Reading Group Gold discussion

How did you come up with the idea of writing about the Vietnam war through the eyes of a photo journalist? Did you ever have photo journalist experience?

I am interested in your writing process. Do scenes "come to you" (while you aren't writing or thinking about writing) or do you pro-actively devise them while writing?

I'm asking because this was a book that I "felt" as much as thought about. The feelings were very forefront for some reason. (Hope this makes sense)

What was your research process like? Did you visit Vietnam at all? (I was really struck how realistic you made the book feel)

I,too am interested in your background and research for this book. How did you learn so much about the Vietman War from this perspective? It seemed so realistic. Have you been to Vietnam?

I am planning an upcoming trip to Vietnam. How can I get a feel of what the Vietnamese endured during the American occupation and its destruction of their way of life.

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for taking part in this discussion with me. I haven't done Goodreads before, but I do book clubs regularly so I'll do the same format, which is basically ask me whatever you want, about the book or the writing process, and hopefully we can get an interesting conversation going from there.
Tatjana

Hi Susan! That's a great question because it's really the the first thing one needs in a novel, which is a voice or point-of-view. I'd been long fascinated by the Vietnam war, then I became fascinated by Vietnam as a country, but none of this added up to a story until I discovered a picture of a female photojournalist who worked there. That discovery gave me a way into the story to explore the things that I was interested in, which are similar in ways to a soldier's experience, but also very, very different.

Okay, I'm off for my first coffee of the day and then I'll be back to address the other questions. I'm a late riser and a night-owl so, yes, that's really me posting that late! :)

Hi Susan! After coffee I realized I need to elaborate a bit on the choice of photo-journalist. First of all, I have a real fascination with the work. The risks that journalists are taking today, not only in the war zones but the danger zones of the world. Such a complex mix of motivations which are identical from the Vietnam era to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya today.
Why did I choose a photographer over a journalist? Because the work makes it unavoidable to always be up close. Also, selfishly as a novelist, it allowed me to really describe the visual, in more depth, as part of the job.

Hi Susan,
We read The Lotus Eaters in my book group for June 2011 and I thought the book was terrific--just amazing, which made the two minor things I disliked even more irritating: The picture on the hardcover edition. Totally wrong. That isn't Helen! (Marketing and creative dept at your publisher's?) And after I read the book I didn't like the title. Did you always have this title of the book or did you have a working title, if so, what was it?

Hi Wendy! I assume you are addressing the above comment to me? :) That's very interesting about your reaction to the cover. Many women have said they liked it; others had your reaction. Of course, these choices are marketing driven by the publisher, but the biggest reason I had for urging a change in the mood on the paperback was that men were writing to me who liked the book but were embarrassed to be seen reading it with that dust-jacket. I guess the lesson is that you can't please everyone.

To John's excellent question about the writing process for this book. I take it as a compliment that you "felt" the book more than thought about it. My take on writing is that you are providing this vessel in order to transfer these very delicate emotions and feelings from writer to reader. I started and still continue to write short stories, and I write novels in the same way, which is one sentence at a time, generating the story organically through language. I would not know how to do a plot outline to save my life!

I've had a long day of revising so I'm going to go have some dinner, but I might check back in late night to answer some more questions.

I always like to know where people are writing from so if you want to include that, please do. I'm in Southern California, and we are starting our real summer with hot days and cool evenings.

Another question (I'm in New Jersey, by the way): does writing "one sentence at a time" mean that your decisions like narrator and structure are all automatic and intuitive, or are these conscious decisions for you? Also, back on the "feeling" content of the writing, are you vicariously feeling along with the characters as you write? (this is very interesting to me)

Meg - A Bookish Affair wrote: "What was your research process like? Did you visit Vietnam at all? (I was really struck how realistic you made the book feel)"

Hi Meg! It was a daunting decision for me when I finally decided to tackle writing about the war myself. I'd been fascinated by it all by life (I spent two years of my early childhood at Fort Ord military base in the late '60's) so I'd already read all the fiction, seen the movies, had an idea of what the war was. So I began the research with an idea of the body of literature already existing on Vietnam in my head.

