The Sword and Laser discussion

I am half way through The Blade Itself right now and I am finding the lack of a world map a little distracting. So much so that I went searching for one, only to find a blog posting from Joe Abercrombie himself discussing why he did not include one in this series of stories. While I understand his reasoning, the lack of a map is making it hard for me to fully engage the story.
Any story that drops the reader into an unfamiliar world with countries and continents that you have never seen should provide some sort of reference point. Even an authors rough draft would suffice for me. Just something that lets you say "ahh so that is where the beautiful city lies and the barbarian hordes will have to cross that mountain range if they wish to lay siege"

So what do you guys think? Does the lack of a world map bother you, or do you like that the author is letting your imagination create its own?

I know that I am not normal in this regard, I hate maps in fantasy books. I never use them. It's fantasy, I use my imagination.

In real life, I'm really bad at reading maps and prefer written directions, especially with landmarks.

It doesn't matter to me either way to be honest. I think they are neat when they are included, but it doesn't take anything away for me if they aren't included.

I replied to this somewhere, but it's not here....hmm. Anyway, I'm with Xebix. They're neat if they're there, but I almost never use them to augment the story or figure out where things are going on. I also listen to a ton of fantasy on audio, where a map is obviously not included, and I don't find I "miss" it.

Micah wrote: "I am half way through The Blade Itself right now and I am finding the lack of a world map a little distracting. So much so that I went searching for one, only to find a blog posting ..."
We discussed this in another post, the one Tom started comparing Angland to GoT universe. There is a link to a map for The Blade Itself trilogy there, if you are so inclined. What is funny about this, is that I am about 30% into the Game of Thrones and reading it on my Kindle. I have the feeling there is a map in the original books, but have not seen on the Kindle yet. Maybe they are in the index, but getting there and back again can be a hassle. So with a little probing on the internets I found a great map of Westeros and printed it up. The thing with maps is that all I really want is a sense of the geography, not a detailed point by point reference. The world in The Blade Itself is a bit confusing as it is laid out in a circular fashion with Adua in the dead center. That itself is mentioned in the book, but seeing it really reinforces a lot about the character and politics of the Union and their sense/relationship of the world around them. I do think Abercrombie is changing his view of maps. In the upcoming new book "Heroes" I have read that maps will be included as the book is really about one large battle over the course of many days. Battle maps are essential, whether it be historical accounts or fantasy. Tolkien should have included specific battle maps (i.e. Helms Deep) at the time, imho, but alas we had to wait until the movies were release to fully fit the words to our minds eye.

I am such a "map guy" in real life that it is no surprise to me that having a map in a fantasy book is a big help to me. I like to get my brain "placed" in the physical world. So, the lack of one here really was a hindrance to immersion.

I do not mind not having the author provide maps. I find that when they do they sometimes seem to have a map that is not quite to scale or suggests the protagonists are capable of daily 50-mile marches. Not likely!

But, ever since I had to map out the twisty little passages, all alike in Adventure and Zork in order to play those games (a long time ago), while I read I keep a rough map in my head of the world of the story. Is it accurate? Is it similar to the author's? Well, my wife is in charge of navigation of trips, so perhaps not.

It has to have a map if I am going to not get distracted trying to sequence where someone is and where they go etc. No map and I am always thinking about location and distance in my head and I miss plot elemments all the time or I read much slower as I try to figure it out mysself.

I'll glance at the map if there is one occasionally but I won't analyze it and commit anything to memory.

One of my favorite books on my shelf is the Atlas of Middle Earth, which contains not only detailed maps of every area during every "Age", it also follows each journey, showing each day's camp site, battle movements, etc.

I think maps enhance the experience for me by increasing the level of immersion. If a fantasy book doesn't have one, I tend to feel a little lost if the author jumps from one location to the next. I remember GRRM tended to provide us with maps, but would often throw in dozens of locations that weren't depicted. At times it was hard for me to fully understand what was going on as a result. I'm a visual person, but I will just make up some goofy map in my head if there isn't one. If the book takes place on earth, or is an alternate-reality earth, I still appreciate a map, because I will be compelled to go find one online anyway, but a map in the book is much easier.

I'm sure an argument could be made that if the author was incredibly skilled, there is no need for such a thing as a map. I prefer having my cake and eating it too, so give me great writing and a map.

terpkristin: i deleted the other thread where you replied because I made a mistake and ended up double posting the same thread. Sorry :(

Curt wrote: "We discussed this in another post, the one Tom started comparing Angland to GoT universe. There is a link to a map for The Blade Itself trilogy there, if you are so inclined. "

Curt thanks for letting me know about the link. I had not checked out the other threads yet because I did not want to see any spoilers. I quick scanned the thread and found the link. The map looks great and is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks again.

It looks like people are about 50/50 on the map issue. Nice to know I am not the only one that feels a little lost in a fantasy land with out some point of reference.

Every piece of fiction in the real world has a map available even if the author doesn't include it in the publication. Given that base level of map availability, I don't think it should surprise authors of fantasy that some people get annoyed if they don't include a map.

Personally, I am a visual thinker. I'm constantly making diagrams and sketches so as to be able to get things into my head. So when I'm confronted with a fantasy novel that involves a lot of travel but there is no map, I'm stuck with a real feeling of disorientation the entire time I'm reading it. So don't feel alone Micah, I'm equally lost without a map.

Necrobump!

I never had any trouble following the events of the First Law books without a map (there really aren't that many locations, to be honest), but Abercrombie has apparently heard the cries and is sorta including maps in his subsequent works. The wraparound cover art for Best Served Cold includes a map and each chapter begins with a section of the map. Piecing them together forms a complete map of Styria.

Upcoming book, The Heroes, is supposed to be setup in a similar manner (cover art is awesome but has little First Law spoilers). There will be maps for five battles that detail troop movements and everything.

I'll probably make a different thread for why you should buy The Heroes, but I just wanted to let anyone who was put off by the lack of maps to know they don't have to give up reading these great books.

Oh, found an unofficial fanmade map a while ago. Might be of some interest.

this is 50/50 answer unfortunatly.
It depends on how and what het book is about, some give enough general referance that you dont need a map, some books though talk about well if this country/kingdom is attacked t will cuase this country/kingdom to react to what he people over on that side are doing.. thats when a map is a little more useful.

I didn't realize there wasn't a map because I'm listening to it on Audible. I kept looking for maps online without any luck until I landed here. I love maps and I always want to see even a rough outline of a map if I can.

I'm just about 50% of the way through the first book and I figured that the world here was similar to the actual world map. Angland being the South of England and Wales. The North Lands being Scotland, The Thousand Islands as Asia, Gurkhul being Africa and Adua being some where in Eastern Europe, maybe France.

@DJ: "Somewhere in Eastern Europe, maybe France" --> man, you *do* need maps!

Nope. Don't care.