Jane Austen discussion

This thread is for discussing Chapters 11 through 20 of Gaskell's novel. Please give notice of spoilers if you comment on something late in this section or in a later section. Now, let's see what else is in store for Molly Gibson, her doctor father, and everyone else!

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Well, I guess the most important events of this section are the death of Mrs. Hamley and the arrival of Cynthia. I am liking Molly as a character more and more, and Cynthia seems intriguing. It remains to be seen whether she will turn out to be someone we care about.

I am also liking the way Gaskell writes, having only read one of her other novels so far. Her style seems very unflashy but can be very pointed at moments.

Overall, bring on the next section!

Why do you think Molly's father doesn't want her to be educated? He seems to love her a lot; she is the most important person in his life and they have a warm relationship. But he doesn't seem to want her to become all she has the potential to become; he seems to want to keep her a child.

I love that as soon as Cynthia arrives, she becomes an ally to Molly. Molly needs one!

IMHO it seems that he wishes to keep Molly pure, and it seems, in this time period, too much knowledge in a women decreases a little of her virtue. I'm not sure if Mr. Gibson is being old-fashioned or just true to the time, but this is the way it feels to me. If we compare Molly to Cynthia and her worldliness, we see how Gaskell may be setting up a scenario of contrast. What I do find interesting is Mr. Gibson's choice of a wife. I really don't think he gave it very much thought. He chose a woman who he apparently wished to look after his daughter, but she herself sent her daughter away and raised her completely antithetical to the way Molly was raised.
I love how Cynthia and Molly link up and show affection for each other immediately. It must be true that opposites do attract.

Great comments, Susan.

Cynthia is very different from Molly and Mr. Gibson, but I think it's because of her background, not her inherent nature. She is able to recognize and admire their goodness, and to wish she could be more like them. I think she has a very good heart. I don't think Hyacinth has a good heart. And she can't recogize the goodness of Molly and Mr. Gibson, either.

Could we also have a Wives and Daughters movie thread put up. Haven't read the book but have seen the movie.

Alicia wrote: "Great comments, Susan.

Cynthia is very different from Molly and Mr. Gibson, but I think it's because of her background, not her inherent nature. She is able to recognize and admire their good..."

Yes, I agree with you there, Alicia. Cynthia is definitely a great person, even though she is always admitting her own faults. The apples doesn't fall far from the tree in this case, but at least the apple is able to recognize it ;).

I agree also! I'm relieved that Molly has someone on her side after Mrs. Hamley passes away. Molly is such a sweet and kind character, I find myself yelling at my Cruz Tablet (I downloaded the book) and someone to be her friend! I think Mr. Gibson is realizing who he has married now. And, who is Mrs. Osbourne!!!!???

Well, I've seen the film, so I already know, but let's just say it gets interesting!

Ah!!!! I'm missing out so much! I got a big exam coming up so I don't think I can join the group discussion according to this schedule I'm still in chapter 8 and I don't think I 'll go anywhere for next couple of days :(

Amalie, I will have to delay a little more joining in myself so don't worry that you will be left behind - I feel there is still plenty of good discussion left for us. We'll see you after your big exam!

I don't even have the copy, I'll try looking online, I also have to finish North and South as well, what to do?

Robin, I think the plan was to discuss the movie after we finish the book.

Amalie and Robin, do you ever listen to books on audiofile? I downloaded the book from librivox.org (for free) and put it on my mp3 player. I can put it in my pocket and listen while I get other stuff done. I was able to keep up with the chapters we were discussing the last week of my school quarter because I listened during times I couldn't study--while cooking and doing other necessary chores.

I know I read it somewhere, but on Austen group they were going to view the movie at the end of the month if I am not mistaken.

Yes, I'm very caught up in reading North and South for Victorians, so it would be great if this discussion continued a little longer, Amalie. It is really hard to read two books at once and be ready for discussion. Two Gaskell novels can be even more confusing!

Alicia, I've been reading this book first, then listening to it on Librivox. Quite a nice way to review what I had read, since I usually read right before bed and sometimes doze off!

In the general thread for this book, Rachel said, "Also, we will delay watching the film adaptation of the novel for our Fall Movie Discussions until after finishing the book discussion."

