YA Book Council discussion

I haven't read it yet, but it's in my to-read pile. Just wanted to put a place to start conversing about it, if you read it--again, it's an unofficial selection!

Jane, was it really so horrible?! Maybe I'll skip it and read this instead: http://www.theroselabyrinth.com/

Not YA, but looks much more interesting.

Synopsis from the cover/website

Before his death in 1609, the brilliant Elizabethan spy, astrologer and mathematician John Dee hid many of his papers, believing that the world was not prepared for the ideas they held. For seventeen generations, his female descendants have held his most precious secrets, waiting for the right moment to bring them to light.

In spring 2003, Dee's many times great granddaughter, dying of cancer, was forced to pass the enigmatic legacy to one of her two sons. Diana chose her passionate, tempestuous younger boy, leaving a tiny silver key and a piece of parchment with a note: For Will, when he is something, or someone, that he is not now.

Over the long, hot summer of 2003, while seriously ill Lucy King awaits heart surgery in London, Will travels Europe seeking to decipher the clues in the ancient document, and find a lock to fit the key. It is a search that will leave him and Lucy inextricably linked, and lead into a world of extraordinary riddles and dangerous secrets.

I have the ARC! Let me know if you want to borrow.

Grr... Yes it was bad. I have to change my rating to 1 star because the more and more I think about it, the worse it gets in my mind. It's not only full of brand references that we hated from the first book, but also full of allusions to famous historical people and events that don't really cross paths in history.


These were my comments on the review:

I find it very hard to believe that Nicholas Flamel, Joan of Arc, Niccolo Machiavelli, King Arthur, John Dee, Ares (Mars), Gilgamesh, and St. Germain (or Francis Bacon) are immortals—to name a few—and all co-exist in this same world. Talk about over doing it with allusions! Even harder to believe: the characters learn swordplay, uses of elemental magic, travel from California, the World Tree, and across Paris all during the course of the story—which covers less than 4 days!


The Mary Sue complex is very evident. Roxy would hate this book. Unless Mary Sues, branding, and weird allusions doesn't bother you, than you might like it.

The Rose Labyrinth looks better. At least John Dee is actually mentioned as a mathematician. In The Magician, the author seems to like throwing allusive remarks but doesn't use the history or "clarify" the history-- as it should be done if the characters are based on real or "real" people. I've always believed that good fiction is believable. If the author is constantly loosing the reader because of their writing or wild leaps, than it's really a bad piece of work. The sad part is: Michael Scott is really a good writer. I thought there were some parts that were just really well written, but the plot kills it. I really don't recommend it, at least not to anyone in this group who I think has better taste.

I totally disagree with the negative comments on this book. I know everyone has their own tastes so they are entitled to those opinions, but I loved this book. The first in the series was good - this follow up was even better. Some of the history of Dee isn't there - because we just haven't gotten it yet.

I think one of the signs of good fiction - especially good series fiction - is the ability to hand out information about the characters over time so that we stay interested. The Magician gives us more info - and makes me eager for The Sorceress and beyond so I can learn more about the characters and what is to come. Plus, there is a GREAT forum and fansite that have helped increase my love for this book (and The Alchemyst, the first of the to be 6 part series). www.flamels-immortal-portal.com is worth checking out - the forums there too as the forums helped me discover so much more to these books because of the connection and use of mythological characters! The author frequently visits and posts on the site and has shared some additional info and little spoilers about what is next - again increasing my appetite for the rest of the series.

Then again, asking me to "believe" that those characters are immortal might be a little much - if I didn't remember that this is in the "FICTION" category. I don't need to truly believe it to enjoy it. Let's face it, I didn't believe that Dracula existed either but I won't say that Bram Stroker wrote a poor piece of fiction because I didn't believe in the blood sucking vampire.

While I will be pre-ordering the Sorceress, if you don't want to spend the money yet on this, I say at least check it out of the library and read it for yourself to decide.

Kristen wrote: "I totally disagree with the negative comments on this book. I know everyone has their own tastes so they are entitled to those opinions, but I loved this book. The first in the series was good - ..."

It's not that I think we should believe the fantastical elements of a story, but I feel that if I can't believe it as I'm reading (like say, I'm noticing how often a reference or writing style pulls me out of a story), than I'm not believing in the story. I'm not debating about fiction/nonfiction--my comments are strictly about storytelling styles. Maybe belief is the wrong word--though I can't seem to find a better fit right now (I'm really tired). It's like reading Harry Potter-- I don't believe in wands and wizards, but the story sucked me right in that at the moment I am reading, I can believe it. "Good fiction is believable" is paraphrased from my novel class professor; there are so many levels to that which I don't want to get into. I always thought the line was ironic.

Maybe it'll help to say that I'm bothered by brand dropping. The style doesn't suit me. So my tastes don't align with Scott's style. His writing's great, I don't deny that.

I may give Sorceress a try just because I rated The Alchemyst 3 stars, and I am hoping I will like it.

Thanks for posting by the way. I didn't think anyone actually read these.

Kristen wrote: "While I will be pre-ordering the Sorceress, if you don't want to spend the money yet on this, I say at least check it out of the library and read it for yourself to decide."

Oh, I'll buy it! And read, too, eventually. I'm a completionist. Once I start, I can't stop. Didn't like the last 2 Lauren Willigs, but I bought them and read them anyway. Still hoping her next one will be better.

