Fantasy Book Club Series discussion

Well, all of you know by now, Davien is the eagle, or the eagle is Davien. Elaira rode with him to watch the devastation in Daon Ramon.

Selidie caught Lirenda's geas against the Jaelot guardsmen and during punishment for disobedience while Lirenda in terror awaits the wiping of her brain, she observes the ruins of Selidie's hands - burned when she tried to trap Davien (hee hee). She thinks Never before in the order's long history had Fellowship Sorcerers broken through the wards of the Great Waystone. Ath's adepts, or Paravians, none else were capable.

A small detail I lost from first time through.

P. 496, EPUB edition for Nook, it says that when Karadmon possessed Dakar, they shared memories, and Dakar saw whole planets exploding. So they're all part of it - just evidence in the books even if you haven't read Sundering Star with Calum Kincaid and the six genius scientists. They got redemption from the Paravians. :)

Davien is an enigma for sure. He is not discorporate, as he leaves foot prints. Arithon can sense no spells or other magical constructs from the eagle. Clearly he has major differences with the F7. He completely flummoxed Selidie.

And he says of Arithon after he saved the planet from the unbridled destructive force of the lane surge, "For the service rendered to Athera this equinox, Arithon of Rathain is due my undying respect."

Hmmm, I appear to be the only one posting right now. Still, I find it astounding that Asandir is so upset that Arithon entered the maze that he regrets not destroying it years ago after Arithon's forbear died there. A lot of antagonism with Davien, it seems.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Well, all of you know by now, Davien is the eagle, or the eagle is Davien. Elaira rode with him to watch the devastation in Daon Ramon.

Selidie caught Lirenda's geas against the Jaelot guardsme..."

I noticed that quote too. I also thought it was significant. Am I reading it wrong, but to me it seems like Ath's Adepts and Paravians were capable of breaching the shields, and have done it before, but not the Fellowship sorcerers.

I thought there might be spoilers in this thread, so I've avoided it until now.

Pertaining to Davien, it seems like he is the one who is avoiding all of the others. Sethvir keeps calling to him, but he doesn't come. I think Sethvir would really like to have a long, in-depth talk with Davien about what in the world he's doing, what his motivations are, and come help us restore balance to the world.

What did you think of the Koriani's perceptions of Davien? It seems like Selidie/Morriel thinks that he is acting in discord with the others, which might lead her to try to manipulate him again, even if she can't trap him like she tried to before, failing abysmally.

Amelia said: What did you think of the Koriani's perceptions of Davien? It seems like Selidie/Morriel thinks that he is acting in discord with the others, which might lead her to try to manipulate him again, even if she can't trap him like she tried to before, failing abysmally.

I agree, but I don't think Davien has much use for the Koriani, per his blocking of their attempt to 'call' Elaira. I think Davien is way smarter than the Koriani as are Ath's Adepts. I think you're right about them being able to break the shields and not the F7. They're the only ones that can break the Great Waystone or the other one, whose name escapes me at the moment.

The Skyron crystal.

Jeff wrote: "The Skyron crystal." Thanks, Jeff. I knew someone would fill the breach, :)

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Amelia said: What did you think of the Koriani's perceptions of Davien? It seems like Selidie/Morriel thinks that he is acting in discord with the others, which might lead her to try to manipulate ..."

I don't think the Koriani will be able to manipulate Davien either. I do think that the Prime thinks she might be able to and Davien likes to let her think that.

I've finished the book now, so I read the end where Arithon is staying with Davien. That will really make an interesting alliance. Now that we've actually met Davien, I can see why Dakar thought Arithon was a lot like him.

Amelia: I've finished the book now, so I read the end where Arithon is staying with Davien. That will really make an interesting alliance. Now that we've actually met Davien, I can see why Dakar thought Arithon was a lot like him.

Too true, and I grinned when the F7 were bemoaning the possibilities of their collaboration!

Okay, I can't remember the details now, but I think I'm correct when I recall a prophesy that indicates that Arithon is crucial for any hope of restoring the F7 to, you know, 7. Well then, maybe they should quit having a cow about Arithon taking a trip to Davien's Maze--how's Arithon supposed to reunite them all if he only ever hangs out with the F7 who are in good standing? :D

I think that was back in Curse, and it was going to take both princes to restore the F7. And because Davien is 'the betrayer' and was instrumental in overthrowing the old king system, the F7 don't trust him. I don't think they thought Arithon would survive the maze. But good question, perhaps revealing some short sightedness on the part of the rest of the F7.

It's late here too, I'm getting a bit punchy. You'd think the wise and mighty F7 would have a better eye for where the plot needs to go... :)

:D

Look up King Kamridian's history. ;)

There's more to this than meets the eye (also). T'will unfold in due time.

Where would I look for his history? I poked around on the Paravia.com website but couldn't find it.

I suddenly feel like the student who, when asked to look up the McCarthy hearings, said there wasn't anything about them on the internet--maybe I haven't looked closely enough, but I swear I didn't give up easily! :)

Well, King Kamridian died in the maze, compliments of his s'Ffalenn conscience, but I haven't yet found his history. He's first mentioned in the triplet entitled 'Lynchpins' in Peril's Gate. Thereafter he's mentioned again as Sethvir and Asandir stew with anxiety that Arithon is now in Kewar's Tunnel.

