The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

It is with great pleasure that the "Readers Review" introduces a new feature for the group-- The Dickens Project: 'The Pickwick Papers' through 'The Mystery of Edwin Drood'. We are going to start a serial reading of the novels of Charles Dickens. The novels will be read in the order that they were originally written and published by Dickens. This project will run concurrent with normally selected group reads and discussions, and group members are invited to join in the side-reading and discussion of their favorite Dickens novels, or to even read them all.

I anticipate that we will allot a generous amount of time for reading and discussing each of the novels, as many of you participate in other group reads and discussions here and in other groups. I also anticipate keeping this relatively informal, with folks coming and going and chiming in as their interest is piqued, etc. I also hope that some of you who have a favorite Dickens novel, or two, may feel compelled to volunteer to help moderate and manage the discussions, etc.

Here is the list of the novels written by Charles Dickens and the year of publication (i.e., most of his novels were serialized in literary magazines).

The Posthumous Papers of the Pickwick Club (1837)
The Adventures of Oliver Twist (1839)
The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby (1839)
The Old Curiosity Shop (1841)
Barnaby Rudge (1841)
The Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit (1844)
Dombey and Son (1848)
David Copperfield (1850)
Bleak House (1853)
Hard Times: For These Times (1854)
Little Dorrit (1857)
A Tale of Two Cities (1859)
Great Expectations (1861)
Our Mutual Friend (1865)
The Mystery of Edwin Drood (unfinished upon his death in 1870)

During the Christmas season we could read one or more of Dickens's Christmas stories--

The Christmas books:
A Christmas Carol (1843)
The Chimes (1844)
The Cricket on the Hearth (1845)
The Battle of Life (1846)
The Haunted Man and the Ghost’s Bargain (1848)

Finally, one question I have for all of you is the following--

When would you like to kick "The Dickens Project" off? Is April 1st too soon? What about May 1st? Your thoughts would be most appreciated. Cheers!

I vote may 1st. Congrats for setting this up so rapidly. Good work and thanks

Thanks, Christopher!

I was actually going to suggest that we each take turns moderating, to lighten your load. LOL, I volunteer for the eventual A Tale of Two Cities read, since I seem to be the only one here who enjoyed that (loved it, actually).

I agree that May 1st sounds good.

Ahh, you all make my heart sing! I'm taking notes too; so, do expect a gentle reminder from me as your book approacheth! ;-)

I'll volunteer to moderate the following--

"The Posthumous Papers of the Pickwick Club",
"The Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit", and
"Our Mutual Friend"

Of course, I will happily moderate any that aren't picked up by other members as well.

Finally, it sounds like we're heading toward a May Day kickoff for The Dickens Project.

May 1st sounds good to me. And I definitely like the "generous amount of time for reading and discussing." Given that most of Dickens was issued in monthly installments over several years, while I don't suggest being quite that leisurely, I think something on the order of 50 pages a week would work well for me. Or, perhaps, figuring out what the initial installments were, and reading one monthly installment per week. That way we would be getting a flavor of how the original readers read the novels, but wouldn't take over a year per book.

For the Pickwick Papers, for example, Wikipedia gives this as the original monthly publication schedule, which we could easily handle on a weekly schedule:
* I – March 1836 (chapters 1–2);
* II – April 1836 (chapters 3–5);
* III – May 1836 (chapters 6–8);
* IV – June 1836 (chapters 9-11);
* V – July 1836 (chapters 12–14);
* VI – August 1836 (chapters 15–17);
* VII – September 1836 (chapters 18–20);
* VIII – October 1836 (chapters 21–23);
* IX – November 1836 (chapters 24–26);
* X – December 1836 (chapters 27–28);
* XI – January 1837 (chapters 29–31);
* XII – February 1837 (chapters 32–33);
* XIII – March 1837 (chapters 34–36);
* XIV – April 1837 (chapters 37–39);
* XV – June 1837 (chapters 40–42);
* XVI – July 1837 (chapters 43–45);
* XVII – August 1837 (chapters 46–48);
* XVIII – September 1837 (chapters 49–51);
* XIX-XX – October 1837 (chapters 52–57);


Mousehold Words is a website which, run by a guy who is passionate about reading serially, will send out on your schedule the installments of books on your schedule. As you can see, he has done a number of the Dickens works already done, and others in preparation.

