History, Medicine, and Science: Nonfiction and Fiction discussion

I hope the rest of you are enjoying Blood Work: A Tale of Medicine and Murder in the Scientific Revolutionas much as I am. Man, oh man, our Holly can write.

In the Prologue, Holly gives us two really juicy questions to think about as we read:
1. Should a society set limits on its science?
2. If so, how and at what price?

I'd like to add a couple of ideas for us to consider:

1. Once again, we're looking at a paradigm shift: this time a shift that makes it possible for scientists to consider transfusion. How does this shift differ from the one some of us saw in The Ghost Map: The Story of London's Most Terrifying Epidemic--and How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World?

2. What happens to that paradigm shift as the story continues?

3. I find the progress from practicing on corpses to animals to a mad man interesting/horrifying. (Am I the only person squirming at the descriptions of vivisection and transfusion?)It seems to me that there are issues here not only of soul and mind, but awareness.

I look forward to hearing what y'all think.

I'm engrossed in this book, and I know Holly's gift for narrative voice is the main reason. I hope she has more projects to share with us in the future.

I can't seem to reconcile myself to the idea of "society" putting limits on science and investigation and questioning the paradigms that define the society in the first place. Scientists (and people) have ideas -- nothing can stop that act. Ideas, once shared, take on a life of their own--creating a network of consequences that a "society" can't begin to control or predict.

For example,
A NPR story this week tells the story of the first "pulseless" artificial heart transplant.

Heart With No Beat Offers Hope Of New Lease On Life
http://www.npr.org/2011/06/13/1370292...

This article quotes the doctor/inventor explaining the paradigm shift we need to make to "allow" the thought of a living human without a "pulse" to drive more research and invention. He likened it to the first attempts at flying machines that tried to imitate the flapping wings of birds -- the only things around that "flew" in those days. Cohn, the doctor, says "There are very few flying machines in modern times that have flapping wings. And I think this is the same intellectual leap in pumping blood or pumping fluids."

Rather than limiting or outlawing scientific research, I think our society needs to communicate openly, discuss ethics and be aware of other sides and perspectives to issues -- not hide from them.

I think paradigm shifts happens at different levels:

1. At one level, the society we live in limits the questions we ask. Paradigm shifts allow new questions to be asked.
2. At another level, what we know shapes how we look for answers. This is the level of paradigm shift that allows the leap from flapping wings to stable wings.

Neither of these constraints are externally imposed. For instance, I doubt if anyone ever said: "Oh no, we can't have something that flies without flapping."

That said,once an idea has been raised, church, state and what-have-you can try to regulate an idea out of existence. (Think of Galileo.) But it doesn't really work. (Again, think of Galileo.)

In terms of society's limits on science, what about the human experimentation aspect of this transfusion work? The poor , the "mad", the incarcerated have often been the subjects of experimentation. I am glad that we live in a society that tries to exercise some control in this area.
But I think that having religious institutions have influence over scientific work is a mistake.

itpdx wrote: "In terms of society's limits on science, what about the human experimentation aspect of this transfusion work? The poor , the "mad", the incarcerated have often been the subjects of experimentatio..."

As far as I'm concerned, one of the most horrifying aspects of this story is the idea that the powerless and voiceless can be experimented on with impunity. I think that's going to come up again next month when we read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.

itpdx wrote: "In terms of society's limits on science, what about the human experimentation aspect of this transfusion work? The poor , the "mad", the incarcerated have often been the subjects of experimentatio..."

To lighten up the discussion a bit :-), I suggest you take a look at this pictorial review of "Blood Work"--

http://warriormommy.blogspot.com/2011...

The Pirate vs. Ninja cartoon is absolutely hilarious--in a gruesome sort of way.

judy, very funny--i'll say it again--thank god i wasn't born during that time.

Please don't forget to listen to my interview of Holly in Books and Ideas #42.

Talking with Holly really stimulated my interest in the history of medicine. I am now trying to tackle Roy Porter's classic, Blood and Guts: A Short History of Medicine.

ginger--how do i find books and ideas #42?

Ginger wrote: "Please don't forget to listen to my interview of Holly in Books and Ideas #42.

Talking with Holly really stimulated my interest in the history of medicine. I am now trying to tackle Roy Porter's c..."

What a great interview. Thanks for sharing it.

Bunnie wrote: "ginger--how do i find books and ideas #42?"

Bunnie: The words "Books and Ideas" are a direct link. Just click on them and it will take you there.

Pamela wrote: "Bunnie wrote: "ginger--how do i find books and ideas #42?"

Bunnie: The words "Books and Ideas" are a direct link. Just click on them and it will take you there."

Thanks Pam. Do you think I need to make my links more explicit?

Ginger wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Bunnie wrote: "ginger--how do i find books and ideas #42?"

Bunnie: The words "Books and Ideas" are a direct link. Just click on them and it will take you there."

Thanks Pam. Do y..."

Ginger:

I think your links are fine. There's a learning curve for all of us on using Goodreads.

Absolutely terrific interview, Ginger -- thanks for sharing the link!

I also really appreciate the addition links on your website -- it's makes further reading so much easier.

pamela--ok i tried the link--it worked thanks.

Bunnie wrote: "pamela--ok i tried the link--it worked thanks."

Glad it worked.

I really enjoyed this book. Blood Work and Stiff together made from some great vacation reading! Interestingly, Blood Work made me squirm more than Stiff. I attribute this to Pam's point above - the idea that "the powerless and voiceless can be experimented on with impunity". Having a system of checks and balances on human experimentation is imperative, but otherwise setting limits on science seems short sighted and not really possible anyway. As others have said, you can't stop people from having ideas. It seems more ethical and better for the creative process as well that they can work on and explore those ideas in the open.

amanda--blood work was an excellent book and had nothing to do with the fact that the use of animals bothered me a lot. Holly's writing is excellent. science has to use animals to solve the problems of medicine and disease --we should thank all the poor helpless animals that have unwillingly donated their bodies to our benefit. the history of transfusions is something i have never read about before so thanks to Holly i now have.

This book is very popular at my local library. I have been on a waiting list since June!

Was just able to read it the first week in September.