, drowned, or buried in this small corner of Belgium.

On the centennial of the battle, military historian Nick Lloyd brings to vivid life this epic encounter along the Western Front. Drawing on both British and German sources, he is the first historian to reveal the astonishing fact that, for the British, Passchendaele was an eminently winnable battle. Yet the advance of British troops was undermined by their own high command, which, blinded by hubris, clung to failed tactics. The result was a familiar one: stalemate. Lloyd forces us to consider that trench warfare was not necessarily a futile endeavor, and that had the British won at Passchendaele, they might have ended the war early, saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives. A captivating narrative of heroism and folly, Passchendaele is an essential addition to the literature on the Great War.


message 28: by Betsy (new)

Betsy Am sure this will be just one of the books coming out next year, just as this year there were books on Verdun and the Somme.


message 29: by Jill (new)

Jill Hutchinson (bucs1960) I'm sure you are correct, Betsy. The history of WWI must be kept alive since it appears that they barely even touch upon it in school any more.


message 30: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (last edited Sep 28, 2016 12:59PM) (new)

Jerome Otte | 4776 comments Mod
Passchendaele: Requiem for Doomed Youth

Passchendaele Requiem for Doomed Youth by Paul Ham by Paul Ham Paul Ham

Synopsis:.

Passchendaele epitomises everything that was most terrible about the Western Front. The photographs never sleep of this four-month battle, fought from July to November 1917, the worst year of the war: blackened tree stumps rising out of a field of mud, corpses of men and horses drowned in shell holes, terrified soldiers huddled in trenches awaiting the whistle.

The intervening century, the most violent in human history, has not disarmed these pictures of their power to shock. At the very least they ask us, on the 100th anniversary of the battle, to see and to try to understand what happened here. Yes, we commemorate the event. Yes, we adorn our breasts with poppies. But have we seen? Have we understood? Have we dared to reason why? What happened at Passchendaele was the expression of the 'wearing-down war', the war of pure attrition at its most spectacular and ferocious.

Paul Ham's Passchendaele: Requiem for Doomed Youth shows how ordinary men on both sides endured this constant state of siege, with a very real awareness that they were being gradually, deliberately, wiped out. Yet the men never broke: they went over the top, when ordered, again and again and again. And if they fell dead or wounded, they were casualties in the 'normal wastage', as the commanders described them, of attritional war. Only the soldier's friends at the front knew him as a man, with thoughts and feelings. His family back home knew him as a son, husband or brother, before he had enlisted. By the end of 1917 he was a different creature: his experiences on the Western Front were simply beyond their powers of comprehension.

The book tells the story of ordinary men in the grip of a political and military power struggle that determined their fate and has foreshadowed the destiny of the world for a century. Passchendaele lays down a powerful challenge to the idea of war as an inevitable expression of the human will, and examines the culpability of governments and military commanders in a catastrophe that destroyed the best part of a generation.


message 31: by Jerome, Assisting Moderator - Upcoming Books and Releases (new)

Jerome Otte | 4776 comments Mod
An upcoming book:
Release date: June 15, 2017

Passchendaele 1917: The Tommies Experience of the Third Battle of Ypres

Passchendaele 1917 The Tommies Experience of the Third Battle of Ypres by Robert J Parker by Robert J Parker (no photo)

Synopsis:

The Battle of Passchendaele was the most gruesome yet fought during the First World War. The British offensive, also known as the Third Battle of Ypres, was launched on the Belgium battlefield at 3:30am on 31 July 1917 as a massive effort by General Sir Douglas Haig and his British army to achieve a strategic breakthrough and defeat Germany. Attrition would defeat a Germany that was 'on the ropes', and that just 'one more' big push would secure victory. It failed. Passchendaele has become synonymous with the tragedy of the Great War; the abominable conditions of weather, mud and filth, the horrific injuries inflicted by increasingly industrialised warfare including tanks, gas, mines and flamethrowers, the enormous list of casualties (600,000), and the futility of the operation all combined to form a nightmare vision of war in the trenches. What was life like for the common British soldier? Was it necessary or were there alternatives? And what if anything did it achieve? Passchendaele 1917 will seek to answer these questions while reminding us of the sacrifices and heroism of the soldier during the Great War.


message 32: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments Come on 2017, shower us with Passchendaeles both new & reprinted :p


message 33: by Dimitri (last edited Feb 23, 2017 11:25PM) (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments A Moonlight Massacre: The Night Operation on the Passchendaele Ridge, 2 December 1917: The Forgotten Last Act of the Third Battle of Ypres

A Moonlight Massacre The Night Operation on the Passchendaele Ridge, 2 December 1917 The Forgotten Last Act of the Third Battle of Ypres by Michael Locicero by Michael Locicero(no photo)

Synopsis:

The Third Battle of Ypres was officially terminated by Field Marshal Sir Douglas Haig with the opening of the Battle of Cambrai on 20 November 1917. Nevertheless, a comparatively unknown set-piece attack the only large-scale night operation carried out on the Flanders front during the campaign was launched twelve days later on 2 December. This volume is a necessary corrective to previously published campaign narratives of what has become popularly known as Passchendaele .