It might be kind of fun to have all of us on an agreed date subscribe to a book on the same schedule so we all get the installments at the same time, as the original subscribers would have as they came out in print. (It doesn't look as though he has an option to choose your starting date, so we would have to sign up on the same day to be fully in sync.) Just a thought if people thought that would be a fun way to go about it!

I love Bleak House, but as I really flit in and out around here, I can't promise anything. Ask me in a year, when we get to it...

Bill wrote: "I'll volunteer for moderating David Copperfield.

This is my favorite Dickens novel in the whole wide world and of all time.

Bill, David Copperfield is my favourite as well.

Chris....I'm very excited about this concept!!

I would be happy to moderate Great Expectations and/or Dombey and Son and/or Hard Times.

May 1 suits me as well.

Sasha wrote: "I would be happy to moderate Great Expectations and/or Dombey and Son and/or Hard Times.

May 1 suits me as well."

Terrific! Thank you, Sasha. We'll let you decide as we move further into the 'Project'!

I think we now have well over one-third of the Dickens novels doled out for moderation now!

Ooh a Dickethon!

I'll moderate Hard Times and/or Little Dorritt. if you like, Christopher.

MadgeUK wrote: "Ooh a Dickethon!

I'll moderate Hard Times and/or Little Dorritt. if you like, Christopher."

Excellent, Madge! This has just been fabulous seeing the enthusiasm for our new project! Even if everyone doesn't participate in reading every Dickens novel, I'll bet that we end up with a pretty dedicated group of folks who will follow this through from start to finish. Thank you for volunteering for "Hard Times" and/or "Little Dorrit" too, Madge. LD is one of my personal favorites; such a beautiful (and suspenseful) novel.

Yes I like LD and I 'did' Hard Times at uni, all those years ago, when looking at the effects of Utilitarianism on Victorian society.

List of Titles & Volunteer Moderators--

Okay, here is the list of Dickens novels for which we have volunteer moderators scheduled--

The Pickwick Papers Chris
Oliver Twist Loretta
Nicholas Nickleby Krislyn
Martin Chuzzlewit Chris
Dombey and Son Sasha
David Copperfield Bill
Bleak House potentially, S. Rosemary
Hard Times Madge
Little Dorrit Madge
A Tale of Two Cities Loretta
Great Expectations Sasha
Our Mutual Friend Chris

Currently, eleven of the fifteen novels now have volunteer moderators. Awesome, folks!

I will update the list as more of the novels are selected.

I can do Oliver Twist too, if you all don't mind a first-time reader acting as moderator.

Loretta wrote: "I can do Oliver Twist too, if you all don't mind a first-time reader acting as moderator."

Not at all, Loretta! Trust me, it is really quite easy and quite fun; especially with this group of readers! I'll 'pencil' you in for "Oliver Twist", and thank you! Cheers!

Also, I really like that schedule that Everyman posted for "The Posthumous Papers of the Pickwick Club", at 50, or so, pages per week it will allow folks to participate in the Dickens Project and other important reading that is occurring. As I recall, most of the serialization for most of Dickens novels are available for us to draw upon too, or at least consult for applicability. Even if it takes two years, or more, to make our way through this collection I am sure it will be well worth it.

Christopher wrote: "[a slower pace] will allow folks to participate in the Dickens Project and other important reading that is occurring."

I think that's critical. Already I have basically had to drop out of one group I like because the reading load would take up so much of my available time that I couldn't keep up with the other books and discussions I want to. I know some fast readers, or some readers without a heavy load of other obligations, can handle heavy reading loads, but not all of us can and still give the books the time for thought and introspection that they deserve (particularly if we are trying to develop our own thoughts and analyses of them and not rely mostly on critical analysis).

