Science and Inquiry discussion

Time to submit your nominations for the October read. Give it some thought: check out older nominations, the group bookshelf, etc. Don't be afraid to re-nominate books that didn't make it in the past!

Nominations go in this thread, and I'll round them up into the poll. Nominatios will be accepted through August 27, and on August 28 I'll set up the poll.

Jump in!

Napoleon's Buttons: How 17 Molecules Changed History, available in several formats, not too recent, 384 pages.

The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York, various formats available, reprint published Jan 2011, 336 pages.

We haven't read any chemistry for a while.

The Man of Numbers: Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution by Keith Devlin

Blurb from Amazon: In 1202, a 32-year old Italian finished one of the most influential books of all time, which introduced modern arithmetic to Western Europe. Devised in India in the 7th and 8th centuries and brought to North Africa by Muslim traders, the Hindu-Arabic system helped transform the West into the dominant force in science, technology, and commerce, leaving behind Muslim cultures which had long known it but had failed to see its potential.

The young Italian, Leonardo of Pisa (better known today as Fibonacci), had learned the Hindu number system when he traveled to North Africa with his father, a customs agent. The book he created was Liber abbaci, the "Book of Calculation," and the revolution that followed its publication was enormous. Arithmetic made it possible for ordinary people to buy and sell goods, convert currencies, and keep accurate records of possessions more readily than ever before. Liber abbaci's publication led directly to large-scale international commerce and the scientific revolution of the Renaissance.

Yet despite the ubiquity of his discoveries, Leonardo of Pisa remains an enigma. His name is best known today in association with an exercise in Liber abbaci whose solution gives rise to a sequence of numbers--the Fibonacci sequence--used by some to predict the rise and fall of financial markets, and evident in myriad biological structures.

One of the great math popularizers of our time, Keith Devlin recreates the life and enduring legacy of an overlooked genius, and in the process makes clear how central numbers and mathematics are to our daily lives.

The Man of Numbers: Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution looks fascinating, but it was just published in July 2011. You might want to check availability before voting for it.

Betsy wrote: "The Man of Numbers: Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution looks fascinating, but it was just published in July 2011. You might want to check availability before voting for it."

I agree. It's a good idea to put the book in this thread, for newly published books that are worthwhile nominations for the future.

Just bought it yesterday, not sure when I'm going to read it. I also bought Quantum Man: Richard Feynman's Life in Science. (And the Blade Runner blu ray disc.) :)

It'll take one month waiting to receive them, though. :(

I'd suggest this book Libraries in the Ancient World - if history can be taken as science - as we're all in love for books and reading. It is also in my library queue waiting for more tranquil times.


Kathy wrote: "The Man of Numbers: Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution by Keith Devlin

Blurb from Amazon:..."

I'm going to nominate the book that I voted for last time. Earth: An Intimate History

And this one Atom: An Odyssey from the Big Bang to Life on Earth...and Beyond because I just rediscovered it on my wishlist shelf.

Earth: An Intimate History is phenomenal. I'd read it again.

Marcelo wrote: "Just bought it yesterday, not sure when I'm going to read it. I also bought Quantum Man: Richard Feynman's Life in Science. (And the Blade Runner blu ray disc.) :)

It'll take one ..."

Marcelo, your suggestion,
Libraries in the Ancient WorldLibraries in the Ancient World looks like an intriguing book. Your comment and the description of the book make it pretty clear that it's not really a science theme, however. So. . .keeping with the topics for group reads, I'll not include it in the poll for October after all.

However, don't be shy. If you want to share your review or initiate a conversation about the book with other group members , consider starting a thread about it in the General Book Discussions folder.

David wrote: "Betsy wrote: "The Man of Numbers: Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution looks fascinating, but it was just published in July 2011. You might want to check availability before voting fo..."

Kathy, don't forget to add your book to the Recent Releases - Share your Finds thread -- that way we won't forget about it. Also, please add it to the group bookshelf (or I'll be happy to do so!) We can include in it a future book of the month when readers won't have to purchase a copy, but will be able to find it at their local library.

I've closed the nominations opportunity for the October book. Four engaging books have been nominated about chemistry and the course of history, cosmological contemplations, criminals and chemistry, and the moving study of plate tectonics. (I'm in a goofy mood today!) How will you decide?

Now vote in the poll, found here. The poll will close after September 1, 2011.

And the winner is (drumroll please, David) . . . .The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York.

Very quiet poll this month. Where did everybody go?

Melissa wrote: "And the winner is (drumroll please, David) . . . .The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York. ..."

