On Reading Graphic Novels discussion

I just don't really get the appeal.

He comes off as just kind of a smugger less sincere Alan Moore.

Am I just completely off base here or what?

I don't think he's on the same level as Moore (who is? :) but he was making some very important and freaky work on mainstream characters about the same time in the 80s. He tries to be as outrageous as possible without becoming Garth Ennis (who really is a poor caricature of the angry English writer). I personally enjoyed several storyarcs from The Invisibles, and a few graphic novels like Arkham Asylum and Kill Your Boyfriend.

His stuff can be uneven sometimes, but he's willing to get in and mess around in the underpinnings of an ongoing, established universe the way Alan Moore isn't, and he's way more prolific. But if he doesn't reach the same heights, who can blame him?

If you want to read some high points of his Superhero stuff I'd recommend his transformative work on JLA back at the end of the 90s, along with the current run on All-Star Superman, which may well be some of the best work he's ever done. There's also a lot to like about his Doom Patrol series, although you'll probably get the "not as good as Alan Moore" feeling while you're reading.

The Filth was pretty good as well, managing to tell a focused coherent story that, in my opinion, outshone the mess that marred the end of the Invisibles series.

To be honest, I find Alan Moore to be quite smug. Still, he has reason to be, I suppose.

We3 is absolutely astounding, but for a lot of Grant's post Invisibles work I find that his work can be too short. Arkham Asylum wasn't long enough by half, in my estimation.

Still, if it's about coming up with new, challenging ideas, and working with the cutting edge of artists, Grant Morrison is totally on point.

I entirely agree with Giacomo's comment re: Garth Ennis, by the way.

Personally with Grant Morrison i feel the man is a wonderful ideas factory, which allows him to write some truly wonderfuly crazy comics. However i do feel sometimes he might want to pull back on producing ideas constantly and focus more on a coherant narrative. Animal and We3 i think are the best examples of where his ideas have lifted the story, wereas some of the recent Batman stuff appears to be slightly floundering in a sea of mad thinking.
Oh and as for Garth Ennis i personally really enjoy his work, the wonderful relationships his chracters have seem so real and grounded which juxaposes nicely with the ultraviolence and general craziness. Also like Ennis I come from Northern Ireland so i relate to a lot of his issues with the control others try to exert over your life. I realise Giacomo probably wasn't saying Ennis was English, but i feel i should say in case anyone is confused that he is not English, he's Irish

Cesar, I have to disagree on Arkham Asylum being superior to Killing Joke. They are very different stories... and to be honest, AA is clearly more McKean than Morrison, whereas KJ is clearly more Moore than Bolland.

I'm not saying that Morrison is "inferior" to Moore in any way (far from it; if anything, Morrison is so much younger and his work is still improving, whereas Moore might have peaked), I just don't think it's fair to compare these two specific works by concentrating on the writing.

While I agree Moore did some wonderfully innovative things, he has worn on me in recent years. LOEG was brilliant, and I liked some of the ABC stuff, but too often he seems to be doing weird for the sake of weird. Honestly, he is more of a mainstream writer than he is credited as, and just too much of a curmudgeon to be content.

Morrison I see as totally different from Moore, though they are often associated together for their "weirdness" factor. Anyone who is just recently being exposed to Morrison via Batman RIP should definitely read something else, as I think it is some of his poorer work. Morrison has a great ability to be weird when the title calls for it, but he also has the ability to be innovative - and not just weird - when he is doing more mainstream work. For instance, The Invisibles and The Filth are extremely bizarre, bizarre reads - but completely appropriate for the goal and audience. On the other hand, his run on Uncanny X-Men, and even more so the amazing work in All Star Superman, are fresh takes on tired and well-worn stories/characters. My point is that Morrison is really dynamic - if you don't like one title he writes, try something else.

Lastly, I have to take issue with the statement that Ennis is "a poor caricature of the angry English writer." First, I'd say Warren Ellis claims that title long before Ennis would; second, I really enjoy Ennis' work, and he is what he is. That kind of criticism seems analogous to criticizing Sergio Leone because a film didn't have emotional depth or powerful drama; well, he doesn't do those. If you're looking for spaghetti westerns, there is no one finer.

Now, now, Sergio is da man :) his movies have all the emotional depth and drama they need, and more :) and he's done "Once Upon A Time in America", not just spaghetti-western...

Back to comics, Warren "internet jesus" Ellis can be boring and exploitative, but his work on Planetary and Transmetropolitan (and Lazarus Churchyard!) was excellent. He's one of the very few comic writers who were "accepted in the mainstream", which is telling.

I don't think Ennis can go anywhere near that; I haven't read much from him after Preacher (which was good), because he doesn't end up in regular bookshops (and that's also telling), but what I have was terribly, terribly poor, gratuitous and flat.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the strong current of Qabalah and Thelemic magick in Morrison's work. The Invisibles, The Filth, and Arkham Assylum are are all prime examples.

Yeah I remember once many ages ago John Byrne taking over Supervam and reeevamping it completely, to more modern times.... AllStar is just incredible in the sense that is the best take on a character that every artist in comics maybe tried his hand at least once....

And I still remember Crazy Jane very well....

I think these more esoteric themes largely go over the heads of most readers, but are the deeper layers for those who recognize and truly appreciate, and a big part of what makes his work stand apart for me personally.

I just read All Star Superman.

Wow.