I read non-fiction, historical things about the war itself, documentaries, testimonials. I also read many academic type books on Vietnamese culture, the history of colonialism there, things like that. The bibliography at the end of the book isn't what I'd recommend for a general reader, but what I used for accuracy in the book ( I have a recommended reading list on my website). This process, BTW, took my about a year and a half. I filled many notebooks. AND THEN, I wrote the first scene.

John wrote: "Another question (I'm in New Jersey, by the way): does writing "one sentence at a time" mean that your decisions like narrator and structure are all automatic and intuitive, or are these conscious ..."

Hi John! Good for you keeping at me to answer your question! Yes, I mean by "sentence at a time" that the story flows intuitively on a scene level. I think that's the way you get surprises in the writing. If I set myself the goal of a scene in which such and such happens, most of the time the writing comes off as being too predictable. If it bores me it will definitely bore the reader. The downside to going with your intuition is that in revision, there is more cutting and shaping. You push the envelope too far, or you go off on tangents (ask my editor about that!). But hopefully you have something good to cut and shape.

I don't mean intuitively regarding narrator and structure. The idea to write LE came to me when I thought of writing from the POV of a woman photojournalist so I envisioned the story through her eyes from the beginning. I also knew I wanted to have an equal POV from a Vietnamese character. So these were very conscious decisions. Who exactly these characters were developed intuitively through the needs of the story.

Ahhh! Such good questions I could go on and on. I'll write more about structure and feeling later today.

Wendy wrote: "Hi Susan,
We read The Lotus Eaters in my book group for June 2011 and I thought the book was terrific--just amazing, which made the two minor things I disliked even more irritating: The picture on ..."

Hi Wendy! Before I answer about the choice of the title, can you tell me why you didn't like it after reading the book? It's always interesting as a writer to know how things come off to readers.

Anyone else want to weigh in on the title? Yeah or nay?

Gail wrote: "I,too am interested in your background and research for this book. How did you learn so much about the Vietman War from this perspective? It seemed so realistic. Have you been to Vietnam?"

Hi Gail! This is to answer your question and kind of continue on with Meg's question on research. When I began researching the book, there was not a lot of enthusiasm for the idea of a Vietnam book from a female perspective. I think publishing wisdom at the time was that Vietnam had to be geared for a male, military audience to find a readership. So I began the book as a very personal project. I always thought I would go to Vietnam eventually, after a certain point in the book. My efforts also were focused on learning about combat, photography, the 60's & 70's era.

Long story short, by the time I had been writing it four years in, I felt very at home in the historical Vietnam I created. I worried that going to modern country might break that dream for me. Writers are very superstitious! So at a certain point, I decided not to go.

My husband and I visited last November, after the hardback publication, and it was incredibly moving for me. I knew as much as our Vietnamese tour guide about the history of the war, but seeing things first hand was wonderful. And of course, the countryside is timeless, but nothing like it was during the war. It's a thriving country and after living with such devastation for so long, it is a renewing thing to see. There is only one small scene I would add having visited, and it's in the Cholon section at the beginning of the novel.

Whew! It's late so I'll continue on tomorrow.

Robert Frost said he didn't feel he was "A Poet", just that he was a fellow who attempted to create poems - sometimes he succeeded, sometimes he failed. I think this is a good way of thinking about the artistic process. So, how did you feel about the Lotus Eaters when it was wrapped, bagged and tagged? Did you consider it "real art"? Did you have doubts?

Hi John! Well, I definitely have to defer to Robert Frost on this one. I would seriously worry about the writer who said that she thought that a particular work of her own was perfection. I don't think it's possible, but I also don't think it's a healthy attitude for the work. You hurry to the next book hoping to correct the mistakes you made in the last one, but you probably end up making new ones. That's the process.

