Jane Austen discussion

Col. Christopher Brandon

There was more than meets the eye with this character. Everything that motivated him was in the background of the story and happened long before he met the Dashwoods. He fell in love with a young girl who married his brother. She became acquainted with the world and somehow was thrown out, She had a little girl whom He took as a ward. His love died tragically. He saw in the young Marianne, this other girl. Eliza, I just remembered her name!!! I think he projected onto Marianne those qualities that Eliza had. He was smitten by her and her young passions. And she made fun of him for being old. To a 17 year old, 40something is old. His true colors came out when he escorted the girls from London, when Marianne became ill, he went for the mother, he also offered Edward the living when he was disinherited, he allowed Marianne to love Willoughby although he knew he was a scoundral who had made his ward pregnant and left her. He wanted to believe that he would do the honorable thing by Marianne although he knew his true nature. He was patient and was rewarded in the end by receiving Marianne hand in marriage. She saw him for who he was and not his age. She saw his strength of character. I beleive he was good to her after they were married and she never wanted for anything. He probably schooled her sensibilities into somewhat more managable focused passions instead of blind ones.

Denisa wrote: "There was more than meets the eye with this character. Everything that motivated him was in the background of the story and happened long before he met the Dashwoods. He fell in love with a young g..."

Col Brandon (I think) was in his late 30s, not 40s. She was near the age of Mrs. Dashwood.

I'm sorry, but all I ever think of when I think Col. Brandon is Alan Rickman!

Emma wrote: "Denisa wrote: "There was more than meets the eye with this character. Everything that motivated him was in the background of the story and happened long before he met the Dashwoods. He fell in love..."

Yes, Col. Brandon is 36 and Mrs. Dashwood is early-40s.

I think the Colonel is one of Austen's best heroes. Mature and patient, he also recognizes that the warmth and passion that Marianne takes to too strong a level sometimes is actually a good trait for a person to have.

So what's not to like about Alan Rickman? :)

I agree w/Denisa. I think Colonel Brandon is one of the most underestimated men in English literature. I've read so many articles that moan: how could Marianne possibly choose him?

Why not? He's a deep man, holds to his principles, acts on them, observes carefully, cares about everyone's feelings....I'd choose him!

Shelley
Rain: A Dust Bowl Poetry
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com

I completely agree. He's one of my favorite Austen men. Maybe critics think they aren't a good match but I disagree. He certainly has passion he just doesn't show it the way Willoughby does, but he's a scoundrel.

He is sweet, caring, patient, loves deeply, and is principled but not sanctimonious (and since I also only picture him as Alan Rickman I'll add that he's good-looking!)

He actually reminds me A LOT of Darcy after his character transformation. IF Elizabeth were sick, I can imagine Darcy waiting patiently by Elizabeth's bedside or rushing off to help in any way he could. He, like Colonel Brandon, has a great sense of responsibility and cares deeply.

Sam wrote: "I'm sorry, but all I ever think of when I think Col. Brandon is Alan Rickman!"

how true, its as if Austen wrote it keeping Rickman in mind.

I have been off on another adventure lately, but still reading along and maybe back to comment more now. I have to say that reading S&S this time, the characters are just becoming more defined that ever for me. I have been thinking more about the contrast between Brandon and Willoughby.

I know that it is basic stuff in literature to contrast the two rivals for affection, but am I just imagining that Austen does this so much better than most? We really get a personal look at what Brandon has been through in his life through a fascinating personal conversation with Elinor. So personal that he even speaks of the rumor that he fathered a child. I am just captivated by this, because so much of the plot and the feeling of the story is based on things that are revealed to Elinor. And Austen does so well in building these male characters.

I think back to Darcy's letter to Elizabeth and the same honesty is there also, but they were the main couple of the story. Between Elinor and Brandon is simply this honest, growing friendship. I really like what Austen created there.

Oh, Desiree, you mean Brandon and Elinor? Yes, I know what you mean, but then it is interesting that Austen explored the irony of which couples really do get together. Of course, that was done in other of her novels also, but done very finely in S&S, I think.

