The Mighty Pen Writing Club discussion

This probably sounds negative, but really the purpose is to pay attention to things you see when you read, that you would do differently in your own writing.

For example, are there certain things about characters that you don't like?

What about authors' writing styles?

Do you ever read a book and think, NOTE TO SELF: I shouldn't do that!

Anything you want to say, here's the place to say it!

Yes yes!!! Very often!!! There are a lot of books that frustrate me because the author drags on or kills off a cool character or whatever....I want to hunt them down and smack them!!!

in The Ask and the Answer by Patrick Ness it is annoying me how emphasis (words in italic) like this dont make sense where they are placed.
Ness emphasizes the complete wrong words!
It stops the flow and is annoying!


oh, and in Amelias favorite book, Wicked Lovely I *hated* how Marr would write 'WTF' in normal paragraphs.
Not in dialogue, but in actual describing paragraphs.

yeah her text speech bothers me. Actually, she bothers me all the time. It's best if she and I never cross paths. :P

But yeah! I'm reading this book right now, and while I love it and this is pretty much the only weird thing about it, the author italicizes way too much! It makes the characters' speech sound very strange. But I understand what you're saying. It is distracting and weird.

Hahahaaha...nice. I agree too much of italics makes my brain hurt.

One of my complaints comes from characters.

In a lot of books, girl MCs kind of bother me because they come across as too snarky, too snappy, and too independent. I don't know, those kind of characters make me cringe. I know that's the way that culture's going right now, but sometimes it would be nice to read about genuinely nice characters who aren't always "anything you can do, I can do better!" with all the boys in the book :P

what do you mean?

I actually like Stephenie's writing style, but I can't stand Bella...
O_o
Don't know how to describe it, since the series is written in 1st person, but like the more "Stephenie sounding voice" I liked, but the "Bella voice" made me want to jab an icepick in my ear.

Ooh, me too! Bella for never!!
It annoys me when authors want to describe something and use too many adjectives and stuff and in the end I can't remember what it was they were describing...

Well, that makes two of us.
:)

Jillian -always aspiring- wrote: "I don't like characters who keep making the same mistakes over and over again. . .characters who never seem to attain GROWTH.

I always tell myself two things while writing: my characters need t..."

excellent point! That seems to be a trend among characters, mainly because of the whole "no such thing as mistakes" mentality :P I can't wait to read your stories, Jillian!

Amber wrote: "Me either! And that's true. Characters who do the same thing over and over again bother me, too. There was a quote somewhere that said being an idiot is doing the same thing twice and expecting dif..."

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
hahaha, I love that quote!!! and I totally agree that when characters just hit their head against the wall instead of trying the door (so to speak) it's both annoying and slows down the pacing of the story. And when the story slows down, the reader's interest does too.

Mmm, though someone (the guy with electricity - damn I can't remember his name) said: I haven't failed. I just found 100 ways that don't work.
But I guess it's different because those ways were different and not the same.
Also, I agree with Jillian. Characters need to develop. I mean, throughout the story SOMETHING must have changed in them...

Alkyoni wrote: "Mmm, though someone (the guy with electricity - damn I can't remember his name) said: I haven't failed. I just found 100 ways that don't work.
But I guess it's different because those ways were di..."
"I have not failed 700 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work." -Edison.
If anyone's read Leven Thumps, that's the reason why I didn't like that book. Leven gets all discouraged, then cheered up, then gets discouraged all over again. It would have been better had he been discouraged about different things each time, but it was always the same thing, which slowed the book down ('cause he had to face the same problem over and over again without anything different) and made me lose interest.

Oh right! Edison. Jeez, I'm slow sometimes.. *blush*
Hmmm, I see what you mean I think. I haven't read Leven Thumps though.

Jillian -always aspiring- wrote: "I don't like characters who keep making the same mistakes over and over again. . .characters who never seem to attain GROWTH.

I always tell myself two things while writing: my characters need t..."