There were things that I really wanted to write about in LE, and sections I'm happy with. But since it was published I can't read the book through because I see the things I would change now. That's true for my short stories also. You do the best you can at that moment in your writing life, and then move on. There is always doubt.

Tiki wrote: "I am planning an upcoming trip to Vietnam. How can I get a feel of what the Vietnamese endured during the American occupation and its destruction of their way of life."

Hi Tiki! First of all, you will have a wonderful time. It is a beautiful country, with warm, kind people. Obviously so long after the war, the signs of it are thankfully disappearing. Half the population is under thirty years old, and the war is really a disappearing memory.

For me simply seeing everyday life, both in Saigon and in the Mekong Delta, helped me imagine what the devastation of the war must have meant to the country. I felt a deep resonance as I traveled through the south so I would encourage you to do a lot reading beforehand.

One example of the Vietnamese resilience can be seen at the Cu Chi tunnels outside of Saigon, which is pretty much a standard stop for tours. When you learn of the living conditions they endured for so many years, it's astounding.

I thought the title was appropriate because of Helen's inability to return home due to her state of mind. Also an Odyssey reference is immediately understood by all.

Hi Tatjana,
Your book was recommended by my local book club a few months back. I have the paperback version and love the cover with the floral design (lotus flowers?) at the top and a bay in Vietnam in the lower portion. The title is perfect IMO, as John says, it fits both Helen and Sam. Plus, it opens with the Odyssey reference...nice. Thank you for adding a map so I didn't have to get out globe.

While reading, there were many times I had to stop and just sob. There were a few panic attacks along the way too. Your writing made me feel like I was there - I got so nervous and was literally at the edge of my seat! If I was a nail-biter, I would have no nails left LOL. Did you find yourself feeling those emotions while writing? How were you able to separate yourself from your story and live in the "real world"?

Oh, forgot to mention, I'm in Washington State but visit Southern Calif twice a year :)

I agree with John that the title was very appropriate to the situation, given the reference to the Odyssey.

I can't help but wonder about the editing process. Does the editor help by offering suggestions for clarification of what is written, simplify the language, or make wholesale changes? How long does the editing process take? Thanks.

Lisa wrote: "Hi Tatjana,
Your book was recommended by my local book club a few months back. I have the paperback version and love the cover with the floral design (lotus flowers?) at the top and a bay in Vietna..."

Hi Lisa! Thank you for the wonderful comments on the book. It's really nice to hear when a reader connects with the story in such a visceral way. I think your question about feeling the emotions while you are writing is the number one reason why one writes. One has these obsessions and by writing the book, you get to explore them in a very deep way.

It was hard for me during the research and writing to emotionally disconnect from the material. It's a very dark period of our history, and reading and writing about such suffering is difficult. That was one of my main motivators for visiting Vietnam, to get beyond the war. The most curious aspect of my writing since the trip is that my writing about Vietnam has become contemporary, dealing with the past, but not locked into that time period. So it was a healing.

So let's talk about the title. I'd read The Odyssey in college, of course, but as I was beginning to think about the characters of Helen and Sam, I came across the passage quoted in the book, especially the line: "All they now wanted was to stay where they were... to browse on the lotus, and to forget all thought of return." That haunted me, and I wrote it on an index card above my desk, to remind myself of the journey each of my characters was on. These were sailors who had not been home for a decade, had been to war, and yet they lost their way.

In my research, this happened to many of the journalists. They forgot about normal life. War became a way of life. Fascinating notion. Many of them were not caught up in the thrill-seeking aspect of the job. The horror of what was happening, and being officially denied, fueled them to tell the real story.

I was lucky in that the publisher never questioned the title.

I promise tomorrow I'm going to get to John's question about structure, which I've been thinking about a great deal lately. Night.

