The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is experimenting on) discussion

Ok... so I got my first really lambasting/negative comment today. As this group is dedicated to sorting out goodreads issues etc... I thought I'd bring it up.

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

So, did I respond appropriately or not? How should I have responded? I was tempted to go for snarky in return, but I can picture that backfiring on me in the long run.

Help me out.

I think you did fine. Personally, I tend to ignore people like that. I've been personally attacked for my views on His Dark Materials, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, and The Stars My Destination. That's why I tend to vote for reviews I disagree with as long as they are well-articulated. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if I don't agree. I just want their views to be well-supported and thoughtful. Personally attacking a reviewer for having an opinion that differs from your own is never appropriate.

I've noticed that it's often YA books that invoke these kinds of negative responses. Maybe debate classes should be required in schools.

Don't fret, Philip. I think you did quite well. You stuck to the facts, stuck by your guns, but didn't go for the throat. It's obvious your detractor is a young person, and while I don't condone name-calling at any age, perhaps it's better to encourage passion in the young rather than to try to stomp on it.

You did great, Philip.
I agree with Angel.

I don't mind negative reviews or comments, people have differing points of view. What I absolutely HATE though is when I reply or post a comment that disagrees with a review and the reviewer's clique all gang up on me. That I find childish and like a child, upsetting, but then that's what its designed to be.

I don't like the gang-ups/pile-ups either.
I know folks are trying to be supportive of the reviewer, but how many supportive comments (or antagonistic attacks) does the reviewer need? usually one or two will suffice--

@ Sandi: thanks. Yeah, maybe that's why I was more upset and unsure about this comment than other negative comments in the past. This one attacked me personally.

@ Angel and Jessica: Thanks and thanks. I needed some positive affirmation with this one.

@ Petra: I know what you mean. Hopefully nobody on here does that. I'm going to ask that nobody else comments on the review, just to ensure that doesn't happen... (not that this group is my clique... although it is a fun thought... you know... having a goodreads clique...) As it is, Sandi's the only one who commented on it, and it was not a personal attack - like the comment posted about me.



So, this being my first experience with negative comments, I'd be interestd in seeing how you all handled them. Ways that worked, ways that failed... Should we ever hit back, or should we always maintain a level head when responding?

wow... I must have been typing that comment for a long time.

@ Jessica: Agreed.

I try to maintain a level head. But, as you can see from this comment thread, some folks would like to see me explode for once:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

When you're an author as well as a reader, maybe you have to be more careful. Maybe it's just my perception. When I have negative comments or reviews, my first rule is: take those fingers off the keyboard.

The emotional reaction of an instant often causes regret. I process. Cool down. Process some more. Answer when the brain has slowed to objective again.

Angel I wish I had your wisdom. And your timing.

I wrote a very negative comment recently. I read a very good review but I didn't agree with it at all - it was about book snobbery and elitism and I am really against snobbery in all forms and can't see how people can possibly feel that their reading material is so superior to another person's that it is wrong, really wrong to even sell books that aren't 'good' literature. I didn't make any personal remarks but got jumped on and trampled so I wrote another (overlong but well-argued, I thought) comment and ...

...and because I get too intense and very upset quite easily when I am ganged up on, I decided to leave it a week or three until I go back to that review.

Probably a very good idea, Petra. Not sure why humans still have this ancient pack mentality. (Look, she's alone, we are many, let's surround and rip to shreds) It feels like the locker room at school sometimes, even when we're decades past those years.

yeah... I've learned from intense (and volatile) email exchanges with friends over the years, that the best thing to do is to first step back. calm down and cool down. and then you can approach the comment--whatever it might be--without the feelings of personal injury and attack.

That sucks Petra X. I hear you with the getting upset part. I get upset and passionate even if it's a gang of two. (As Flight of the Conchords notes, "the smallest gang possible.") Nice job on the waiting a week or three... that's gotta be tough when you have stuff you want to say.

On a separate note, someone else has now come to my aid in the review... I don't think she's a member of this group, and I haven't posted this anywhere else. (I've also never met her, so she's not a part of my "clique." ... yet...) *Edit* I just realized who she is... I clicked "like" to her review of the book earlier today while I was down in the dumps processing the whole negative comment thing... Does that count as knowing her ahead of time, or her being part of my click?* *End Edit*


I also think that people are really really passionate about what they read, so when someone gives a negative review to a book they loved there's a sense of personal attack there as well. It's like the books we read and love become a part of us.

Once again I may be rambling.

Not rambling - very well said. Reading takes some effort (unlike watching the idiot box) and necessarily involves more of an emotional investment. People who love to read carry their books under their skins.

The books we love become a part of us, but the books we despise do as well. The passion, the fire, is there at both poles.

I'll take The Da Vinci Code as an example. This is one of the few (perhaps two or three) works of fiction, ever, which I have found myself unable to finish. I despise it so much, adrenaline prickles actually climb the back of my skull when people gush about it. So, yes, we have passions both sublime and dark regarding books and with such soaring/plunging passions, the discussions are bound to get heated sometimes.

I find your comment elitist, Caris.

What exactly are you saying Caris?