Cool. I already had this on my list to read so I voted for it. I might not get to it until november though....

Melissa wrote: "And the winner is (drumroll please, David) . . . .The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York.

Very quiet poll this month. Where did ..."

I just decided I'd be happy with either of the two front runners so I didn't bother to vote.

I absolutely loved The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York. I can't wait for the discussion. You all have selected a great book - I hope that everyone else enjoys it as much as I did. Not only is the subject matter interesting but the presentation and arrangement is very creative.

p.a. Sorry about the poor form but I can't figure out how to underline book titles :(

Kim, to add the book title as a link like everyone does, just click on "add book/author" above the comment box and search for the book.
I am glad to hear you liked The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York. I want to read it, but unfortunately it is looking like it won't be until november.

thanks for the info Julie!

I've started reading The Poisoner's Handbook: Murder and the Birth of Forensic Medicine in Jazz Age New York. It's a fast, fun book so far. Who else is reading it, or planning to read it?

I've started..

i have it but haven't started.

I read it a few months ago. I really enjoyed it.

Looks interesting, and my local library actually has a copy.

It's my next library book. Got another book to finish first.

I really enjoyed this book. It's like a lot of little murder mysteries, interlaced with chemical formulas, details of autopsy procedures, the history of prohibition, and the development of forensic medicine. None of the science was overwhelming for the non-scientist; rather it was fascinating to read about the efforts of the dedicated medical examiners and the properties of their frequent adversaries, the poisons.

I bought it but haven't started it yet. I was interested to learn that my 13 year old grandaughter read it for school last year and her teacher used it as the basis for semester-long discussions about reason and science and critical thinking. Caused quite a sensation and many arguments among her young friends.

I have started the book and am enjoying the book thus far. An excellent choice and one I think I will share with my middle school students - great idea.

I just finished the book. Here is my review. I really enjoyed this book. The thing is, I would never have thought of reading this book, if it weren't for the recommendation here, on Goodreads!

The astonishing thing to me is that elected -- read unqualified -- coroners are still the norm in many parts of the U.S. There was a TV documentary about it a few years ago. I wish I could find it.

Currently in Washington State there is a case in the news. Thirteen years ago a state trooper was found shot dead in her closet in a rural county. The coroner declared it suicide without much investigation. The woman's mother has been fighting ever since to get that verdict overturned. Finally a new coroner's inquest has been scheduled, but the original coroner still refuses to reconsider his verdict in the face of mounting evidence and expert opinion.

It's a disgraceful system.

I've read it now and found it very interesting. I was amazed at the death statistics for the prohibition years from wood alcohol. I agree with David's review (message 27). If you want to read about the start of Forensic Science in France, read The Killer of Little Shepherds.

I'm still only a few chapters in....got distracted by other stuff...will try to catchup and read more this week...

I've just started. A couple of chapters in. Fun stuff so far!

Betsy, I didn't realize this elected coroner thing was still happening. Wow, is that ever depressing.

I *think* we still elect ours here. Not exactly a high profile race in the elections so its easily forgotten. :-)

I just finished this book last night, and I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot about the history as well as the science that occured back then. My only disappointment with the book is that I would like to have seen a little more science. It seemed like it was heavy on history and light on science, and I was hoping it might be the other way around. Still, I really enjoyed reading the stories. A lot of the stories reminded me of something you might see on a TV show, but they are real. I was fascinated with all of the information that was provided about prohibition, and I finally feel like I know the difference between ethyl alcohol and methyl alcohol, and I now know what "denatured" alcohol is. I think my favorite chapter was the one on radium. I was also amazed at the level of corruption that existed in the government back then. Fun read!

Julie wrote: "I *think* we still elect ours here. Not exactly a high profile race in the elections so its easily forgotten. :-)"

I can't remember if we still elect our coroners or not.

I still miss voting for state adjutant-general. Who will command South Carolina's forces if we secede again?!?

Just in case. :)

The TV show I was remembering was a Frontline segment on PBS called "Post Mortem".

Can be seen here:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1774485437

BTW, the case I mentioned in Washington state, the coroner's inquest changed the ruling to homicide and arrest warrants are being issued for the trooper's husband.

