Jane Austen discussion

Volume 1, chapters 1-11

Summary: Mr. Henry Dashwood dies and his estate, Norland Park in Sussex, goes to his son John from his first marriage. His widow and three daughters are left with very little money and no permanent home. John's wife Fanny arrives and John's promise at his father's deathbed to provide for his step-mother and step-sisters is forgotten. Fanny's brother Edward arrives for a visit and develops an attachment with Elinor but nothing is actually said on the subject by either party. Fanny and her mother are determined that Edward will distinguish himself and earn prestige at something - what is not known.

After six months of being treated as a visitor in her former home and enduring Fanny's rudeness and insensitivity, Mrs. Dashwood accepts a cousin's offer to move to Barton Cottage in Devonshire. They are welcomed by the cousin - Sir John Middleton, and his wife, his mother-in-law Mrs. Jennings, and Colonel Brandon. Mrs. Jennings takes great delight in matchmaking and commenting on everything.

Marianne and Margaret go for a walk and get caught in the rain. Marianne runs back toward the cottage, falls and twists her ankle. She is rescued and carried to the cottage by John Willoughby who is visiting his aunt nearby. Marianne and Willoughby begin to spend time together and find they are very similar in their views and tastes in music, books, dancing, etc. Marianne becomes very open about her affections for Willoughby and dismisses Colonel Brandon as having good sense and irreproachable character but also of being old, boring and unremarkable.

Discuss!

I'm three chapters in, and I so hate Fanny and John Dashwood! I would like nothing more than to whack them both!

Sam - I always feel that when I read the book. Somebody just needs to take Fanny out back and.... ;-)

I hate Fanny, too! She is HIDEOUS--selfish to an immeasureable degree. It actually surprises me every time I read this how anyone could be that horrible.

On a happier topic, I love the way Marianne is established immediately as the epitome of the emotional teenager!

aaah, S&S.... let me tell you why the first chapters affect me so much.
I am the only child of a second marriage. I am young. My parents are quite elderly. Since my birth I have been the soul beneficiary of their combined estate. However... one of my two older half brothers (old enough to be my parents not my siblings) is married to someone very much like Fanny. I know that one day, during the most difficult and emotional periods of my future life, I will not only have to deal with the loss of a parent, or both my parents, but have to fend off the legal challenges to their will that will come from that brother and his wife. It's not that my brother is a bad person, just a weak and self interested person married to a very strong and greedy woman who will be pushing him very hard to do the wrong thing for the sake of their family.

I think I remember now why I don't read this one very often.Even though in other ways it's completely wonderful.

At least Jane handles Fanny and John's selfishness in a humourous way.

I hate a man w/o a spine and that is what john was "spineless"

It is interesting that most of the fathers in Austen are rather weak souls or dead...

Megan wrote: "It is interesting that most of the fathers in Austen are rather weak souls or dead..."

Yes men are rather weak in the Austen's world and they have very little play. I love the way Austen both complements and criticizes women.

Marjorie wrote: "I always get angry at Henry Dashwood in these early chapters. He failed almost completely to provide for the second Mrs Dashwood and for Elinor and Marianne. Admittedly, his estate was entailed t..."

I agree almost completely. His idea of taking promise from John to look after his second family is too presumptuous, that's not a plan. If he is a good father he must know what kind of a man his son is, (obviously hen-pecked).

Then I don't think John could've said "no" even if he wanted to. Taking promises on the death bed is the silliest thing to do, of course, the person have to say yes and will say "yes" even if he/she feels other wise. It reminds me of Jane Eyre and Mrs Reed's promise at her husband's death bed.

S & S talks a lot about wealth and inheritance than any other book by J. A. It shows why Mrs. Bennet fears the death of Mr. Bennet. Unmarried daughters, although the estate was not entailed away, what happened was not so different, leaving the women without an income and a home.

Desiree wrote: "I have some passages to ask about, which I can't quite decipher. Here it is, in chapter 10:

"Their attention and wit were drawn off to his more fortunate rival; and the raillery which the other ..."