Jillian, you have no idea how much I love you right now! When you get something published I will be first to purchase your book(s). I love characters who learn from their mistakes, who grow and become better people. I can't stand stupid characters. Stupid characters make me want to punch things.

I read Leven Thumps...liked some aspects of it. You make a good point, Jess...

I edit manuscripts for authors who want to be published and I am forever reading stuff thinking, "Nope! Not going to do that in my book!"

Even if it's just the overuse of a single word like - "irrevocably" or misplaced sex scenes that should never have happened.

Kat wrote: "I edit manuscripts for authors who want to be published and I am forever reading stuff thinking, "Nope! Not going to do that in my book!"

Even if it's just the overuse of a single word like - "ir..."

The word irrevocably makes me think of Twilight. And not in a good way. *shudder*

(Sorry Twilight lovers, I have a love/hate relationship with the series).

LOL, Penny - it started with Twilight! Lately I've seen the word in so many stories! I think I'm about ready to pull my eyes out!

I don't like that word because I always stutter when I pronounce it :S

And then when I think of it, I hear Kristen Stewart's man-voice in my head, and that drives me crazy :S

I agree with you Jillian. My characters certainly aren't perfect. They tell me their stories and I try to write them the best way I can. However, I don't listen to cads, though. :P
a few of the supporting characters can be described that way, haha, but in my opinion there are way too many cad characters in YA and I hate boys who are like that. Can't stand 'em, because I think that is one of the most abhorrent traits. So the boys whose stories I choose to tell have their act together in that category. However I can't brag on them all too much - one of them is 17 and has a drinking problem :)

Hmm I have to disagree:
I've been through high school and college and honestly, I haven't met that many cads. Most boys I know (though they've all got something) are not players. Now, that goes for my friends and most of my acquaintances. That's probably why I can't stand them so much - I don't really know that many so I have nothing to relate to. I just hear that that's what our society considers normal, and not a whole lot of people in our society are doing anything to change that image, or our acceptance of that image... so it's sad. But in real life, I don't know hardly any :)

that's especially sad that "Christian" boys are doing that - because that's just blatantly unreligious.
Anyway, yeah my school was one of several in the area, so it wasn't like the only religious school around. We have a cap on how many kids are admitted and a really long waiting list, so if you screw up at my school, they will kick you out and they don't care - they'll just take someone else's money. So we really didn't have a lot of discipline problems :P

Of course, I guess it can be said that a lot of girls only think about guys in a superficial way too. Unfortunately I do know a lot of girls like that - haha, the ones who objectify guys :P

@ Penny: Yeah, I have the same relationship with the series too.

Favourite charcter so far who undergoes character growth is Kyle from "Beastly". Guys, i'm sorry, I love the book.

My favorite "change" character so far is Daniel from "The Dark Divine." But yeah, Kyle is a good one, too!

Maybe I should write "change characters." :P Both of my male MCs kinda have their crap together, so they don't undergo much of a change. Except for like, confidence-boosting and stuff like that :D

Hmm, haven't read "The Dark divine" yet. Is it good??
I haven't exactly finished a story so i can't tell whether my characters have undergone any change. i'll keep it in mind though...

I LOVED it!!! It's one of my favorite YA's ever!
PLEASE read it! Pretty, pretty please?

Ok! Since you asked me! (Have to order it though - darn no english bookstores in Greece) ^^
Any other books to recommend??

Wow, I'm learning a lot from the book I'm reading right now.

I'm learning exactly what NOT to do when making a character.

For example, the MC in this book is so shallow, so self-absorbed, so stupid and so obsessive that she has practically no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Now, here's where things get confusing. I don't know if the author actually *meant* to portray her this way (as in, "you're absolutely right! That is her flaw - she doesn't realize other people in the world exist") or if the author, in her weird, warped, shallow mind, actually thinks that her character is just fine.

I mean, my characters have their flaws, but I don't glorify them, and I always give them redeeming qualities. But gawd, this book is so freaking hard to get through, because I've never wanted to strange a character this much since...well, probably either Bella or Katsa.

sheesh, what are you reading?

