The History Book Club discussion

Hello,

Welcome to the group discussion of the book HMS Surprise by Patrick O'Brian. This is the kick-off week and this discussion will by led by Assisting Moderator - Christopher Tolley.

During the week of March 28 – April 3 we are reading:

Week One - March 28 - April 3 - Chapter 1 - p. 5-27

This thread will discuss the following:

Week One - March 28 - April 3 - Chapter 1 - p. 5-27

Remember, these weekly non spoiler threads are just that - non spoiler. There are many other threads where "spoiler information" can be placed including the glossary and any of the other supplemental threads.

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we have done for other spotlighted reads.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, on iTunes for the ipad, Audible etc. There are also downloadable eBook versions available. However, be careful, if you do go for an audible version that some audible formats are abridged and not unabridged.

There is still time remaining to obtain the book and get started. There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Welcome,

Bentley

by Patrick O'Brian

Attached is the link to the full TOC and Syllabus:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

Here is a link to the Introduction Thread for this book:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

And here is the link to the glossary which is a spoiler thread where anything can be discussed regarding the book including historical events, famous people, locations, naval history depicted in the novel and the like.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

Hello everyone and welcome to our discussion of H.M.S. Surprise. I'm Chris Tolley and an O'Brian fan from way back, having read all the books, some several times. I always find something new and interesting in his books, which is why I find these discussions so absorbing. Without further ado, let's go straight at 'em.

In Chapter 1, O'Brian introduces us to his strange, unforgiving 19th century world. A high government official casually endangers the life of Naval Intelligence agent Stephen Maturin by revealing his identity. For his part, Maturin has a creepy obsession with Diana Villers, who is committing the 19th century sin of cohabiting out of wedlock, with a jew, no less. Sophia Williams' 'griping, illiberal,avid, tenacious, pinchfist lickpenny mother' won't let her marry her beloved Navy Captain Jack Aubrey because he cannot settle a sufficient fortune on her. Aubrey was fleeced twice, once by his unscrupulous prize/money agent, and once by the British government, by its failing to pay him lawful prize money.

What do you think of O'Brian's version of the 19th century? (Even sympathetic character Sir Joseph has porn right on the walls of his apartment) Is O'Brian exaggerating? If so, why? He seems to be informing the reader his characters and action will be constricted by a world with more uncertainty and ugliness than ours. What do you think?

And yet, I fell for Sophia all over again, not just her beauty but her 'firmness of character'. Similarly Maturin, wardrobe-challenged and curt as he is, could not be a better, more considerate friend to Sophia.

What were your impressions of Maturin? Sophia? Maturin's 'love' for Diana Villiers? The antique concept that navy captains are given a share of the value of ships they capture?

Feel free to comment on any of the above or anything else you found interesting.

The HMS Surprise starts out with no disappointment. You have to wonder if Jack Aubrey is living under some "ominous black cloud". How can lightning strike the same place twice; in this case how can Aubrey be victimized twice?

I guess the reader can suppose that if Aubrey has been victimized; this must mean that others were as well. I think that the "new administration" and "new leadership" has a lot to do with Aubrey's misfortune; just as he thought his money troubles were finally over; things fall apart.

The First Lord thinks there is something familiar about the Aubrey name and then he is reminded by his assistant. Once again the sins of the father come home to roost for the poor son. You have to feel very bad for Jack.

In the same meeting the new First Lord of the Admiralty mentions Stephen's name even though it is in a classified folder, blowing his cover as a spy which does not bode well for Stephen's safety. What a dolt...there were so many attempts to refer to the YELLOW color of the binder and the significance that this was not to be discussed. But this First Lord rushes in where angels fear to tread. Seems like rather an ignoramus.

Sir Joseph seems to be disgusted with this First Lord and looking around the room thinks he is surrounded by incompetents.

Sir Joseph took comfort from this - the gaffe might be forgotten.

'But still,' he said to himself, drawing the metamorphoses of a red admiral, egg, caterpillar, chrysalis and imago on his pad, 'what shall I say to him when we meet? What kind of face can I put on it, when I see him?'

Why is Sir Joseph thinking of Admirals, cocoons, and butterflies after his meeting with the Lord Commissioners?

And why "metamorphoses" as he dreads a meeting Stephen?

Does he wish a change in the Admiralty? Is he hoping to provide protection for Stephen or alter his image? Or does he wish that he himself could fly away?