I completely agree with you, Everyman! If we really want the Dickens Project to succeed, I think it has to be structured like this. Frankly, I'll hazard a guess that if we approach it like this--at a slower, more relaxed pace--it will actually enhance our overall experience too.

Nice, nice, nice. In a way, I find it beneficial to be "pushed" along by a group like this. I have soooo many unread books on my shelf, that I often don't know what to read next, and often leave some books unfinished as well.

I'd just like to mention that Great Expectations is not only one of my favorite Dickens, but one of my faves in general - it has such an element of strangeness to it.

I'm also really looking forward to 'The Mystery of Edwin Drood', which I have not read, but on which my curiosity has been greatly piqued by the recent Dan Simmons novel, "Drood". The Simmons novel seems quite insightful into the life of Dickens, though Simmons seems not too fond of our famous writer.

It would actually also be nice if we could at some stage officially read one of the books by Wilkie Collins, a friend and contemporary of Dickens.

Speaking of Dickens, the workhouse which is though to have inspired Oliver Twist has been saved from demolition.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/110...

Traveller wrote: "Nice, nice, nice. In a way, I find it beneficial to be "pushed" along by a group like this. I have soooo many unread books on my shelf, that I often don't know what to read next, and often leave s..."

That's exactly why I joined these groups, Traveller!

Everyman wrote: "Speaking of Dickens, the workhouse which is though to have inspired Oliver Twist has been saved from demolition.

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/110..."

Thanks fo rthe link, Everyman.

Yes, well spotted Everyman. It would probably cost more to demolish it than to save it in these harsh economic times, and they can charge for admission if they make it safe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-...

Thanks for the link Madge. I was wondering why the other articles hadn't given its name (making it hard to search for better pictures).

I found this one from flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rollthed...

Traveller wrote-- "I'm also really looking forward to 'The Mystery of Edwin Drood', which I have not read, but on which my curiosity has been greatly piqued by the recent Dan Simmons novel, "Drood". The Simmons novel seems quite insightful into the life of Dickens, though Simmons seems not too fond of our famous writer.

It would actually also be nice if we could at some stage officially read one of the books by Wilkie Collins, a friend and contemporary of Dickens.
..."

Traveller, I just wanted to briefly comment on your post (No. 20) above that I really enjoyed the Simmons novel, Drood. I thought it was very well written, and a fascinating take on the relationship between Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens. I think my reading of Drood was really benefited by my having read much of both of their works too.

Finally, I am quite sure that at some point we will read one or more of Collins's novels. Obviously, most people have heard of and read The Woman in White and The Moonstone, but he really was quite a prolific writer and there are several that I've not yet read (e.g., Armadale, No Name, etc.). Cheers!

Loretta wrote: "Thanks for the link Madge. I was wondering why the other articles hadn't given its name (making it hard to search for better pictures).

I found this one from flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos..."

That photo captures it well Loretta. We have quite a few of these old Dickensian buildings in London and they still serve their various purposes well, although they are quite gloomy inside and need a lot of lighting. This one is quite near to Oxford Street, in the West End of London.

Yes, Madge, I used some creative Googling to figure out where it was (I spent 4 months in London studying when I was in college, and spent a fair amount of time near Covent Gardens, which is fairly close by... though the building doesn't seem to call that much attention to itself, so I doubt I would have remarked on it even if I had ever passed it by).

Christopher wrote: " Finally, I am quite sure that at some point we will read one or more of Collins's novels. Obviously, most people have heard of and read The Woman in White"

Actually, I've had Woman in White on my shelf for some time now, but have not read it yet.
Any Wilkie Collins would be an interesting read though, I'm sure.

Thanks for the comment about Drood. :)

Traveller wrote: "Christopher wrote: " Finally, I am quite sure that at some point we will read one or more of Collins's novels. Obviously, most people have heard of and read The Woman in White"

Actually, I've ..."

Oh, you simply must read TWIW! It is a terrific mystery, very suspenseful and a dazzling psycho-drama. It is just loads of fun to read!