Forgive My Fins
:P

haha, good luck finishing!!!
Now I'm glad I didn't win it...

ohhh I finally did finish. And then I wrote my review *right* after I finished, so that was definitely something I addressed

Haha, read your review. Thalassinian, comes from the Greek word Θάλασσα meaning sea, which is pronounced thalasa. So I suppose the kingdom can be pronounced as Thalasinian or Thalazinian. (Have you even watched anime? If yes then you'll understand the way I wrote the pronounciation...)

Lately I've seen this a lot with 1st person narratives, and I think that out of other books, they are more prone to this, because the reader is only hearing one very limited perspective at a time, or sometimes all the time, so this is bound to happen:

But I can't stand self-absorbed characters, especially narrators. It's annoying to have a character be selfish and seemingly unconcerned with anybody else's emotions, but it's bad for the reader because the whole time the MC is whining and carrying on, the reader doesn't get any sort of hint at what is going on with other characters: what they are feeling, what they are thinking, and the limitation can be annoying.

For example, much as I like Katniss in The Hunger Games (and I believe she's actually one of the better MCs out there), she has a tendency to be very self-absorbed. She rarely confides in anyone else, and so she comes across as arrogant and inconsiderate of anybody else. Granted, I don't think she's egotistical or vain in the sense that she thinks she's BETTER than anybody else (sometimes she's a little too hard on herself, actually), but she just seems so unaware that the people around her (namely PEETA) have feelings, too. She just said something in the narrative to the effect of "I haven't changed my mind about saving him in the arena, but I don't owe him more than that." (CF, 228).

See, I don't know about the rest of you, but that kind of *attitude* is like fingers on a chalkboard to me. It just reeks of self-centeredness.

So when I write 1st person narratives, it's a challenge to have characters not sound too whiny or self-centered. And when they tell me their story, I on purpose try to get them to empathize with the other characters.

@ Amelia: Oh God, finished HG two weeks ago and I just couldn't help thinking? IS SHE BLIND? I don't think her a bad character - in fact I liked her - but I think that she's social awkward at moments. WHICH IS BAD WHEN SHE DOESN'T SAY SOMETHING WHEN SHE NEEDS TO!!!! Still I love her. I just wish she were at least more consious of people's feelings (Who am I kidding? I wish she were more consious of PEETA'S feelings - see? Wrote it like you. (: )

luuuuuuuuuuv that boy....

luuuuuuuuuuv that boy too

:)

hehe i cant wait for mockingjay AND the movie!!! 2011 is gonna be an awesome movie yr

I think the movie has potential to be really, really cool. If they don't screw it up. :/ Which they probably will. Blah.

WHOA! movie? WHAT MOVIE?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really really hope they dont screw it up dont even say that juliet!!
it definitely has the potential cause its so actiony!!
YES ALKYONI A MOVIE!!! 2011!!!
thats about all the info imdb.com has up right now tho :-/

WHAT???????????????????????
It is in a mere of few months and have only this?
They'll screw it up alright. No way are they putting everything in. Peeta will come of as cheezy and Edwardish and Gale Jacobish. god I'm going to kill myself if they do that. Will electronically beat them up too. The LEAST they could do is get proper actors...

NO!!! dont even SAY that!! no twilighty whatsoever i refuse!! i will boycott!! i will electronically beat them with u!!! AHHH
no. it will be good. it will. be. good.
ill go check if they put anything new up!

ugh no its still 'in development'

I know. Just checked. You sure you don't want to beat them up electronically (just a teeny tiny bit) to make sure they understand the consiquences of screwing up???
Gotta believe it's gonna be good. Am still realistic when I most hate it. Gaaaaaah. Twilight+Hunger Games = Game over, am killing them and then suicide.
Talking of movies, shiver will come out in 2012 and they have more info about it.

oh i havent read that but ive heard of it is that the one about wolves?

Yup. first book it's good, second will read next week.