And seriously, The Alchemyst was not as bad as The Book of Dead Days, which I had to give away or resell (I don't remember what I did) after reading it, or The Meaning of Night, which is the only book I've ever returned because I really wanted my money back.

Now that I think about it, I will probably go back and get the paperbacks for Melissa de la Cruz's Blue Bloods and Masquerade, even though she uses the same name-dropping style to "characterization" (I have to put that in quotes; seriously, give young adults some credit! not sloppy character-building...) But I'll have to borrow Revelations until the paperback comes out.

The Luxe is another one of those, should I buy it? or should I wait? kinds of books. I still haven't read Rumors because I have so many other, better books to read. Perhaps next year.

I think the only other one where I regretted buying the book was Wicked Lovely. It was... ok. But, completionist that I am, I will be picking up Ink Exchange today. Thank goodness for Employee Appreciation Days.

Oh, and I know I have gone extremely off-topic, but has anyone heard anything/formed an opinion on House of Night (the PC/JC Cast series). Wondering if I should at least get Book 1.

Kristen, I promise to post my opinion as soon as I finish reading the book, you did help to bump it up in the pile with your comment :-)

Despite how I feel about the Magician, I would probably buy Sorceress just because I own the other two in hardcover. I originally got it for the pretty cover.

Alethea, I didn't like the last 2 Lauren Willigs either, but I seem to always pick up the next one. I'm just hoping that if I enjoyed the first two, that it'll eventually get better for me. I'm pretty good about giving books a try. At least we're not giving up on it completely, or giving it low ratings just for the hell of it (I've seen people do that before, and it's really dumb-- how can you rate a book if you haven't read it?). I didn't buy Wicked Lovely, and I rated that a 1 too.

There are some books I have to re-try. Like the Pendragon series. I read the first one and was a little put out because of the stock characters and cliches, but my mentee really likes the series. And since she's read all my favorite books and liked those, Pendragon deserves another try.

I actually had the PC/JC Cast bk 1 in my Amazon cart, and then immediately took it off because I wasn't sure if it was going to be good. Maybe I'll just get the MM copy first.

I have a galley of Blue Bloods and I'm still debating whether I should read it. Since you told me about the brand dropping, it doesn't sound like I'll like it.

I *love* Melissa de la Cruz's vampire mythology. Love it, love it, love it, and if I had no conscience I'd steal it and write a much better series and make millions and live happily ever after.

But Blue Bloods had bloody awful writing. I wanted it to be better. It wasn't.

Still, the moment I wade through all my must-reads and get down to the maybe-reads, I'll continue reading the rest of the series. So too for Marked and any other vampire spinoffs. I'll read The Magician way before them.

April loves Pendragon and got them all in CL, I think. I am going to wait until the entire series is out before picking it up, if only because I don't want to have mismatched copies on my shelf like g*d* Ranger's Apprentice which just changed its dustjacket layout. Grr! And I already see it happening with Pendragon, Book 8 came out in QP a few weeks ago and it doesn't match the other 7.

What?!? Pendragon has different covers? I know I haven't read past bk 1, but I own 1-4 and 9 in CL. It's going to look exactly like my Ranger's Apprentice line up.

The CLs are the same so far--the QP line has deviated! At least, I think it has--I guess I have to double-check. But I'm pretty sure I know what the others look like, and our Bk 8 QPs seemed different to me...

I disagree with everyone who doesn't like the book. I loved it! It was kind of funny how at the beginning of the book Nicholas seemed so helpess with all the doors in the church. I guess that's what happens to you when another year is added to your age every day!

Jane wrote: "Grr... Yes it was bad. I have to change my rating to 1 star because the more and more I think about it, the worse it gets in my mind. It's not only full of brand references that we hated from the..."
Yeah, it is kind of hard 2 do all that in just 4 days, but Nicholas and Perenelle get older and older every day so Michael Scott thought it'd be a good idea to do that. I thought that doing all that in the course of 4 days was kind of off but I met Michael Scott at a book signing and he was able to explain the whole concept of the story to me. But then again, it's your opinion so oh well.

Megan wrote: "Jane wrote: "Grr... Yes it was bad. I have to change my rating to 1 star because the more and more I think about it, the worse it gets in my mind. It's not only full of brand references that we h..."

Megan - you should check out the fansite www.flamels-immortal-portal.com - there is a place for those who loved the book and the forums that are linked from there are great too - Michael Scott participates in them! He has given use some good teasers for the Sorceress coming in 2009!

I didn't like the book either. I can't really say why, but I just didn't like it. I liked the first one though.

Kristen wrote: "Megan wrote: "Jane wrote: "Grr... Yes it was bad. I have to change my rating to 1 star because the more and more I think about it, the worse it gets in my mind. It's not only full of brand refere..."

Oh yeah, I checked it out last night. It was pretty cool=)

I'm a little more than a hundred pages into this, and while I'm enjoying it for the most part, the brand references are annoying me. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me when it's mentioned here or there, but I'm not even halfway through the book and the mentions are already overwhelming me. If I have to stop and think about how awkward it feels to read about Nicholas Flamel thinking about YouTube, then it's probably going to mess with my overall enjoyment once I'm done.

I'm done. I wrote a brief (I think?) review about it. It's three in the morning and at this point I'm just glad I finished.