I felt very lucky that after reading "The Sorrow of War" (from North Vietnam perspective) I ran across "The Lotus Eaters". You are right about the "time of pain" thing. It really was all of that. Then, almost immediately after reading LE, "The Matterhorn" came out. It is sort of the Iliad to your Odyssey. After reading these three books, I couldn't take any more Viet Nam war books for a while. I tried, but was full up. There is a lot of pain in these three books. When do you think this war will be over?

One of the things that got me was how hard Helen tried to get Sam to leave Vietnam with her, to be safe, but Sam kept coming up with excuses - just one more assignment, etc. In time, Helen became just like Sam. Perhaps she was always like him but didn't know it until later. Sam did say that Helen was like a younger version of himself, didn't he? I can see how it can happen for a journalist - the drive to get the real story and be the first to put it out there.

After reading LE, I wanted to read more about Vietnam and looked over your list of recommended reading but I need to pace myself emotionally. I saw 'The Matterhorn' and added it to my TBR list. Yeah, what was it about this war that makes it so hard to lay it to rest?

That sounds like a good way to heal after finishing this book, Tatjana - to see present-day Vietnam. I've read that some of our vets have visited there and it has helped them in the healing process.

Although Lotus Eaters is strictly about the Vietnam war, I believe that the circumstances of the war — that the ostensible cause, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, was manufactured to allow us to intervene in the affairs of a Southeast Asian country, in the cause of fighting the threat of Communism — makes it a very apt metaphor for conflicts today. It was also a turning point in our naivete as a country that we were always on the side of good. I think those are some of the reasons why it is still so compelling to many.

I always urge readers to start with Tim O'Brien's books for a real understanding of Vietnam. His books made me understand that the personal is always political. Besides the fact that he is a master stylist.

Lisa wrote: "One of the things that got me was how hard Helen tried to get Sam to leave Vietnam with her, to be safe, but Sam kept coming up with excuses - just one more assignment, etc. In time, Helen became j..."

Hi Lisa! I really did want to convey how this obsession can grow as a natural outcome of operating in the world of war. A few readers have thought that this was a bit fanciful, or dramatic, but the journalists who have written to me have said that it was true to their experience. I have been reading about a photographer who lost both his legs in a landmine accident in Afghanistan. While he's still in rehab, he's asking how soon it will be before he can go to Libya.

Wow...it's as if it gets in their blood. I'm wondering if that happens in other fields, like gold mining, for instance. Just the little bit of gold panning I've done, it's hard to stop because you just know that there's a gold nugget or more right there - it can drive you crazy, gold fever takes over. That's not a very good comparison, but you know what I mean? An obsession.

Another question about Helen's inexperience as a photographer. It blew me away when she asked Sam for help loading film in her camera! Did you find in researching, that it was fairly easy to get hired like that in a war zone back then? Was it just her timing (beginning of women's lib?) - applying for a job no women were lining up for - Helen was their token female photo journalist, hired to cover human-interest pieces?

Lisa wrote: "Wow...it's as if it gets in their blood. I'm wondering if that happens in other fields, like gold mining, for instance. Just the little bit of gold panning I've done, it's hard to stop because you ..."

That was part of my fascination in reading about the journalists during the Vietnam war. There were quite a few who went there with zero experience and learned on the job. For a freelancer, it was wide open. You could rent a car and drive to the war zone. That is simply not possible in today's wars, with the requirements of being credentialed and embedded.

I did read about a female photographer (can't remember the name right now) who refused to go back to Iraq as an embedded journalist. She said that she felt it limited her ability to cover the civilian crisis. BTW, even now there are only a handful of women who are combat photo-journalists.

John wrote: "Another question (I'm in New Jersey, by the way): does writing "one sentence at a time" mean that your decisions like narrator and structure are all automatic and intuitive, or are these conscious ..."