John wrote: "Where would I look for his history? I poked around on the Paravia.com website but couldn't find it.

I suddenly feel like the student who, when asked to look up the McCarthy hearings, said there..."

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Well, King Kamridian died in the maze, compliments of his s'Ffalenn conscience, but I haven't yet found his history. He's first mentioned in the triplet entitled 'Lynchpins' in Peril's Gate. Ther..."

Sandra's post is accurate.

I'd suggest, John, that you start with the glossary in Peril's Gate.

Here's where ebooks come in handy, as I did a search for King Kamridian in Peril's Gate. I was going to search the earlier books as well to see if he shows up before, but I haven't gotten to it.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Here's where ebooks come in handy, as I did a search for King Kamridian in Peril's Gate. I was going to search the earlier books as well to see if he shows up before, but I haven't gotten to it."

Don't rub this in - laugh - I still have to do it by memory and page flipping. Luckily, I usually know where to flip.

I didn't find much about Kamridian in the glossary in Peril's Gate--just a couple sentences. You must have the special Author's Edition, Janny! :)

I looked on the internet and found a reference in Fugitive Prince (on Google Books, but it only has some pages, so I couldn't read as much as I wanted--and I had checked FP out of the library):

"You want a mitigator," Kharodmon burst out, his mercuric impatience the springboard to seize on the direction of Sethvir's thinking. "Someone to reforge the bond of trust with himself? Who's to ask? Daelion Fatemaster wept! We're talking of Kamridian s'Ffalenn's direct descendant, and nothing we tried in that hour of trial turned his mind to seek self-redemption."
"I know." Sethvir reclaimed his tea mug and sipped its cold contents as he shared consternation and the grievous past memory of a valiant s'Ffalenn High King, driven to his

And that's where it goes to the next page, which is not included on-line. That's page 420 of whatever edition, and it looks like we're just about to get some history there. Anyone able to look that up? It's in the chapter "Appeals," Early Spring 5653.

In the ebook, under 'Lynchpins' it says 'The Warden of Althain lies imprisoned in bed, staying the flawed seals on three grimwrds; when his earth-sight reveals an eagle in flight over the Mathorn ranges with a lone fugitive following, his fists clench in helpless remembrance of High King Kamridian, who had set foot into Kewar Tunnel, and encountered the Maze of Davien, and died, entangled by the thorns of his conscience, and his born gift of s'Ffalenn compassion...'

Then later there's this quote: 'Soft, silent, more subtle than spider silk, the wardspells wrought by Davien the Betrayer wove him round, as they had every being, humanborn, or Paravian, who had crossed that dread threshold ahead of him. As they had his ancestor, High King Kamridian, who had died here, broken and screaming.'

Then later this: 'Asandir weighed the scar left by King Kamridian's death. The likelihood that the last living s'Ffalenn prince might suffer the same fate transfixed him with distress.'

Asandir says 'I have always regretted that the cavern and maze were never destroyed on the hour of Kamridian's death.'

Elaira, watching in her crystal, collapses and allows the crystal to be lifted out of her grasp. 'Kamridian s'Ffalenn died of his royal conscience,' she murmured, dazed by wild grief, while other hands pressed a clear elixir to her lips, and soothing voices urged her to swallow.

There's more along those lines. Then, in the maze, Arithon understands how Kamridian s'Ffalenn had met tormented death in this place.

I don't think we get any detailed history about Kamridian other than that he died in horrible agony, torn apart by his compassion and his guilt.

John wrote: "I didn't find much about Kamridian in the glossary in Peril's Gate--just a couple sentences. You must have the special Author's Edition, Janny! :)

I looked on the internet and found a reference ..."

John - here's the tail of that reference (from the page break) 'doom in the Maze of Davien, where the Betrayer's insidious coils of truth spells faced a man with his own mirror image. Arithon's ancestor had died, torn apart by the pangs of guilt-driven conscience. The thread that had seen him undone, at the last WAS HIS LINE'S ROYAL GIFT of compassion.
(and this is Kharadmon's response) "We lost King Kamri despite every conscious protection, and he had no damning entanglement with the effects of s'Ahelas foresight."

Figure from here, and the broad hint, given.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "In the ebook, under 'Lynchpins' it says 'The Warden of Althain lies imprisoned in bed, staying the flawed seals on three grimwrds; when his earth-sight reveals an eagle in flight over the Mathorn r..."

Put together what you have, and what John found and see just a step farther...where do you land, then?

Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "In the ebook, under 'Lynchpins' it says 'The Warden of Althain lies imprisoned in bed, staying the flawed seals on three grimwrds; when his earth-sight reveals an eagle in f..."

Maybe I'm dense right now, but I haven't the foggiest idea ... maybe it will come to me later.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "In the ebook, under 'Lynchpins' it says 'The Warden of Althain lies imprisoned in bed, staying the flawed seals on three grimwrds; when his earth-sight reveals..."

Well, if it doesn't come to you, it will become broadside plain, as the series unfolds and progresses.