I'll go through this thread to look for recommendations but does anyone have any must-reads?

Yeah, the esoteric themes are a big hook for me when it comes to Morrison, and Moore. It's pretty impressive to be able to make them prominant without loosing the readers that may not be informed about, or interested in, those facets of the work. Much props to both authors.

Thanks for the list, Cesar.

The art in Arkham Asylum rubbed me the wrong way. Mostly the typography, if you can even call it that. I appreciated the story. But I don't know. Overall, it just wasn't my cup of tea, I guess.

I read We3 a while ago but should probably re-read it. I recently found out that Grant Morrison is vegetarian (yay!) so it makes sense that he wrote this. And I heard they were making a movie...?

I'll probably end up checking out the rest too. Thanks again.

As a huge Morrison fan (he's one of the author's - along with Alan Moore, Octavia Butler, Chester Himes and Walter Mosley - that penned works which inspired me to write): I will say everything I've seen from him was always "interesting" but, in my eyes, his stories never seemed to straddle the middle (as far as personal enjoyment went). They were either home runs or strike outs (at least on initial reads. It took me three pass throughs to "get" what The Filth was about ... but maybe I'm just slow lol). Atzek: The ultimate man is a personal favorite. Glad they're finally putting the stories out in trade form.

Very cool thread :-).

I just finished Morrison's run of Animal Man a while back. And despite the fact that I hadn't even heard of Animal Man before, I really got into the character. Honestly, his powers are kind of lame and seem like something a 1st grader would dream up (namely, someone like me), but I thought it was handled really well. In some ways, the fact that his powers were so lame made him more relatable. It's a side of superheroes that I hadn't seen before. He's got a family to support (his son is such a little brat) and he's just trying to help people and be a good person.

Didn't care much for Morrison's breaking of the fourth wall. It was interesting as a justification for his reinvention of Animal Man but it just got kind of weird in the last couple issues. Took it a little too far.

I'm a big believer in animal rights. And human rights. And environmentalism. I feel like they all have a lot to do with each other. Animal Man just hit home in a lot of ways. We don't get a lot of vegetarians in the comics industry outside of like minicomics and independent press. It was really refreshing and some of the covers were really great. #18 was a personal favorite.

Haven't tackled The Filth or The Invisibles, yet. I re-read WE3 and it's still good, not great. Worth-reading but I don't feel the need to own a copy. Don't know how they're going to squeeze a movie out of it but I guess Morrison wrote the screenplay so hopefully it'll be good.

Love Morrison and Moore. Have they been doing anything in the last year or so? I've been reading some titles but really haven't been buying any new stuff. Mostly been buying every 3 months or so my order of fables, hellblazer, 100 bullets, y etc. and now that several of those are done with I probably should check out some new titles.

I think Morrison does his best when he is not tackling infamous characters who have long been established. He has some interesting ideas and can be very experimental which is always great to see, even if I hate the story I appreciate a new approach. It is the only way the medium will continue to grow and evolve...

With that said though, you can't lose your reader...
Which he has done with RIP and Final Crisis and I've been talking a lot with people who stop into the shop about how he ruined Batman /and/or the DC Universe. Which is only half true...

If you are looking for some good Morrison stories that were actual with mainstream legends, I say read his early X-Men stuff! It was a great ride w/ some of my favorite stories since the early Claremont days!

In my own humble opinion Morrison is a VERY talented writer. He is not Alan Moore, the two are apples and oranges. They both arrived on the scene around the same time when they invaded American comics w/ Gaimen back in the day but all of them brilliant in their own styles.

All doing some of their best (early) work with Vertigo! Animal Man, The Invisibles and w3 are great reads that I try to introduce people to, who are just now coming into Morrisons name being slapped onto thier favorite DC Hero and well... Not being amused. But that is another post entirely!

Morrison is a difficult writer to completely comprehend. And I think he can be extraordinarily inconsistent. He wrote some amazing stuff, and he wrote some stuff that just leaves you wondering what just happened. New X-Men, All-Star Superman, various parts of his Batman runs, We3... all those are amazing. Then you get into stuff like Final Crisis and you just have to wonder where that came from. So yeah, Grant Morrison can be great, but he can also be very inconsistent.

That's why it's important to stay on your meds.

Morrison is a love/hate kind of writer. Personally, I don't really like him but I can often see where he's going with something and why it's a good idea. WE3 is absolutely brilliant, and when he's got carte blanche to run with his own ideas he's very good. On the other hand, although many people liked it I hated his run on New X-Men. It was hailed as different and revolutionary - to me it struck me as he didn't understand or appreciate the characters at all and just gave them new personalities to suit the storylines he wanted to write. It was like he wrote the Invisibles into an X-Men storyline. I don't think it's fair to compare him to Alan Moore - Moore's work on things like Watchmen, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Top Ten and V For Vendetta wasn't particularly metaphysical or conceptual like Morrison tends to. I remember seeing artist Frank Quitely speak at a panel at the Toronto Comicon and he said the hardest thing about working with Morrison was how he often asked him to draw concepts that didn't exist or had never been seen by the human eye - for example, Quitely was requested to draw the amino acids coming together to form the first living cell on earth. I think he was quite justified in asking "How the heck do you draw that?" Morrison's bread and butter is abstract concepts and different ways of thinking. I can appreciate that but I think it's best to keep him away from superheroes and keep him on his avant garde projects.