That's a great question about structure. Coming from a short story background, I did begin writing the novel in a fairly intuitive way, but afterwards, in revision, that's where the structural decisions began. Strangely enough, I began with the first chapter, which is the end of the book, and then wrote the chronological beginning. When I finished the first draft, I was urged to put the first chapter at the end, but it felt wrong. I wanted the emphasis to be on "why" the story happened this way, rather than "what" happened. So structure is a way to organize how your reader interprets the story in a very conscious, editorial way.

How did you decide on the ending for this story? I wondered about this in relation to the Vietnam War and the romantic storyline when I finished reading the book. Also, do your editors ask you to change and/or rewrite when the book is complete or is it a step by step process as you complete portions of the book? I live in Washington State and am an elementary school teacher.

If we could peek into Linh and Helen's lives today, what would we see? I'm so happy LE had the ending it did because I was afraid it would go a different way.

Also, another question(s) - Sam and later Linh were mentors to Helen. Tatjana, who mentored you? Did you always intend to be a writer?

Snuck in an early morning hike since the weather is cool for a change, but back at my desk for the rest of the day.

To answer both John and Gail's questions about the editorial process, I'd say that it depends on the individual book, but also on the writer and editor's working style. From my own experience, I like to work alone, without input, so I give the finished manuscript to my editor. She sends back both general comments and specific line edits. Then it's really a back-and-forth process for me evaluating how to make the manuscript better.

Like most writers, I'm stubborn about making changes (let's hope my editor isn't reading this). But it is very valuable to know what is being read differently than you intended. Those are the things I try to refine so that they are clearer. I also have difficulty managing timelines, and an editor is invaluable for that. The most fun, though, is when a general comment sparks off new material that I hadn't thought of before, so there is still room for new composition even in a final draft. That happened during the editing process of Lotus Eaters, and is again happening as I finish my second novel.

Lisa wrote: "If we could peek into Linh and Helen's lives today, what would we see? I'm so happy LE had the ending it did because I was afraid it would go a different way.

Also, another question(s) - Sam and l..."

Hi Lisa! I'm a firm believer in fate as far as my characters are concerned. As the author, I've sent them on an arc or journey during the novel, and I don't think beyond the book.

The ending was very difficult for me in a couple of ways. First of all, I've spent years with this character — I'm attached! But also I'm writing in a realist tradition so I've got to balance what is most likely to happen compared to what do I want to happen. On top of all that, one has to consider the novel as a whole. How much darkness can a novel hold? Where are the possibilities for hope?

The thing that stuck with me longest after reading your book, like ghostly images almost, were the interiors. Did you consciously invoke the strong sense of place via the interiors (rooms, restaurants, etc.) or are you just more at home "inside"? (The interiors were more evocative of Viet Nam than the locales to me.)

This is to answer the second part of Lisa's question. I always did know that I wanted to be a writer because I was a lifelong voracious reader, but I didn't hurry to write full-time. I've been involved in all kinds of jobs, from the theatre and script evaluation, to running an art studio with my husband, etc. etc because I wanted real life experience. During that time, I was always reading, and I also started writing and submitting short stories.

I was lucky to have many inspiring teachers, English lit college professors as well as creative writing teachers, who I studied with. I would say that the apprenticeship of a writer is a long road, and by the time you publish, many, many people have helped you along the way.

John wrote: "The thing that stuck with me longest after reading your book, like ghostly images almost, were the interiors. Did you consciously invoke the strong sense of place via the interiors (rooms, restaura..."

That's an interesting observation, John, and one I haven't heard before. When I think back on the scenes of the book, I tend to think of exteriors. I wonder if it's a case of the action slowing down and more description during those interior passages.

As an ex-pat myself I found your reflections on living in a country very different than your own, incredible. I have tried to explain some of the confusion and beauty and heartache of what such a life choice does to one's soul but it has always seemed so elusive to me. And especially when speaking of it to those who have never left home. Did you listen to your mother growing up and feel her heartache as your own? Did you write of your own imaginings? Or do you, yourself, feel that your heart/soul lives in more than one place? Love the title, by the way.