It examines the course of events from the mid-November decision to sanction further offensive activity in the vicinity of Passchendaele village to the barren operational outcome that forced British GHQ to halt the attack within ten hours of Zero. A litany of unfortunate decisions and circumstances contributed to the profitless result. At the tactical level, a novel hybrid set-piece attack scheme was undermined by a fatal combination of snow-covered terrain and bright moonlight. At the operational level, the highly unsatisfactory local situation in the immediate aftermath of Third Ypres post-strategic phase (26 October-10 November) appeared to offer no other alternative to attacking from the confines of an extremely vulnerable salient. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the affair occurred at the political and strategic level, where Haig s earnest advocacy for resumption of the Flanders offensive in spring 1918 was maintained despite obvious signs that the initiative had now passed to the enemy and the crisis of the war was fast approaching.

"A Moonlight Massacre" provides an important contribution and reinterpretation of the discussion surrounding Passchendaele, based firmly on an extensive array of sources, many unpublished, and supported by illustrations and maps."


message 34: by Dimitri (last edited Feb 23, 2017 04:57AM) (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments A new release for 30 June 2017 :

Passchendaele 1917: Landscape of War

Passchendaele 1917 Landscape of War by Lee Ingelbreght by Lee Ingelbreght

Synopsis:

Commemorates the centennial anniversary of the most terrible battles of the First World War Examines the 'Battlefield of Europe' from a fresh eco-critical perspective Contains reports from eyewitnesses, and dozens of images of the landscape before, during, and after the war In 1914 the area around Ypres was a verdant landscape thick with vegetation, formed and transformed both by nature and human intervention. Before the First World War began, the landscape had already been the setting for multiple battles and military maneuvers, and was known as 'the Battlefield of Europe'. In Passchendaele 1917 Lee Ingelbreght approaches the Great War and the Battle of Passchendaele from a unique angle. Why was the Westhoek such a popular place to fight wars, and what traces have all those military conflicts left on this landscape?"


message 35: by Dimitri (last edited Feb 23, 2017 11:24PM) (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments A new release for 19 July 2017 :

Passchendaele: By Those Who Were There

Passchendaele By Those Who Were There by Bob Carruthers by Bob Carruthers(no photo)

Synopsis:

A fascinating anthology of eyewitness accounts from both the British and German perspective drawn from rare contemporary publications, documents held in archives and museums, field reports, regimental records, battalion and divisional histories.

The result is a comprehensive and vivid impression of what it meant to play a part in the battle which has become synonymous with the sea of mud which characterized the fighting in Flanders.


message 36: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Dimitri thank you for all of the adds - in the future - add one book per comment box - makes for easier reading


message 37: by Dimitri (last edited Feb 23, 2017 02:43PM) (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments Ah, I wasn't sure about that. I'll cut message 33 into sizable bits then. G'nite fir now.


message 38: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Yes please just one book per box


message 39: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments CHris McNab might get a re-release in this centennial year.

Battle Stories — WWI 2-Book Bundle: Somme 1916 / Passchendaele 1917

Battle Stories — WWI 2-Book Bundle Somme 1916 / Passchendaele 1917 by Chris McNab by Chris McNab (no photo)

Synopsis:

Passchendaele is perhaps one of the most iconic campaigns of the First World War, coming to symbolize the mud and blood of the battlefield like no other. Fought for over three months under some of the worst conditions of the war, fighting became bogged down in a quagmire that made it almost impossible for any gains to be made.


message 40: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments Passchendaele: The Anatomy of a Tragedy

Passchendaele The Anatomy of a Tragedy by Andrew Macdonald by Andrew Macdonald Andrew Macdonald

Synopsis:

This extensively researched book tells the story of one of the darkest hours of Australia and New Zealand′s First World War military. With the forensic use of decades-old documents and soldier accounts, it unveils for the first time what really happened on the war-torn slopes of Passchendaele, why, and who was responsible for the deaths and injuries of thousands of soldiers in the black mud of Flanders.

Macdonald explores the October battles of Third Ypres from the perspective of the generals who organised them to the soldiers in the field, drawing on a wide range of evidence held in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain and Germany. His book is far more than a simple narrative of battle and includes critical and comparative assessments of command, personality, training discipline, weapons, systems, tactics and the environment. It looks equally at the roles of infantry, artillery and engineering units, whether Australian, New Zealand, Canadian or British, and in so doing presents a meticulous, objective and compelling investigation from start to finish. Along the way it offers numerous unique insights that have, until now, been obscured by a nearly century-old fog of war.