Christopher wrote: "Oh, you simply must read TWIW! It is a terrific mystery, very suspenseful and a dazzling psycho-drama. It is just loads of fun to read! "
..."

True. Although I'm not sure how high a quality of discussion it would engender.

Everyman wrote-- "Although I'm not sure how high a quality of discussion it would engender."

I agree completely. I think Collins didn't write it to be great literature. I think it is just as he intended--a terrific and rather clever pot-boiler of a novel.

Oh this sounds like so much fun. I have forever wanted to go on a Dickens binge, but it can be a bit daunting alone. I've read David Copperfield twice on my own and I adore it. Without the group, I might never read the others, but continue to reread my favorite story of all time.

@ Jeanne--

Well, terrific! I do encourage you to join in the discussions on any and all of the Dickens novels that we will be experiencing together. I guarantee you that it will be a wonderful ride; and while some of his novels are better than others, they are ever so worthwhile to read! Cheers!

Thanks, Christopher! This is exciting!

Christopher wrote: I think Collins didn't write it to be great literature. I think it is just as he ..."

It is considered to be the first real mystery novel and an early example of detective fiction so is worth reading for that reason, perhaps to compare it with later ones.

I'm with Christopher, The Woman in White is a terrific read. I couldn't put it down and you can't really say that about many Victorian novels, IMO, however great their literary merit may be.

And it was pretty remarkable for a first effort in a new genre.

I don't remember who posted the information about the book store in Kent, WA, that sells books for $1.00 per lb. I went there today and bought four books for $7.01 These are used books, yet some are in excellent condition.

One book alone weighed more than four pounds. It's Peter Ackroyd's biography of Dickens. It's hefty! The others? Lords of the North by Agnes C. Laut (P.F.Collier and Son, 1900); The Sketch Book by Washington Irving (reprinted) and a little writing book, Writing From the Inside Out by Charlotte Edwards. All but the writing book are cloth bound.

Ackroyd's book sure is hefty! He knows all there is to know about Dickens and he has stuck it all in the book. I am going to read it in sync with each novel with the group, which will make it more digestible. I hope.

That's my plan too, Sasha, but it looks like we have seven chapters of childhood and youth to read before we encounter a chapter about publishing the Pickwick Papers. I like this biography, what I've read so far.
It's packed with information and still reads well.

Chris,

Please remember to sign me up for Nicholas Nickleby. Fun!

Krislyn

K. wrote: "Chris,

Please remember to sign me up for Nicholas Nickleby. Fun!

Krislyn"

I'm doing it right now; and a big 'Thank You! from all of us, Krislyn! Cheers!

Sigh. I wish I were able to sign up for this project, but with my fibromyalgia there's no way I could read all of the Dickens books chosen. I might pick up a couple to read for kicks and giggles, but not as a member of the project. Thanks so much to everyone who worked so hard to set this up!

Thanks,
Ellen

Ellen wrote: "Sigh. I wish I were able to sign up for this project, but with my fibromyalgia there's no way I could read all of the Dickens books chosen. "

Don't forget, it's going to stretch out over several years. And of course you could skip any ones you wanted to and just do the ones you want to.

Christopher wrote: "Everyman wrote-- "Although I'm not sure how high a quality of discussion it would engender."

I agree completely. I think Collins didn't write it to be great literature. I think it is just as he ..."

I agree with Christopher. Any reader of Wilkie's earlier novels, with the exception of The Dead Secret, would conclude he was incapable of great literature. If read in chronological order, TWIW takes the reader by surprise. It's like he's given up all pretence of producing what he deems to be a 'serious' novel and has decided to try his hand at a piece of popular pulp in serial form to rival anything his mentor Dickens could produce. It stands out as a lucky flook in his canon, especially as he returns to form for his follow-up and didn't recapture the spirit until producing The Moonstone, which likewise stands out like a second lucky flook. Together both books makes the rest of his output look like work churned out by a run-of-the-mill hack writer.