From my quick read of this group, (I'm not doing so good keeping up now that I've finished), it looks like the gift of compassion killed Kamridian. I think that gift will certainly play a very large role in the books to come. Arithon's gift is even more complicated with the far-sight thrown it. It really amazes me how strong Arithon is. Plus, I think in his case, he made a lot of good friends, (is there a work stronger than friend, because they're more than friends), who came to him during his trial and helped him get through it. I love that section. There's so much packed into it.

Yeah, Amelia! I've missed you over here! Chime in whenever!

I think the operative word for Arithon's friends is loyal subjects, although I'm sure he wouldn't like to think of them that way. But he does win their undying love and loyalty with his integrity and honor.

Amelia wrote: "From my quick read of this group, (I'm not doing so good keeping up now that I've finished), it looks like the gift of compassion killed Kamridian. I think that gift will certainly play a very lar..."

Hi Amelia - the fact you (and Sandra) have finished arc III does provide a unique perspective. Glad to see you back to join in! That change in outlook can be very vivid, in hindsight. Different details spring forward and open up - once you aren't reading to 'see what happens' other angles of tension become apparent. A relook at a prior scene, or a re-read can open up an entirely different train of suspense.

Yes, my rereads have been very enlightening. Will be re-reading Traitor's Knot with this group.

Oh I definitely want to reread this series. I just have a huge pile of books that built up while I was reading this series. Lol! This is one I keep recommending to others. I don't know if they've taken me up on it yet, but I hope they will.

Loyal subjects is a good term to use for those around him.

Hopefully this isn't a spoiler. But I think that Davien was watching Arithon for quite a while, has plans for him and used the maze to train, strenghten, and teach him so he'll be able to suceed in carrying out those plans. I think that's actually why Davien built the maze in the first place. He needed someone strong enough to do what needs to be done. So far, Arithon is the only one who's made it through, so he is the prime (and only) candidate. I have some suspicions what his plans might be, but I can't say here.

Man, I hadn't read the discussion on the magic yet. It looks like some of these ideas were discussed over there. And it looks like I'm somewhat off. Back to the think tank again.

Well, maybe somewhat off, but not far. I, too, think Davien has been looking for someone to successfully undergo the maze transformation, and Arithon sure did.

***SPOILER***

Isn't it in Traitor's Knot where Davien questions just exactly what or who Arithon is? So I'm not sure that Davien has had him in mind specifically. But assuredly in Peril's Gate he says Arithon has earned his undying respect for what he did for Athera during the lane peril from Morriel's meddling.

Amelia wrote: "Oh I definitely want to reread this series. I just have a huge pile of books that built up while I was reading this series. Lol! This is one I keep recommending to others. I don't know if they'v..."

Amelia, if they take you up on the read, feel free to tell them the discussion of earlier volumes is not closed. Anyone's free to jump in at any time, any stage.

Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Oh I definitely want to reread this series. I just have a huge pile of books that built up while I was reading this series. Lol! This is one I keep recommending to others. I don't..."

I keep nudging them to get on goodreads first. I've got several to come on. Now I just need them to come over here. I think my brother has joined one of my groups (I don't think it's this one). He's one that I think would really enjoy this series. I can keep bugging him until he reads it. Right now he's busy with school.

Sandra, by the time I get to the end of the comments, I usually forget what book we're talking about and have to go and check. I don't remember that part in particular. I have to say that I agree that Arithon has grown and struggled to become what Davien was looking for. I don't know how he fits in with his plans. I also must say that the more I got to know Davien, the more I liked him. He reminds me of Han Solo, just a little, in that he's kind of a ruffian, very stubborn, but in his heart is a good guy.

Amelia wrote: "Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Oh I definitely want to reread this series. I just have a huge pile of books that built up while I was reading this series. Lol! This is one I keep recommending to ot..."

I know about the forgetting what happens when and also forgetting many details. I will say, however, that the reread was very useful in that regard. I stopped after Peril's Gate and plan to continue reread when we're discussing Traitor's Knot. I don't like the thing of reading one month and discussing the next. I always want to discuss while I'm rereading, and perhaps we could benefit by breaking the discussions up into segments of the book from now on?

Traitor's Knot finally came through ILL, so even though it would be hurry ahead of the group's theoretical timetable, I've started it. Of course, as busy as work keeps me, it will probably be slow going with at least one renewal of the book in my future!

While technically "Betrayer" could be an accurate name for Davien, I keep thinking he has actually been working for the good of the planet and the Paravians all along. That he felt certain events had to happen, or certain things had to be in place, and the rest of the Fellowship did not agree with his vision. His betrayals and trickery are for the right reasons on the grand scale, even if cruel or brutal on the small scale. I think he has avoided the rest of the Fellowship because he both needs to keep focused and also does not want them spending time on him that they need for other purposes. I don't see him in conflict with the Fellowship over the final goal, even though both Selidie and the Fellowship think there is one.

Mawgojzeta wrote: "While technically "Betrayer" could be an accurate name for Davien, I keep thinking he has actually been working for the good of the planet and the Paravians all along. That he felt certain events ..."

I agree !