When a book like LE moves me deeply and leaves me wanting more (many times rereading immediately) but also broadens my horizons. After finishing LE, I was looking up books about photojournalists and Vietnam. That's what I love about really good books. Some for a "vacation" without leaving home, some for romance, others for adventure, other worlds/dimensions, thrills. LE covered them all - thank you Tatjana :)

I keep thinking of that photographer you mentioned who lost his legs in Afghanistan but still wants to go in harms way, on assignment... thinking Sam would've been the same way, it was as he said, "it's what I'm good at", and perhaps something left unfinished that needs completion (a need to reach the end of things - also like Sam and Helen).

Brynne wrote: "As an ex-pat myself I found your reflections on living in a country very different than your own, incredible. I have tried to explain some of the confusion and beauty and heartache of what such a l..."

Hi Brynne! You guessed all the reasons. My mother had to leave what is now Slovenia as a child and was raised in Austria. As an adult, she definitely had wanderlust, but she always took me with her. I spoke three languages at five years old. I remember feeling sorry for the children I met who had to stay in the same place all the time! So it's a lifestyle and an outlook on the world that stays with one.

Lisa wrote: "When a book like LE moves me deeply and leaves me wanting more (many times rereading immediately) but also broadens my horizons. After finishing LE, I was looking up books about photojournalists an..."

Hi Lisa! I've been keeping up with a blog, NYT Lens, and they just added a story about that photographer, Joao Silva, now taking his first steps. If you are interested, here is the original link about his story and the update:

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05...

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02...

He's an amazingly inspiring person, and his story is so much the same as it was for the photographers/journalists in Vietnam.

Thank you Tatjana for those links! I just finished reading them and had never heard of the Bang-Bang Club and so immediately added that to my wish list (and will see the movie). Reading those photojournalists' comments echoed from some of LE's pages. The part where they feel like vultures at times, when capturing the extremely difficult civilian casualties, etc. Not that they want to do it, but they have to in order to record it and have us witness it. When asked "why do you do it" (their jobs), the answer is often too complex - that many times they don't even know. But I believe that Joao Silva's comment pretty much captures it - "If you take one picture that changes one single person's mind about one specific event or topic, I think you've accomplished something". Wasn't that Sam, Helen and Linh's ultimate goal?

Lisa wrote: "Thank you Tatjana for those links! I just finished reading them and had never heard of the Bang-Bang Club and so immediately added that to my wish list (and will see the movie). Reading those photo..."

Absolutely, Lisa. One of the strangest things I've heard, when the lives of journalists are discussed, is that they are selfish people. Granted, the toll of a dangerous profession is hard for the families, but I think the job itself is pretty selfless, and even noble in many cases. We don't use the same criteria when judging other professions, such as being a soldier or a fireman, which are very hazardous jobs also.

I wanted to elaborate a bit on the earlier questions about research that I did for the Lotus Eaters. I am not by inclination a historical novel writer, most of my work is contemporary, but because I wanted to tell this particular story, I had to learn as much as I could about that world. So the year and a half of research was really about immersion. The tricky part of that is then converting that knowledge to a story. An exaggerated claim, but I joke that I then had to forget all the research in order to write the book. I would guess that I really used only 5% of the material, but I believe that it informed all of it.

This has been a really great opportunity. I'm planning to reread the Lotus Eaters - I read it a year ago. Looking forward to your next effort. Hope you come back for another chat after that.

oh, I forgot - I think you created "real art" with the Lotus Eaters. You really made your mark with this one, in my opinion.

Its true, Tatjana, when John speaks of real art. Whatever you did, there was some kind of soul intervention. I wonder if you felt it. Because I know I did. The flow? The feeling that you were creating something not so much from you, but through you? Whatever happened, you have created a true masterpiece. Humbled. Beyond words.