One reason I'm very interested in this subject is the recent death of my brother -- three years ago at age 66. He was overweight and diabetic and had recently had a mild stroke. He was alone when he died. They did not perform an autopsy; we could have requested one, but we would have had to pay for it, at about $2,500. The coroner wouldn't sign the death certificate and we had to talk my brother's physician into doing that. But we don't really know absolutely why my brother died. I understand that they don't have the resources to autopsy every death, and I don't really suspect foul play, but I'd really like to know for sure.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Betsy, and I can see why you'd want to know for sure. I had never thought about that. As you said, it's not that you suspect foul play; it's just that you want to know, when it's someone that important to you.

Why wouldn't the coroner sign the certificate? Because the cause was uncertain?

I think so, yes. And we had to convince the doctor to do it even though he hadn't seen my brother in a while, so he wasn't absolutely sure of the cause. But you can't do anything without a death certificate.

That just seems...it seems like it should be the coroner's job to sign a death certificate, and if he's not comfortable doing it then it's his job to do whatever he needs to do to get comfortable.

Thus the frustration, I guess. Gah.

I've just finished the radium chapter, which includes this beautiful image of the young women who worked at the radium factory sprinkling it in their hair so they would glow. I picture them going home at night and giving their husbands a sexy little surprise, all the time unknowingly exhaling death.

Wow this sounds like a really fascinating book. I'm disappointed that through all my moving across the country I haven't been able to find the time to locate a copy. But I'm definitely adding this to my list of books to read sometime soon!

Do you have to have a cause of death on the death certificate or can you say unknown? I don't know about this stuff.

I just finished this book & I loved it. I wonder what Norris and Gettler would think of the glamorisation of forensic science in the post CSI era?

I too would have liked to see just a tad more science--just more detail about the chemical makeup and biological effects of the various poisons, but I thought the amount of history was just about right.

Those poor Radium Girls. Treated like just so much trash and no government intervention until a rich man suffers consequences.

Oh, and Norris? Having to pay for his own supplies & equipment, car & driver, and even clock to get the job done? That's just crazy.

Yeah, I felt that way too, Ibis: maybe a touch more science would have been nice.

I was hoping for some history of murder by poison as well, but aside from a few cracks at the Borgias' expense, no dice.

But as a combination Prohibition history / true crime thingy / very cursory intro to chemistry...not bad. It was entertaining, anyway.

Julie wrote: "Do you have to have a cause of death on the death certificate or can you say unknown? I don't know about this stuff."

I don't either, but the county wouldn't issue the death certificate until they had a cause of death. I don't know if that was law, or just practice.

It would logically seem that there must be situations where the cause is truly unknown.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread to get on my hobbyhorse.

I still think this was a fascinating book.

I think Blum's at time quippy and tongue-in-cheek writing style is perfect for popular science books. It is more enjoyable for me to read books written like that on a subject that in intriguing than to try to plow through much dryer, more academic writing.

Goodness, November and Iam still reading The Poisoner's Handbook - but loving it! I enjoy how Blum has intertwined stories with science. There is so much here I can share with my class. I shared the story of the Radium Girls and they were amazed and saddened. The frustrations of Norris and Gettler even make me frustrated as I read the book; more so that these types of frustrations continue today; I was not aware autopsies must be paid for. The priorities of our system seem so skewed. I wonder if this is the same in Germany - must look into that.

Charise wrote: "I was not aware autopsies must be paid for. The priorities of our system seem so skewed. "

They don't always have to be paid for, only if you request a special one, I believe. I don't know how they decide when to do a routine autopsy. I presume if it's a suspicious death they would, but who knows?

Charise wrote: "Goodness, November and Iam still reading The Poisoner's Handbook - but loving it! I enjoy how Blum has intertwined stories with science. There is so much here I can share with my class. I shared th..."

I am still reading it too and also love it. It is so interesting. Even the things that are not about forensics and poisons....like how they started making wristwatches during the war because pocket watches kept falling out of soldier's pockets.

Finished this one up last week, and enjoyed it greatly. I think I've pretty much talked most folks who see me day to day into reading it.

Betsy wrote: "Charise wrote: "I was not aware autopsies must be paid for. The priorities of our system seem so skewed. "

They don't always have to be paid for, only if you request a special one, I believe. I d..."

My mother was 80 when she just up and died without known health complaints. Because she did not have a regular physician and took no medications except eyedrops for glaucoma, there was no doctor to sign off on the death certificate. (The sheriff-coroner's office actually tried to get the ophthalmologist to sign it, to no avail), so the law required an autopsy--even though she was an older person and there was no reason to suspect foul play. We didn't want one, but we had no choice. We did not have to pay for it however. They discovered she died from a pulmonary embolus--not a bad way to go. They found her with her crossword puzzle book on her face and the TV blaring away.