I would have to disagree Malcolm. I really don't feel Collins was a hack writer. He was writing about things he believed in and was trying to change his world by his writing. Also, he was groundbreaking in many ways (i.e. the different voices in Woman in White, the ship wreck in Armadale (now cliche but here done for the first time), the detective in Moonstone, the Women's issues raised in No Name). He was very instrumental in the creating the sensational novels, and prolific for theater as well.

You're entitled to express your differing opinion but nothing you can say is going to change my opinion of Wilkie Collins.

Just because his brand of pulp after TWIW became popular doesn't mean it was great literature.

Like most magazine/novelists of his day he was a pen-pusher of popular pulp. Ok, the causes of women's rights he championed were commendable and successful to some degree with TWIW and No Name. But The Law And The Lady was a tad farcical. After TWIW he seemed to have caught some sort of social condition bug from his mentor Dickens. The contrivances and ironies of his fictions are farcical - Lydia Gwilt confessing all in letters (just like the baddie in Basil). As soon as I would recieve the incriminating letter I'd be off down the nearest cop shop.

What makes the yatch wreak in Armadale any more better than the shipwreak in Gaskell's The Moorland Cottage?

The likes of Maria Edgeworth, Elizabeth Gaskell, and Mary Braddon wrote far better social condition novels than Collins and with a far better controlled and practiced hand.

With the exception of TWIW, The Moonstone and The Dead Secret, his novels compared to Edgeworth, Gaskell, Braddon, Ellen Wood, Trollope and Disreali.

With the exception of TWIW,
The Moonstone and The Dead Secret, his novels compared to the work of the likes of Edgeworth, Gaskell, Braddon, Ellen Wood,
Trollope and Disreali seems rather below par.

I'm genuinely surprised Collins never had a hand in writing Sweeny Todd.

Thanks for that reminder, Malcolm. I guess I didn't notice that! I've read some of the books on the list, although not recently, and shall participate when I'm able to do so. Thanks so much once again!!

Everyman wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Sigh. I wish I were able to sign up for this project, but with my fibromyalgia there's no way I could read all of the Dickens books chosen. "

Don't forget, it's going to stretch out ..."

Malcolm wrote: "You're entitled to express your differing opinion but nothing you can say is going to change my opinion of Wilkie Collins.

Just because his brand of pulp after TWIW became popular doesn't mean i..."

Wow! I seem to have offended you. I didn't set out to change your mind, just to voice your opinion. I think Collins was ground breaking. I think others were ground breaking as well. I love Gaskell, Braddon, and Trollope as well. I haven't read Edgeworth or Wood or Disreali yet so can't comment there. I happen to love Dickens as well. I don't see any of them as being below par. I think they are all great literature, but that's my opinion. I still think most of what you will read from this time period is so much better than most of what you get from modern "literature". I think the vampire crap of today is worthless along with every romance novel ever written. That doesn't mean that somebody out there doesn't think those are great literature. What works for me may not work for others, and I'm okay with that. My theory is if it gets people to read and to think about the human condition or history or social problems of the day or they learn something they didn't know, then it's fine by me.

You're in a dream world if you think that you've offended me in anyway. The only person I said was below par was Collins. The rest who I mentioned I rate highly even if some of them seemingly churned out popular pulp in their sleep.

If the yatch wreak of Armadale (1866) was a novel innovation which spawned a cliche then what was the shipwreak of Gaskell's Moorland Cottage (1850)?

The only true novel innovation of Armadale was a black central character. However, even this was flawed by the confusing issue of sharing his name with another central character.

Collins certainly could spin a yarn as his short stories and novels attest, but he was far from a writer of great literature with the notable exception of The Dead Secret, TWIW, and The Moonstone.

There are some academics who feel that Dickens must have collaborated with Collins to produce such an accomplished work (compared to hiss previous effforts). I'm prepared to give Collins the benefit of the doubt and think Dickens' input as a writer was minimal and extened little beyond editorial advisor.

However, I'm just saying I really don't consider Collins a writer of great literature. And as a writer generally I don't regard him that highly compared to his contempories.