Yes, Brandon probably found deeper qualities in Marianne and she learned to appreciate his loyalty and fair approach to life. And I got the feeling he started out as a confused, maybe not-so-responsible person when young, but learned a lot from what life dealt him. I wondered if that is why Austen portrayed him as a younger son who, through the death of an older brother, had to take over. I think that is a very real part of life -- we wind up with responsibility sometimes that we never dreamed of having and we have to face it head on.

Colonel Brandon is drool worthy :P
I was upset with Marianne she didn't take so much notice of him and was foolish. But she learnt her lesson and found her true love. He was a right match for her as he sensible and Marianne was a bit reckless. She needed someone like that for her. I love Charity Wakefield's portrayal of her!

I agree that Brandon's a great character - you can't help but admire someone with principles, and what's more he actually sticks to them. But, for some reason, I couldn't help feeling that he loved Marianne only because he previously loved Eliza. As in his affections for her only came into existence because he was reminded of Eliza, and I feel he doesn't actually love Marianne for herself.
Dd anyone else feel that the development of Marianne's affections towards was a bit too speedy? I'm a huge Austen fan, but to me, the description of Marianne 'seeing the light' and begin to nurse feelings for the Colonel seemed a bit...dry.

Colonel Brandon is, I think, largely misunderstood. I've just finished reading his diary by Amanda Grange. She did a really good job at portraying his emotions and thoughts. Alan Rickman's performance did a lot to bring my over to Col. B.'s side though. :)

I think Colonel Brandon started by loving Marianne for her resemblance to Eliza, but grew to loving her for herself.

I guess that's true, Larissa. It's just that a lot of the circumstances between Marianne and Eliza are really similar so it's kind of hard to disentangle them.
It's hard not to like Brandon, though, especially as he was the underdog for most of the novel.

I love Colonel Brandon for his consistency - who can't help but feel for unrequited love (well, I can't!). I think its OK for him to love Marianne at first for her resemblance to Eliza, I think people have a 'type.'

Marianne thinks she knows her type but learns that type isn't so good.

I love Brandon, i prefer him to Ferrars!! i think he may begin liking Marianne because of Eliza, however i think he soon loves her for who she is. I think he is a really deep character and i really feel sorry for him. He is in some ways like Darcy, in regards to his connection to Willouby. I think that he is such a sweet yet gentalmenly character. Ans i feel so sorry for him when Willouby comes along and Brandon becomes invisible to Marianne. Brandon just shows that consistancy and patience pays off :)

To be honest, I never really liked Brandon that much. He doesn't have any spark or appeal, in my opinion. Of course, the story about losing Eliza was awful, and really gives him depth, but other than that, I really have a hard time imagining someone as fiesty as Marianne be truly happy with him. I always kind of wished that Willoughby repented his sins or something, because I truly think that they were a sweeter couple :)

Leonora, I couldn't disagree with you more strangely enough. Interesting to have another point of view though :) You wanted Willoughby back? The 'baddy' or as i say 'the Wickham' is the story to stay with Marinanne!! For me. I would say what you said about Brandon but for Ferrars, I found him a fairly simple and not that interesting a character. What is your opinion on Ferrars?
It's really interesting for me to see how different people interpret different characters :) helps me explore their characters more :)

Ferrars I found dull as well :) Completley spineless and not that interesting, as you said.
The funny thing is that I really like the plot in S&S, and all the humor, and I LOVE Elinor and Marianne, but I really don't like their love interests!
I am sure that Brandon is a lovely person,but as a husband for Marianne? No, I don't see that being a very happy marriage. Marianne didn't seem to like him until she finally realized that Willoughby wasn't all that into her, and Brandon only seemed to like Marianne because she reminded him of Eliza. Willoughby, on the other hand, truly loved Marianne and made her happy, and would have married her if it wasn't for his past mistakes. I would have loved it if Willoughby became some kind of reformed anti-hero. :)

- I also love how people have such different perceptions! It makes me view the whole book in a different light. :)

^ I agree with you about Ferrars - I didn't find him that interesting at all. He seemed a bit dry and his relationship with Elinor seemed much more like something based on a good, strong friendship than any kind of thrilling romance (which isn't wrong at all, of course). But there was just nothing about him that made me want to get faster to the pages with him in it (like I do with Wentworth, Darcy and Knightley).