Yes, Alicia, I remember Rachel posting that, it was put in my December calendar for viewing, but since I have other books to read for Victorians, two for now, I don't know if I will be able to join in. I have not secured a copy of the book, may go to Borders to get a copy and also North and South.

Yes, Robin, the film discussion for Wives and Daughters was changed until after we finish the book discussion. We just thought that was simpler, and it will lessen the chance of spoilers and such. I hope you do get a chance to read with us, but we do look forward to you chiming in with the film discussion!

Nice comments about Mr. Gibson, Susan. I think he is the typical out of touch dad, loving his daughter but not wanting her to grow up too fast. I do think the story of Osbourne's marriage will be an interesting one, and I think the Molly/Roger/Cynthia tangle will get worse before it gets better!

Will do, either way, Rachel.

That would be great to see the movie too! I now have netflix (late in the game, but that's cool) so I'll make sure I'll put that down. I am really enjoying the book overall. I would have to say that it is pretty Austen-like, so great pick!

I still don't have a copy of W& D,I will try to get one, but am also reading Little Dorrit in Jan/Feb., for Victorians group. So many books so little time.

I got mine in e-book form (its free). My husband has a Kindle and I have Kindle on my phone and a Cruz Tab. But I know what you mean. The bad thing about free e-books is that they are free and means that the TBR pile gets bigger!

It already is for me. the to be read pile. that is.

Shaun - do you subscribe to some of the blogs that update twice a day about free books? They send you emails with the latest free things? That makes the TBR even worse - how can one bypass the offer? It's free!!!!!! ;-)

Shaun, if you have Netflix, you can watch Wives and Daughters right now. It's available for Instant Viewing.

Alicia wrote: "Amalie and Robin, do you ever listen to books on audiofile? I downloaded the book ...

Susan wrote : Yes, I'm very caught up in reading North and South for Victorians, so it would be great if this discussion continued a little longer..."

Thanks Alicia for that suggestion, I had no idea such a facility was out there. I might try it though I'm old school when it comes to reading. I NEED to hold a book in my hands!!! I know, I know it's bit crazy.

And Susan, I saw you there at the Victorians. I felt the same way specially since I had an exam at the same time. Now coming back to the book,

Megan, you are right in the eariler thread about Mrs. Kirkpatrick, she is a 'Mrs Norris' or a 'Fanny Dashwood'. She is manipulative. The way she bends Mr Gobson reminds me so much of Fanny and John Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility and she's got some issues with her self-image and hates her past being a governess, but then again no wonder looking at the pupils ;) and Lady Cumnor is Lady Catherine, totally! the way she cross examine Molly, I wish Molly answered like Lizzy Bennet rather than Anne Elliot. Well, there you go I just brought out all the Austen characters!!!

LOL! Now there is even a Mr Collins!!! :D Mr.Preston. If you haven't met him yet,

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"Mr. Preston, who apologized to his guests several times for the bad cooking of this dish, or the omission of a particular sauce to that; always referring to bachelor's housekeeping, bachelor's this and bachelor's that, till Molly grew quite impatient at the word..."

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I love the development of Roger and Molly's friendship. It seems they have a relationship similar to Emma/Knightley and Fanny/Edmund. I saw in the previous thread someone has mentioned Gaskell's writing is 'melodramatic' which I don't see, however, their is a sense of fairytale touch in this. Molly (with what I've read so far) does not see to have qualities of those groundbreaking heroines. She seems more delicate and dependable and there are male figures surrounding her who she can rely on, a father she looks up to, which I like for a change. Looking at this era realistically we can't say there might have been many Jane Eyres. Now come to think of it, may be that's the magic in Gaskell's heroines, rather than being bit idealistic, she may be depicting women in her time, in general, may be it explains the cozy feeling I get when I read it specially the dialogues between Roger and Molly.
Everyone, I say my ta-ta for this year. I'll see you all in 2011. I wish you all a Happy New Year!

I too like the progression of Molly and Rogers platonicy if you can call it that. He seems to be like an older brother to her, and Mrs. Hamley seemed like a kindly grandmother figure to her. All these characters are richly illustrated by Gaskell, and I loved reading this book. Mr. Preston is a cad through and through and for Cynthia not to be formally engaged to him, all the better. He seemed to find her weakness and gave her money with strings attached.