I was trying to think of the meal that Maturin had with Sophia's family; unusual: (he had this)

Queen Victoria's Brown Windsor Soup



Ingredients:

2 tablespoons butter
1/4 lb stewing beef
1/4 lb lamb steak (or mutton if available)
4 cups good beef stock
1 medium onion, peeled and sliced
1 carrot, peeled and sliced
1 parsnip, peeled and sliced
2 tablespoons flour
1 bouquet garni
salt and pepper
1/4 teaspoon chili powder
1/2 cup cooked rice (optional)
1/4 cup madeira wine (optional)

Directions:
Prep Time: 10 mins
Total Time: 2 1/4 hrs

1 Cut the lamb and beef into 1-inch cubes and roll in the flour.
2 Place the butter in a large saucepan over a low to medium heat. (It is important not to turn the heat up too high since the butter burns easily. We want it to go brown, but not black!) Fry the meat off for 3 minutes and then add the rest of the flour and fry for a minute longer until the butter/flour is a golden brown.
3 Now add the sliced vegetables and stir in the stock, Throw in the bouquet garni, partially cover the saucepan, and simmer for 2 hours.
4 Puree the soup before adding the cooked rice if using; serve the soup piping hot with assorted breads and rolls. Traditionally a tablespoon of Madeira would be stirred into the soup at the table.

He also had Codfish and Pigeon Pie:

1243. - Yorkshire Goose Pie - 1250. - Codfish Pie

1243. - Yorkshire Goose Pie

Bone a goose, a fowl, and a pigeon; season them well with pepper, taking care to cover the whole of the interior, or otherwise it will turn sour before it can be eaten; put the pigeon into the fowl, and the fowl inside the goose, filling the interstices with various kinds of force and sausage meat and hard-boiled eggs. The liver and gizzard of the fowl and pigeon will assist in the forcemeat, which must be very well compounded; sew up the goose, and put it into a thick crust. It will take several hours to bake. Make savory jelly, which must also be well seasoned, pour it into the pie when it comes from the oven; ornament the top, and let it be movable, so that the pie may have a good appearance to the last, as the crust is not to be eaten. A calf's foot, boned and cut small, may be added, especially if used for the jelly-

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Baked Custard - the last course of Maturin's meal with the ladies


Old-Fashioned Baked Custard

Recipe Type: Puddings, Creams, & Custards
Yields: 6 servings
Prep time: 15 min
Cook time: 30 minutes

Ingredients:

4 to 6 eggs*
1/2 cup granulated sugar
2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon salt (optional)
3 cups milk, heated until very hot
Ground nutmeg or ground cinnamon for garnish, optional

* The amount of eggs used can vary according to your needs. When I make the custard for dessert, I usually use 4 eggs. When making for breakfast, I increase the recipe to 6 eggs.

Preparation:

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Adjust oven rack to center position. Lightly butter (or use non-fat vegetable spray) six (6-ounce) custard cups and set them into a large baking dish. If cooking custards in a metal pan, cover the bottom of the pan with a layer of newspaper to ensure an even temperature on the bottom.

In a large bowl, beat eggs slightly; add sugar, vanilla extract, and salt and beat until dissolved. Mix in hot milk until blended. Pour egg mixture into prepared custard cups. Sprinkle with nutmeg or cinnamon.

Bring the water for the water bath to a light simmer on top of the stove; carefully pour hot water into the baking pan to come half-way up the sides of the custard cups. NOTE: The most common mistake people make in baking a custard is not putting enough water in the hot-water bath. The water should come up to the level of the custard inside the cups. You must protect your custard from the heat. Carefully pour hot water into the baking pan to come halfway cup the sides of the custard cups.

Bake 25 to 30 minutes or until set around the edges but still loose in the center. The cooking time will depend largely on the size of the custard cup you are using, but begin checking at 20 minutes and check back regularly. When the center of the custard is just set, it will jiggle a little when shaken, that's when you can remove it from the oven. Remove from oven and immediately remove cups from water bath; cool on wire rack until room temperature. Cover with plastic wrap, and refrigerate at least 2 hours or up to 2 days.

Makes 6 servings (depending on size of custard cups).

I thought that everything looked quite good except for the pigeon pie; not sure I would be able to handle that.

Goodness, I thought he was done stuffing himself and now he is eating crumpets.