As far as seeking sympathy is concerned, that's your interpretation and of course is only to bolster up your case. I was no more seeking sympathy than I am a troll. So throw me out of your group for writing negative comments which you and your 'group of users', clique, or should I say claque, don't agree with, shop in bookshops which only cater to people who appreciate 'good' novels' and probably 'good' comments written by 'good' people. Better that than throwing personal insults at me, 'motherfucking enforcer'.

This is me making a good comment.

I don't see the point of your comment, Caris.
and why are you calling Petra a troll?
If she reads a review and makes a comment, she's a troll?

it seems to me the 'battle' had already taken place on the comment thread of Elizabeth's review, why also bring it in here?

ACKKKK! Goodreads worlds colliding! My new clique of Me and Petra X is under assult from my old clique of me and 36% of Jessica 26% of Esteban 12% of Caris 33% of Elizabeth and 72% of various others. (Granted, I'm not THAT tight with my old clique... I'm not even sure I'm friends with them all... but I'm friends with some, following some, and admire the lot of them...) Oh, and sorry the numbers don't add up... I'm not that good at the maths.


I didn't mean for this to become the place to drop our negative comments either, rather to just reflect on them.

*WHEW* I read that whole review and all those comments. If there's one problem with goodreads, it's that it causes me to read all this dialogue when I should probably be finishing the next section of the rather difficult The First Tycoon which our book club is slogging through. (Not my pick - and no offense to those who like it... just keeping it positive.)

At any rate, I loved Elizabeth's review but still see the point Petra X was making (albeit maybe a little to brazenly for my tastes.) Although, I then see the points others made in the wake of Petra X's comment... damn curse of the middle child.

Maybe I'll go over to the thread and throw in some of my thoughts. (Not trying to stoke the fire. Seems hot enough.)

I guess I've never understood what a troll -- in the online world -- was.

I like YOU, Petra X. I like YOU "Motherfucking Enforcer". I like YOU, Esteban-love me some suicidal Santa. I like YOU Jessica-especially since I thought your avi was a boiled egg at first glance. Mmmmm. Eggs. I like YOU, Philip & your beautiful child.

Life's too short to fight/argue/whateverthefuck you want to call it on the internet. So can't we all just motherfucking get along? I myself would rather save my irate words for that bitch down the street who bought all the good books at the UBS.

*Lethal ducks*

ETA: I hate that bitch. She had a whole buggy full of books she planned on reselling at ebay. Bitch.

because I'd never looked it up before, I did now. Urban Dictionary states:

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.


I don't see that that was what Petra was doing.
True, she could have toned down her rhetoric.
But, she was in fact on topic, etc etc

Caris wrote: "Oh, yeah. I wasn't calling her like an under-the-bridge-straight-outta-Willow troll. Just a discourteous user of this website. I apologize for the confusion. Not so long ago, I wouldn't have unders..."

of course I knew that. But I never understood a troll to be a namecaller. I thought it was someone who popped into a thread, left a snarky comment and left.

LethalLovely~Punch the Bitch You Hate Today! wrote: "I like YOU, Petra X. I like YOU "Motherfucking Enforcer". I like YOU, Esteban-love me some suicidal Santa. I like YOU Jessica-especially since I thought your avi was a boiled egg at first glance. M..."

this --to me --is not about liking or hating. it's about having a discussion and clearing up some stuff, some of which is/has been hurtful.

Jessica wrote: "LethalLovely~Punch the Bitch You Hate Today! wrote: "I like YOU, Petra X. I like YOU "Motherfucking Enforcer". I like YOU, Esteban-love me some suicidal Santa. I like YOU Jessica-especially since I..."

I'm not saying it is or isn't, oh Jessica of the boiled eggs avi. I'm saying this is me trying to lighten the mood a little, by injecting humor & warm fuzzies into the conversation. Now, if people want to keep on keeping on, so be it. I can rest easy knowing I did my best to fill the thread with a few lollipops, rainbows & sunshiney-goodness.

okay Caris, I just think Elizabeth defended herself well enough on her own review-thread, and Petra made clear in this discussion she felt very passionate, perhaps overly so, and was taking time to cool down...

being called an elitist to me is on the level of being called a liberal or a communist...not so bad, after all.

all right, LL~PB. and I do like boiled eggs.

well I'll look at the thread again, and I don't mean to drive this into the ground, but it does seem to me that a number of people responded to her on the thread in a way that could feel like a group.

and then there's this: Troll gets dealt with, Petra. Sometimes by groups of users.

I like everybody & would NEVER attack anyone on GR. I even love most of you. Why? Because like I said, I'd rather save my "fuck you's!" for people I can actually punch. GR is turning me into a pacifist, since it's so hard to knock somebodies face in through the PC screen.

"Hello world, here's a song that we're singin'
Come on, get happy
A whole lotta lovin' is what we'll be bringin'
We'll make you happy"

☺☺☺☺☺

okay, but don't you mean inappropriately expressed?

surely she can have a decidedly different opinion?

*Whew* It is LATE in Indiana.

I heart you too LL.

I agree: probably inappropriately expressed... differing opinions = greatness.