Who is it referred to? Brandon or Willoughby? The place is not clear.

I'll go back and reread in that area, Desiree. And commenting on the fathers in Austen -- mothers don't get away so easily either. We'll see more mothers in this story later, but just keep that in mind too.

Another family connection to look at in this novel is the sister relationship. I read an interesting essay talking about sisters in another of Jane's novels and that made me really starting looking at the sisters here. That should be fun to trace from now until the end of the novel.

Desiree wrote: "I have some passages to ask about, which I can't quite decipher. Here it is, in chapter 10:

"Their attention and wit were drawn off to his more fortunate rival; and the raillery which the other ..."

Yeah, Desiree, it can take a minute to decipher Austen's meaning when the passage of time has made her use of language a bit heightened to us. That passage seems to me to mean simply that the good-natured joking about Brandon's feelings for Marianne were transferred to Willoughby at the time when the Colonel's feelings were actually becoming as strong as the joking suggested. That's what I get--anyone please chime in if they feel differently!

The younger Mrs. Dashwood is even more horrid than her husband. She seals my dislike when she starts giving her husband suggestions on how well his stepmother and sisters could live off even half of what he is suggesting. Then she begrudges the elder Mrs. Dashwood for having decent furniture and dishes!

Salena wrote: "The younger Mrs. Dashwood is even more horrid than her husband. She seals my dislike when she starts giving her husband suggestions on how well his stepmother and sisters could live off even half o..."

yes, and I love when she suggests to John that his sisters would be in a position to help him out!

Marjorie wrote: ""S & S talks a lot about wealth and inheritance than any other book by J. A. It shows why Mrs. Bennet fears the death of Mr. Bennet. Unmarried daughters, although the estate was not entailed away, ..."

Marjorie, I think you are replying for my comment. Mansfield Park is focussed on money matters much more clearly than in S & S I find, irony at best in this one.

*******Spoiler Alert***********

Austen shows throughout Sense and Sensibility just how much inheritance influences the marriage market. To characters like Mrs. Ferrars and John Dashwood there is only one criterion for choice: money. Willoughby later had to marrying a woman of fortune to re-establish himself, Marianne would be perfect for Colonel Brandon, "for he was rich and she was handsome" and Mrs. Dashwood is obviously aware of money secretly to congratulate herself on having gained of having rich sons‑in‑laws etc. I was getting at that.

Doesn't anyone else think that Sir John Middleton is a foil for John Dashwood with a note of emphasize by giving both characters the same first name?

Mrs. Dashwood's nearer connections (John Dashwood) eager to remove her soon from Norland while Sir John, a rather distant relation writes with true spirit of friendly accommodation. The reception at Barton Park contrast to the treatment they have received from John and Fanny. We see John Dashwood had limited the performance of his promise to his father but they are being performed by Sir John Middleton freely and with great enjoyment.

Marjorie wrote: "I always get angry at Henry Dashwood in these early chapters. He failed almost completely to provide for the second Mrs Dashwood and for Elinor and Marianne. Admittedly, his estate was entailed t..."

Mr. Dashwood dies about a year after he takes possession of the estate, so he would have had only a year's income, and unfortunately, the terms of the inheritance prohibit him from selling off any of the land or timber. However, it is true that in the course of a twenty year marriage (Elinor is 19, so 20 seems reasonable) he should have been putting something aside. He is one of the many neglectful fathers in Austen.

Did Henry Dashwood actually have much money of his own? I don't think he had much. Admittedly, he could've put something away, but he probably thought that he would inherit Norland, and could pass it to his daughters, and therefore didn't need to save. I also think he was like his wife, and wasn't really good at saving.

The person I don't like is the rich old uncle who owns Norland at the beginning. He make sure that Norland goes to John Dashwood's son, just because of "an imperfect articulation, an earnest desire of having his own way, many cunning tricks, and a great deal of noise". I think that kid sounds like a brat. The old uncle ignores the nieces that have treated him well for years, and gives everything to the a little kid, just because he's spoilt!