This book will reshape the understanding of one of the most infamous battles of the First World War.


message 41: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri | 600 comments Passchendaele: The Hollow Victory

Passchendaele The Hollow Victory by Martin Evans by Martin Marix Evans(no photo)

Synopsis:

Passchendaele is one of the most evocative names associated with the Great War. For over 80 years, the battle has epitomized pointless slaughter on an unimaginable scale. The bare statistics are shocking in themselves - the British, French and German armies suffered over half a million casualties between July and November 1917. Ever since, the image of hapless soldiers struggling through the mud and the shellfire has come to represent the futility of trench warfare and the incompetence of their commanders. Yet, as Martin Marix Evans demonstrates in this gripping and perceptive reassessment, some common assumptions about the course of the battle - and the ways in which it was fought - are mistaken and should be looked at again.


message 42: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Thank you Dimitri


message 43: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 16, 2018 03:42PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Passchendaele

Passchendaele by Philip Warner by Philip Warner (no photo)

Synopsis:

On 31st July 1917, the small Belgian village of Passchendaele became the focus for one of the most gruelling, bloody and bizarre battles of World War I. By 6th November, when Passchendaele village and its ridge were captured, over half a million British, French, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and Germans had become casualties.

About the Author:

Philip Warner graduated from Cambridge, served in the British army during the Second World War in the Far East and became Senior Lecturer at The Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst. He is a noted historian of twentieth-century warfare and the author of over fifty books on military history, many published by Pen and Sword including Sieges of the Middle Ages (Pen & Sword Military Classics 2004).

Philip Warner was an outstanding military historian, and for the last 13 years The Daily Telegraph's peerless Army obituarist.

Indeed, he played a vital role in setting the standard for the modern Telegraph obituary. He had a relish for the piquant detail and an understanding that a good story should never be overdressed.

He was a master of the laconic, lapidary phrase. Warner's direct, uncluttered and transparent prose, was a reflection of the man. Above all, he felt deep admiration for the lives he celebrated. His own character, always strong, had been tempered by his terrible experiences at the hands of the Japanese during the Second World War.

One of the Allied soldiers rounded up and imprisoned after the fall of Singapore on February 15 1942, he spent some time in the infamous Changi jail, and worked on the Railway of Death. For every sleeper laid on the 1,000 miles of track through Malaya, Burma and Thailand, a prisoner of war was lost. Philip Warner was saved by his tough-mindedness and by his belief in the virtues of loyalty. To help his fellow prisoners forget their troubles, he organised plays, talks and debates.

Afterwards, he never liked to mention his ordeal. He felt he owed his survival to his physical condition (he performed 30 minutes of exercises every day of his life), his scrupulous hygiene (hard to stick to when one is starving), and to his strong sense of belonging to his family back in Britain. At night he would look at the moon, and think of it passing over Warwickshire.

In 1944 Warner and other able-bodied PoWs were stowed under deck in a troopship (he enjoyed the irony of being almost torpedoed by the Americans), and taken to Japan, where he worked in the copper mines, in dark, hot and dangerous conditions.

As the Americans closed in, he and his fellow PoWs had the unnerving experience of being herded into caves, while the Japanese guards set up machine-guns outside. The atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved the prisoners from massacre.

At the beginning of the war Warner had weighed 14 stone; in 1945 he was 4.5 stone. In 1,100 days of captivity, he only received half a Red Cross parcel. He was never among those inclined to bestow easy forgiveness upon the Japanese. The maltreatment which he had endured increased his natural reticence. Although he set great store by loyalty, he gave his trust warily.

Once certain that he could rely on someone, he would do anything for them; should anyone abuse his trust, he was slow to forgive. "There are six billion people in the world," he was wont to say, "and when this person gets to the top of the pile again, I will give him another chance." After the war Warner taught at Sandhurst and became a prolific writer, turning out more than 50 books.

He would produce two volumes a year, not to mention up to 200 obituaries and many book reviews - all with an absolute minimum of fuss. He worked on the principle that, once he had covered a page with writing, he could always cross it out. He was a firm believer in the virtues of perseverance - "Stick at the wicket and the runs will come" - and in early starts: "One hour in the morning is worth two in the afternoon, is worth three in the evening."

In the 1970s he was seriously ill, but under his colossal labour he throve as never before. Without it, he used to say, he would have had to play golf every day; and, useful player though he was, that was not his idea of a tolerable life.

Though the last man to preach, Philip Warner set a supreme example of how to tackle old age. While eager to enjoy himself, and, still more, to see that his friends enjoyed themselves, he instinctively understood that pleasure is best courted against a background of disciplined endeavour.

Philip Arthur William Warner was born at Nuneaton on May 19 1914.


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