If it's any consolation to all the GRers out there, I feel a lot better about the negative comment I recieved, so thanks.

I do mean inappropriately expressed. You don't go into civilized conversation with your claws out. She is entitled to whatever opinion she may have. She was dealt with reasonably on that thread by a group of reasonable people. There were others who shared her view, but managed to stay above name-calling.

I agree. And I wish it had stayed there and at that
and had not been brought in here. But since it has, and you've clarified things, that's to the good I think...

Jessica wrote: "I do mean inappropriately expressed. You don't go into civilized conversation with your claws out. She is entitled to whatever opinion she may have. She was dealt with reasonably on that thread by ..."

Ditto! I scared now. Now I'm afraid that every time I make a comment on the Coolest Group, someone is going to post a link to the review I wrote....the one with 200+ posts about "going for anal sex vs keeping your pinky-puppet out of the godsdamn doggy door". I scared. Hold me.

I know I'm just a lowly newbie, but I don't see what the point was of bringing up a past discussion. But that's just me.

I know this is a public group, but I think we felt safe here, able to write comments and views here without being attacked. If I were a moderator, I'd want to maintain that.

just saying... and in light of LL~PB's above comment... I'm not trying to prolong anything here.

I was wondering if I could go back to the general issue of negative comments. I usually choose to ignore the negative comments I receive if they seem more like ad hominem attacks than like genuine expressions of disagreement. Occasionally I wonder whether it would be better to respond -- provided I could do so in a classy way rather than having the conversation degenerate into an insult contest.

I think that disagreeing with the reviewer's review is okay; personally attacking the reviewer is not. Speaking from the receiving end, it's a bit jarring to be insulted by a total stranger simply because you didn't like the same book they did.

On a side note, one of my pet peeves is being accused of not understanding the book in some way simply because I wrote a negative review. Couldn't it be that I understood the book just as well as anyone else, and simply failed to be impressed?

I agree that typed comments, in the absence of non-verbal cues, are easy to misinterpret. I think that that places some responsibility on the commenter to make sure that their comment is worded carefully. But sure, there's plenty of room for miscommunication. When that happens, I generally think the burden is on the commenter to explain their intent before writing off the reviewer as overly sensitive. My feeling is that commenters can just as easily ignore a review with which they disagree; by choosing to comment, they are putting themselves in the reviewer's space and are guests and should behave as such. That's me, though, and I'm sure others would disagree.

Jessica wrote: "of course I knew that. But I never understood a troll to be a namecaller. I thought it was someone who popped into a thread, left a snarky comment and left."

Jessica! How could you!?!?!?!? You said we were special (sniff, sniff)!!

If that's how you feel, then:

&^%"$£)!&^$)*&&*Y(*£&%$&(£+)£%$&^(*£%$*)^&*(&^65(*&(%

oh and by the way:

()*&*(*£%£^&)^)_*"!£$_^_^Y_^*(£$"^_^*_^*^"%%%"£

(pants, sweats heavily).

And just to be absolutely clear, I always wanna see you again!

Khaya wrote: "I was wondering if I could go back to the general issue of negative comments. I usually choose to ignore the negative comments I receive if they seem more like ad hominem attacks than like genuine..."

I absolutely agree. I don't want to feel attacked just because I was unimpressed by a book/author. I am honestly afraid that any book review with less than 3 stars will get the hounds released against me. I had an author actually write a book for me because I didn't like the one he sent to me to review. He was incredibly nice and sweet...but the author's note says he wrote it for me and he hopes this book makes up for the last one...is that creepy or nice?

And I also agree with Lethal (waves!) that I'm afraid anything I post will now be up for dissection.

Laurie, warte jetzt auf eine Zergliedurung!

:D

:)

Hallo GN...wie geht's?
Ist es noch spaet fur dich in Kairo? Es ist 22 uhr 20 hier.

Morgen frueh. 8.25am hier. Recht spaet fuer dich, aber :D. Alles in Ordnung?

Ach, gute Morgen :)

Alles in Ordnung?
ja, danke. Meine Kinder shlafen und ich trinke ein Bier. Das ist gut, ja? :)

Gute morgen alle.

I'm just getting up from the best shlafen of my life. ... well, when your kids don't wake you up in the middle of the night (like the night before last), they're all good.

Poor, Philip. You really opened the proverbial can here, didn't you?

I just don't like it when someone commented and the attack was directly on the reviewer and not on the book anymore.

I call people who post hate/insult comments on my thread, trolls. Some of them I have blocked today.

There's just two review wherein I have those trolls:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
***this one was a rant review for Crescendo by Becca Fitzpatrick (I rated it 1 star***

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
***this one was another rant review of a Popular book here in my country and the author was a Filipino (rated it 1 star)***

@Joyzi: Yeah, I agree... attacking the reviewer is not the way to go. How should we respond is the next question.

I didn't really get much of your second link... the Filipino or Tugolug (I'm ignorant about both... except for like... 3 phrases...) threw me. Although, I'm going to ignore your coded advice and keep my ice pick in my kitchen.


So, do you all think certain reviews invite negative comments? (or is it acceptable to put negative comments on said reviews.)