Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

I can't find any threads about this, so I figured I'd throw it out there and see what people said. A user would like to add a book-length dissertation that has no ISBN. I don't see the problem with this (if it someday gets published as a book, we would just combine editions), but does anyone see an issue with it?

We generally only allow works that have been published, in some form or another, no? But that includes self-published and vanity presses. So if it has been self-published (and that's not uncommon for dissertations, particularly in some fields), it seems to meet the criteria to me.

(As the daughter of two PhD's and someone who has spent most of her adult life in academia, I think this is a bizarre request, but that's another matter.)

Well, whatever Rivka says, but unless it's been published I'd say no. If it ever does get published in book form, it's doubtful it will strongly resemble its dissertation state. If it's been self-published, I guess.

I think we actually agree, Lisa. You just phrased it differently. ;)

Also, I'm not a proponent of "whatever Rivka says". Unless you are my offspring. ;) (Or my boss! :D )

Oh I know. I don't always back you up, Rivka, or Goodreads either. It's just this was the first such request I've seen and I figure in the end it's Goodreads that makes these decisions.

Hope it's going well re the offspring. ;-)

That would be more Patrick than me, though.

Anyway, GR is also in favor of group decisions, when practical.

I don't feel strongly about it, but I actually would lean toward allowing it. The definition of "self-published" can be rather vague. My impression is that many universities now publish all of their theses online electronically. I'm pretty sure my university currently does, and a brief google search turned up electronic archives of theses from many universities (e.g., Penn State, Missouri, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin, Oregon state, Pitt, Western Michigan, etc.). How is this different than any other self-published ebook?

My own thesis was not archived this way (predated this sort of archival). However, I was required to submit my thesis to the ProQuest/UMI thesis archive, which some consider a form of publication since it is indexed, stored on microfilm, and available for purchase (for anyone wanting a copy of the thesis).

In fact, I just checked and discovered that my full thesis is available on the ProQuest website (for free) as a PDF! Even more surprising, it has an ISBN!

I just did some more checking. Almost every thesis submitted appears to be available as an online PDF. I just retrieved a PDF copy of my advisor's thesis from 1971. When they started assigning ISBN's, I don't know (my advisor's thesis does not have an ISBN), but they now definitely automatically assign one to every thesis unless it's already been assigned its own independently.

Given that most universities require that theses be submitted to an agency who automatically assign ISBNs and makes them available as PDFs, I don't see why we wouldn't allow them. Because they're not in Amazon/B&N they won't automatically show up in the DB, but is someone wants to add one...

I was not aware of that, Michael. But sure, if it's available in full as an ebook, that counts as published by GR's usual standards.

I'm now inspired. I'm going to add my thesis to my author profile :-)

*LAUGH*

My impression is that many universities now publish all of their theses online electronically.

OMG, that's terrifying--

*checks*

--oh, I did not need to know that.

Cait wrote: OMG, that's terrifying--

*checks*

--oh, I did not need to know that."

LOL. I know what you mean. I discovered this when I had to a fill out a university form when my students graduated that gives permission for the thesis to be published online; I can deny if there is sensitive information (e.g., intellectual property, patents pending) which needs to be kept under wraps.

I can't see that any actual "ruling" on this was made. Personally, I believe theses and dissertations should be listed if someone wants to list one they've read.

I have a number that I have read that are good sources for local history/genealogy, etc. For several reasons cited above I don't see that it's much different from allowing self-published works to be listed on Goodreads.

Many of the self-published are less professionally done that a thesis that can be borrowed on interlibrary loan or purchased.

So, should I list some I've read?

rivka wrote: "But sure, if it's available in full as an ebook, that counts as published by GR's usual standards."

rivka wrote: "rivka wrote: "But sure, if it's available in full as an ebook, that counts as published by GR's usual standards.""

I was actually asking about adding print theses and dissertations, not necessarily digital (however, I believe the same ruling should apply to both).

Print versions are not only available at parent institutions but sometimes they are donated to libraries by the author. Others are purchased through sources like University Microfilms or Proquest and added to collections. Many are available through interlibrary loan.

Print theses are fine if they were published. Having a handful of print copies in existence would not so qualify, even if some were donated to libraries.

But having them as print-on-demand through Proquest should.

I am still puzzled. Do we really want to add all dissertations? Since indeed it is true, they are all available as pdf's nowadays...

Because of this reason, I would incline towards adding only those that were printed and published.

Additional note: no, the universities do not ask for the theses to have an ISBN assigned. For having it the author needs to submit it to a publisher and if they accept, then the thesis appears also on paper. As an author of a phd thesis, I do not think they should be added here. For example I would protest to discover that my thesis appears here. Are we ready to face authors who do not agree to have their work added in this database?

It is no different than the stories on AO3 and other sites like that. Many people over there loathe GoodReads due to the corporate owners.

When they requests that their removed from the rolls, support does so.

As to the ISBN, self-publishing is so cheap now I am surprised that more don't do it.

I would rather have theses than all of the drivel that is sent over by the bots. I do not understand how some of the coloring books are allowed. I know Disney doesn't play around when it comes to their intellectual properties. And yet there are multitudes of "Independently published" books using Disney characters. A true book with Disney characters would have a real publisher.

Books with ISBNs have been removed when the author asks. Unless they agreed to have their wares sold on Amazon, then they have no say in the matter. This, of course, precludes the second-hand sellers. Those are illegal, but it is rarely enforced. Even book being sold at yard sales are technically illegal.