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James Beard recipe:

Ingredients:
1/2 cup milk
1/2 cup boiling water
2-1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast
1 teaspoon granulated sugar
1-1/2 teaspoons salt
1-3/4 cups all-purpose flour
1/4 teaspoon baking soda, dissolved in 1 tablespoon hot water
8 to 10 buttered flan rings or tuna cans with tops and bottoms removed

Directions:
1) Combine milk and boiling water in a large bowl. Cool until lukewarm. Add yeast and sugar. Let sit for 5 minutes, or until bubbly. Mix salt with flour. Add to yeast mixture and beat with a spoon for several minutes. Let batter rise until doubled in bulk and slightly bubbly. Beat dissolved soda into batter. Let rise again until doubled in bulk.
2) Heat a griddle or large frying pan over medium-hot heat. Position buttered rings in pan. Spoon batter into rings to a depth of about 1/2-inch. Cook until dry and bubbly on top. Remove rings, turn crumpets and brown lightly on the other side. Transfer to a rack to cool. Toast and butter to serve. Yield: 8 to 10 servings.

Stephen's obsessions with Diana border I think on being quite weird and during that period in history it seems to me that there was quite a bit of bias against Canning's religious background. Odd, how in those days they spoke of minorities of all sorts with no regard to any political correctness. Having their every movement investigated is stalking from my viewpoint. I really do not think that he could stand being passed over for another man and because of his prejudices I think it bothered him even more.

Even though Sophie is so enthralled with Aubrey; it seems that Maturin and Sopie have a more natural connection. Diana and Aubrey seem rather alike.

Stephen tries to help Sophie out by explaining that on Britain's side are Austria, Sweden, Naples (which is the same as the Two Sicilies), and Russia. On the other side are a host of little states and Bavaria, Holland and Spain. And sometimes Stephen explains that some of these alliances change sides like the Russians who were against us until they strangled their Tsar and now are with us. The Austrians left the war in 97 and then again a few years later.

He explained to Sophie that what matters to Britain are Holland and Spain. Stephen explains to her that these two matter because they have navies. And if ever this war is to be won; it must be won at sea. He explains that Bonaparte has 45 ships and Britain has 80 or so. The problem for Britain is that their ships are scattered all over the world and his are not.

He explains that the Spaniards have 27 to say nothing of the Dutch. So Stephen explains that the strategy that is essential is to prevent them from combining.

Because if Bonaparte can secure and put together a superior force in the Channel; even for a little while, then his invasion army can come across - god forbid - Stephen explains.

And that explains Stephen is why Jack and Lord Nelson are beating up and down at Toulon and bottling up the French's 7 frigates and 11 ships of line preventing them in combining with the Spaniards.

I was wondering myself what to think about Sir Joseph; it seems that O'Brian is implying that Stephen was not invited to his primary house but to another more private house which had "pornography on the walls????" I too do not know what to make of this. Of course, I guess some would think that the nude Michelangelo statues are pornography or that some art is pornography; but O'Brian seems to suggest that Sir Joseph used this second private house for other endeavors. I was at a loss to understand what O'Brian was suggesting but there seems to be an undercurrent of sordidness during this time period. Sir Joseph seemed to call it his private refuge and said he invited Stephen there to give him a private explanation - we can presume about how the First Lord blew Stephen's cover.

Excellent chapter Chris and we are off.

Bentley wrote: "Goodness, I thought he was done stuffing himself and now he is eating crumpets..."

Very funny, Bentley - and terrific of you to bring history to life!

How about adding one of your diet books to the post...

Bentley wrote: "... more private house which had "pornography o..."

They're British, right?!? .... but then the Pope Adrian VI also had a problem with the Sistine Chapel paintings... he probably would have preferred Adam and the angels to wear their undies...

André wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Goodness, I thought he was done stuffing himself and now he is eating crumpets..."

Very funny, Bentley - and terrific of you to bring history to life!

How about adding one of your..."

Andre, I could do that; but that would spoil it when I eating my baked custard and reading the thread.

André wrote: "Bentley wrote: "... more private house which had "pornography o..."

They're British, right?!? .... but then the Pope Adrian VI also had a problem with the Sistine Chapel paintings... he probably w..."

That is what I was thinking. Victorian thinking versus the other. But why the secret house...you have to wonder while reading...and Christopher pointed it out earlier in his summary.