My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

...What about it? '-_-

...What?

Well we could start off here:


"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
-David Hume

Quite honestly, I don't think that if there is a god, he should baby us all. Even our biological parents don't (or really shouldn't :P) do that....It helps you grow and get stronger, for one thing.

However! (xD) "Sins" like murder, rape, and abuse are truly unnecessary, and a loving God would not have allowed them to remain in the world, I'm fairly sure....

Suffering is the consequence of sin.

I don't think suffering is the consequence of sin, look at the story of Job in the Bible. Or at D&C Section 122: verse 7:
'And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy own good.'

Girl4beluga wrote: "Or maybe the point of suffering is to make people mature in mental, physcial, or even spiritual health. It would be difficult to argue that the bad things that have happened to me have not helped m..."

Well, in my religion we believe that those mentally are 'handicapped', that they are Celestial beings and are perfect.
Close to where I live, the church has what we call a developmental center. There volunteers (who've been trained) take care of those physically and mentally handicapped. The youth of the church in the area, everyone goes there at least once a year (scheduled with your ward though you can also just go and volunteer) to help them on Sundays with sacrament meeting and Wednesdays ore a little dance that happens.
Most of the people there are in wheel-chairs, most of them you can't understand them when they talk, you are assigned to a person (the opposite gender of you) and push their wheel-chair and help them. One time when I went, it was the first Sunday of the month so it was testimony meeting. It was so sweet, this one volunteer called for the cordless mike and then went to one of the residents who wanted to share their testimony, none of us could understand what she was saying but you could feel the spirit so strongly when you are with these people.

Girl4beluga wrote: "The consequence for sin is death.....that's kinda the idea of sacrifice (I don't use that word though).


Hey Heather, do you mind giving us how you interpret that?"

Trials help you grow, make you come stronger. Trials are more to test us. People with strong faiths are always tested hard because Satan wants to knock them down because they pose as a great threat.

Heather wrote: "I don't think suffering is the consequence of sin, look at the story of Job in the Bible. Or at D&C Section 122: verse 7:
'And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers,..."

No, not in that case. That was a trial.....God was testing Job. I mean that if Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, there wouldn't be sickness or suffering. Only after they ate the fruit was there death...everything used to be perfect.

So, billions of people have had their lives ruined because of two people who lived thousands of years ago? ...Is your God not supposed to be somewhat decent?

Is it even worth discussing it with you?

If you make your argument at all logical, yes.

You believe that all actions have consequences, right?

Not all, but continue.

Well, Adam and Eve's act had a consequence....."You shall not eat is, nor shall you touch it, lest you die."
The death wasn't a physical death, but a spiritual death of separation with God.

Alright....

What else do you need? It's logical.....

♥ Rachel♥ wrote: "So, billions of people have had their lives ruined because of two people who lived thousands of years ago? ...Is your God not supposed to be somewhat decent?"

So, they directly disobeyed an order from God and had an overly extreme punishment...so why are we, generations later, still being punished?

We're humans too! We sin and are punished for it! If you were Adam or Eve, what would you have done? It's easy to say that we wouldn't have succumbed to Satan's tempting.

Where did I say I wouldn't have? However, we are not given even the slightest chance. How is that in the slightest fair?

What chance? Even if we had a chance, we would still choose sin because we are human and without God, you cannot do right.

We suffer because life is rough and not perfect. It has nothing to do with an unsupported belief in God or sin.

Yeah, I agree with Nathan.

Ahh..I didn't know that.

Breanna wrote: "What chance? Even if we had a chance, we would still choose sin because we are human and without God, you cannot do right."

This is what I said....

Girl4beluga wrote: "PS...in the Christian traditions the punishment for sin is death that is why people sacrificed animals."

Really? Ugh :P I really want to be 100% atheist now....

I wouldn't blame you.

I don't believe that God directly interferes with the physical world.

So are you a Deist?

Liberal Quaker, though my idea of God is probably more Deist than Christian. I was raised Christian/Catholic, and it's odd enough not considering myself Catholic anymore. I find it even harder to move past the Christian label, even though, like I said, my beliefs tend to be more Deist than strictly Christian. (It was honestly difficult to write that just there...I ended up deleting and rewriting it about four times...)

Girl4beluga wrote: "This is probably one of the most difficult things to address logically.....anyone want to give it a shot?"

I am a nurse and I work with people who are dying. I see a lot of physical suffering. I have the things I need to help with that but, the psychological suffering of the patient/family/friends is not as easy to relieve.
There are many unresolved issues and I try to encourage my patients and their families to resolve issues and get to a good place and accept their destiny.

I haven't I don't remember posting that I never posted that *goes to change password*



wait did my grandma post that I logged on on her computer and I think I may have accidentaly set it to remember my password

Whoa...that's kind of...weird /: I went on my grandma's computer too, but made sure to sign out..and not remember my password(; is your grandma a nurse?

Or someone in your family?

Ahh it was my grandma I just texted her. oh well lol.

*Mrs.Brightside* wrote: "Whoa...that's kind of...weird /: I went on my grandma's computer too, but made sure to sign out..and not remember my password(; is your grandma a nurse?"

Yeah my grandma's a nurse lol that's why I thought it might be her which it was.

You texted her? Lol. But I liked how she said to accept your destiny.

lol shes not a normal old grandma (nor is she very old). And yeah I agree I like that part too.

Same(; well, she is getting older....but I have another grandma who isn't old (but doesn't have a phone!).

XD

Breanna wrote: "Suffering is the consequence of sin."

So all the people who have cancer or AIDS or any other kind of sickness has sinned?

Anna wrote: "Breanna wrote: "Suffering is the consequence of sin."

So all the people who have cancer or AIDS or any other kind of sickness has sinned?"

Well, yes, because everyone has sinned. But God could just be using something like that to bring the person to Himself. Not everything is a judgment.

Why to which part :)

Well, yes, because everyone has sinned.

I have never sinned.

@Sandy: Eh... How come that people who rape another person can go trough life without any kind of punishment, and then people who haven't done anything worse than stealing a piece of candy from a cinema when they were kids go trough those kinds of thing? And like G4b asked, why not a positive experience?

@Nathan: Hehe, atheists I assume? ;)

Of course ;-)

Fair enough ;) I guess it's cool like that, never sinning 'cause there is no God xD

Yeah, makes life what it should be. Deciding for yourself what is truly right and wrong and acting accordingly.

Hey! A person is perfectly capable of having a religion and following their own path at the same time. I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in everything the Bible says.

I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in everything the Bible says.

But you believe wrong and right is dictated by an invisible man in the sky. I do not.