The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is experimenting on) discussion

I just want to rant about getting a rejection today for a short story I submitted. Not really unexpected I guess but it still pisses me off.

A writer who has no rejection letters is an unpublished writer, Michael. Unless this was submitted to a personal friend, don't take it to heart. It's part of the joy of being a writer.

I've got a nice little collection of those!

I once got one with a personal (if nonsensical) note from Marion Zimmer Bradley.

I got one from Michelle Cliff asking if I didn't see, upon contemplation, that my poem wasn't feminist?

Ah, try getting an assessment that totally 'monsters' your manuscript - although at the time I made the disillusioned sin of rewriting my work to suit the potential publisher I was courting, who offered me the assessment...if that makes sense.

My partner told me not to change a word and send it to them, but I rewrote the whole thing to suit the advice given in an encouraging rejection letter they sent me after they only reading the first chapter. They liked my style but not my story and offered a few plot change suggestions.

So for two months I rewrote my book to the point that it didn't quite make sense. I paid $500 for an assessment thinking that maybe because I worked-in their ideas, they may suggest a few more simple changes and publish it.

Quite rightly, they critiqued to the 'enth degree'. The book was unrecognisable, so I ditched that version and went back to the version before. The version that I made minor changes to and published myself.

I've been submitting stories for a number of years now, both long and short, erotic and mainstream. I keep all my rejection letters, not sure why, but I don't think you ever get past the point of rejections unless you reach that strange twilight world of fiction superstardom where no one cares what you write, as long as your name is on it. (Or if you're some idiot TV reality show celebrity - good gods, someone please explain that phenomenon to me.)

Anyway, my point is that rejections, no matter how many you receive, still sting. You did your research, you just knew this was the right publisher for your work, you polished your ms to within an inch of its life (or, like Kevin, tried desperately to fit it into someone else's mold.) But rejections are not failures - they're part of the process.

Getting published isn't like competitive sports where you either win or lose. It's more like archeology. You keep trying until you hit something.

Getting published isn't like competitive sports where you either win or lose. It's more like archeology. You keep trying until you hit something.

I think this is true. It's about getting lucky with an editor, hitting one on the right day, one who shares your sensibility...like my friend whose first book, a collection of linked stories set in Oklahoma, landed on an editor's desk at Viking (not agented, mind you). He was from Texas, the same part of the country, and he loved her work...She's had three books with Viking now. They only recently dropped her (not selling enough) so she's with a University Press now.

Angel wrote: "Getting published isn't like competitive sports where you either win or lose. It's more like archeology. You keep trying until you hit something."

Thanks for this! I hope you don't mind (if you do, let me know), but I'm going to copy that quote and keep it with other good quotes I like. It's difficult for me to shake that all-or-nothing mentality but the reality is it's just a story and there'll be others. It's not me. Oh, who am I kidding? it's more than a story and it *is* me LOL! I appreciate the responses here. They helped me keep my thoughts in perspective.

Don't mind at all. If you can't get support from other writers, who understand how it feels, well, the rest is obvious. :)

I've never tried to get anything published, but I've kept every single rejection letter I've ever received, since the time in primary school when the teacher chose someone else to be the class treasurer. I don't think I've ever re-read them, though.

My man keeps all of his rejection slips. I think he has them separated into tiers even, with the Missouri Review and Glimmer Train getting the top tier and so on. He submits in the same way, starting with his top tier and then, after rejection, tweaking or not and sending them back out to tier two.

I've been submitting fiction for two years now with not a single acceptance. I get about 75% personal rejections, even from promarkets. But a few weeks ago I got one that was just like "Great story, but we don't have room!" It made me want to shake someone and be like, "Give me a chance!"

Oh, I got three rejections on Christmas eve and one on my birthday on 12/26 this year, too. Merry Bdaymas!

Sorry. But, happy birthday!

Ha, thanks! ^_^

Don't. Give. Up.

Jen wrote: "My man keeps all of his rejection slips. I think he has them separated into tiers even, with the Missouri Review and Glimmer Train getting the top tier and so on. He submits in the same way, star..."

Is Glimmer Train legit? I sent them a short story and paid $15 to enter their themed contest. After going through the whole online submission process, I get a screen that thanks me for entering and tells me that they don't provide any feedback on submissions because they get too many. I thought that was pretty lousy and it made me wonder about the whole "contest" aspect of the publication.

Glimmertrain is legit.
But unfortunately, all too many jounals make their money from contests. This is not to say that the contest isn't judged fairly, but the fees, given the odds of winning, don't make it worthwhile in my view.
I generally steer clear of contests, unless it's one that for whatever reason I think my story/poem has an exceptionally good chance of winning.
The one time I won a prize for a story was a time I had not even entered a contest. I was given 'best fiction award' for stories published in the journal that year. As it had been judged by Ben Marcus, I was really pleased. And I got a bit of money as well. But I hadn't even known there was a contest.

It doesn't bother me if they make money from contests so much if that's what's keeping them in business, but in the future I think I'd rather subscribe to the journal for a year rather than enter a contest for a chance at publication.

Maybe I'm too untrustworthy and cynical but I wonder if contest entrants aren't possibly judged on how many contests they've entered rather than on the quality of their work? More entries at publication = more money spent at publication = better chance at winning publication's contest? My biggest gripe with Glimmer Train though was in not getting any feedback and not being told I'd get no feedback until *after* I entered. I really wanted the feedback LOL!

Unfortunately, there aren't too many venues you can submit to these days that will provide feedback. Some idiot on some long ago talkshow told the public that everyone has a story in them and everyone should try to write it.

The dutiful public has been swamping every journal, publisher, agent, and well-meaning friend ever since.

That's a little disheartening :( I know a lot of people tout writer's groups as a good source for getting feedback, but I haven't joined one because (this is going to sound really snobby) I don't know that I can necessarily trust the other people in the group. Let's go find that talkshow idiot and get him to take it back!

There is something to be said for writer's groups. But you have to find one that works with the type and style of fiction you write. My worst experience in a writer's group was with someone who took issue with me on religious grounds. Oh, that got ugly.

Much better than a group is to find one or two critique partners - once again not an easy task - whom you trust and respect.

Brian wrote: "I submitted three short stories when I was in college, and they all got rejected. Years later, I found them among my stuff, and I admit they needed some work..."

That's a good point. Leave space (about three months) between writing and submitting. Write, leave in a drawer, revisit and rewrite, (get opinions you trust) and submit.

I wish I had a time machine so I could re-submit my manuscript at a more developed stage to some of the publishers I was trying to court at the beginning of the process.

Angel wrote: "There is something to be said for writer's groups. But you have to find one that works with the type and style of fiction you write.

Much better than a group is to find one or two critique partners - once again not an easy task - whom you trust and respect.

I agree. Although I got support from a writers group for my first chapter, one member who borrowed the full manuscript didn't get into it.

A well read friend and a paid assessor who kept reading the various drafts, got my story.

In fact (don't laugh) a psychic who I saw on and off, demanded to know 'what happened to that woman?' She was referring to my assessor because I had seeked a second opinion from another assessor. She told me that 'that woman understands my story.'

My psychic was right. The 'second opinion' really wasn't into my novel. In fact they had very little that was nice to say about it.