Supernatural Fiction Readers discussion

We're far enough into the month that I thought it might be appropriate to have a spoiler thread, where those who want to discuss the ending, etc. can have a forum that won't put spoilers on the main thread for those who haven't finished (or started! :-) ) the book yet. Alice (if you've got computer access at the moment), I know you've read this several times; what did you think of the ending? Did you interpret it as unrelievedly dark, or more positive than that?

I'm still waiting on my copy. It was ordered on 5Nov, but still hasn't been sent through BookMooch.

Hmmmm! Jim, if the book owner hasn't marked it as sent yet, I'd send him/her a reminder. Hope you get action on this soon!

Werner wrote: "We're far enough into the month that I thought it might be appropriate to have a spoiler thread, where those who want to discuss the ending, etc. can have a forum that won't put spoilers on the mai..."

Definitely unrelievedly dark to me Werner. There is something so strange to me about about Lavinia's story that I am always trying to figure it out but never feeling satisfied. It seemed so unexpected that she killed her baby. I am always wondering was it a mad impulse or did she plan it. Maybe she was totally out of her mind and had no idea what she was doing?

It seemed Deb was the only one who could deal with it. She had to leave her husband and hide so she became a writer but her stepmother called on her for help as she was the most reliable one of the daughters.

I have two hardbacks of this book and would send you one but you are about to go off to Australia. Maybe when you get back. I got one on eBay. It was in a big box of NL books.

Alice, thanks for the offer! If you want to get rid of one of your copies, and can't dispose of it closer to hand, I'll be glad to take it next year.

A crucial question in interpreting the ending here is, who do you think fathered Lavinia's baby? Her assertion that the other Satanists had called her "the Chosen One," and promised her a painless childbirth (which, according to traditional Roman Catholic dogma, the Virgin Mary supposedly also had) leads me to think it wasn't Mr. Fremlin. Lofts is deliberately oblique here, to heighten the forbidding veil of ominous mystery; but I believe she means us to infer that Lavinia was impregnated by Satan, to bear his child into the world for some definitely dark and evil purpose. Her motive for killing it was, if I'm right, rage and pique at being lied to, and her action thwarted Satan's plan --which makes the ending not completely dark, though it's dark enough. (Killing herself once she'd killed the baby was understandable; in that time and place, they hanged people who committed infanticide, and she no doubt guessed that while her mother would cover up an out-of-wedlock pregnancy for her, she wouldn't cover up murder.)

There are other aspects of the ending that lighten it a bit, IMO. We get the indication that while life won't be a bed of roses for any of the women left behind, they're moving on from this tragedy and ready to face the ensuing challenges of life as survivors. I was particularly glad to see the hint that Mrs. Thorley was recognizing her drinking problem, and setting her strong will to say "no" to it --she was my favorite character in the book, and I think a descent into permanent alcoholism on her part would have been a really painful tragedy to read about.

Werner wrote: "Alice, thanks for the offer! If you want to get rid of one of your copies, and can't dispose of it closer to hand, I'll be glad to take it next year.

A crucial question in interpreting the endi..."

I have no need for two copies and have just been hanging onto it until someone wanted it. Just don't let me forget as my short term memory has been bad lately. I will feel more perky once we get past the solstice. I am super sensitive to the light.

The first times I read this book I never thought of it as Rosemary's baby story but now it seems to fit. I just thought of it as Mr. Fremlin's child and could never figure out why they abandoned Lavinia. Even in Rosemary's baby the coven hovered around her to help her and take care of the baby. Its such a mystery. NL could have written another whole book to explain this. Do you think she was influenced by Rosemary's Baby?

My favorite character was Deb. I have been in her situation somewhat and she also reminded me of my cousin. I liked Mrs. Thorley too. What a strong woman. I guess the only person I didn't care much for was the one who married the lawyer. I felt sorry for her tho. She really got taken in by Spicer IMO. I also liked Caro (monkey face?). She was so funny. She somehow reminded me of another NL character. I think it was the one who went to school with Jassy....Dilley's I think was her name. It seems she was married to Barney Hatton at one point but I am drifting away from the subject.

Back to the NE quiz. I am moving along fast!!!! Surprised.

Lady Alice wrote: "NL could have written another whole book to explain this." Well, in a way maybe she did; the sequel, The Haunting of Gad's Hall, probably adds to and further explains our picture of the events in the first book.

Rosemary's Baby was written in 1967, ten years before Gad's Hall; we can infer that Lofts read widely, and given themes that appear in her own fiction, we can guess that she was probably at times a reader of supernatural fiction written by others. But anything beyond that, IMO, is speculative; we don't know, without more evidence, whether she ever read Levin's book and was influenced by it, or whether both writers simply drew independently on a common store of ideas and imagery that people have sometimes associated with Satanists/Satanism. (I've never read the Levin book myself; if I had, I could compare the two and maybe form a more educated guess about literary relationships.)

I liked Deb, too. She and Isabel Thorley were a lot alike, and Mrs. Thorley recognized it. Caro and Di came across to me as less likable (though Caro did have a mordant wit); but they both had their good qualities along with their faults, like most Lofts characters.