Leonora, I think Brandon is quite serious in comparison to Marianne; and Marianne & Willoughby seem like a more exciting couple, but I think if she'd ended up with him they would've disintegrated pretty quickly. They're both too reckless - Brandon balances out Marianne in that respect, I think.

LadyDistain I agree! I think it wouldn't have lasted long and my opinion Brandon liked Marianne cause of her similarity to Eliza to begin with but I think that he grew to love her for who she was. And Willoughby said himself that he started out just for fun with Marianne but yes did grow to love her in the end, against his will. But can't forgive him for letting money overpower him so he wouldn't follow his heart!!
yes, Ferrars is nothing special for me but I do like Brandon - he for me represents the importance of patience :)
But i don't hate any of the Austen men/Heros , but Ferrars is nearer the bottom of my list.

But I will say it would have been interesting and different to have a reformed baddie turn Ito the romantic hero however, this I think would have been possible if there wasn't the whole thing with Brandon's ward and abandoning his own son. If that didn't happen, then I could see your point and would have been interested to see how it turned out :) xx

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion but I just feel I wanna defend Brandon a bit - bless him .... ;)

It WOULD have been interesting to see a baddie reform, but I got the feeling that by having Willoughby seduce a young girl and abandon her Austen was deeming him as being truly heartless. And therefore she couldn't really reward by giving him a life with Marianne.

However, for me, I think out of all of Austen's baddies Henry Crawford had the highest chance of reforming if he'd ended up with Fanny. His last scandal didn't really strike me as being only his fault as Maria was a married woman by then, and obviously knew society's rules in regards to that. I think they were both 'seducer' and 'seducee'.

However, this thread is about Brandon ;) He really is the true romantic in the novel, having loved one woman for so long and then having to put up with the fact that his new love was hanging after the wrong man. I think the passion and vivacity for life that's so obvious in Marianne is better hidden in Brandon, and she, lucky girl, will get to find that out :P

My sentiment exactly!!
Brandon does seem really Romantic at heart and one of the times I feel most sorry for him is when he sees Marianne in bed when she is Ill and it reminds him of how Eliza looked before she died, and I'm sure he couldn't help thinking that he was going to lose the 2nd love of his life!!! :'(

I do see your points about the love between Willoughby and Marianne disintegrating, as they were both very spirited people.
Brandon no doubt loved Marianne and took good care of her, but I just think that she would be slightly bored by him. The whole romance between those two just happened so quickly, and for me it always seemed as though Marianne simply was settling for Brandon, now that Willoughby was gone. :)
I agree about Henry Crawford. I think that he really loved Fanny at one point, and could have been reformed, if it were not for Maria :)

"The whole romance between those two just happened so quickly, and for me it always seemed as though Marianne simply was settling for Brandon, now that Willoughby was gone. :)"
I see your point, but i just like Brandon i think ;)

@ Leonora: Yes, I've always thought the same way! That their romance happened too quickly. But I kind of scratch that up to the fact that Austen just wrote that too quickly without developing it well. I felt it was kind of rushed, sadly =\ If Austen'd had taken her time with it then their romance could've been just as brilliant. But I can see how they would make a good couple. The S&S version with Charity Wakefield as Marianne KIND of develops their romance in way that the Kate Winslet version doesn't.

@ Soph: Haha, no problem with that, in my opinion ;) Have you seen the newer version by any chance? I love Alan Rickman, but the guy in the newer verison ( don't know his name :S) is quite hot :P

Oh LadyDisdain indeed I have ;)
Yes he is rather hot isn't he !? <3 'swoon swoon'
and I think overall I prefer it because tbh I don't like Hugh grant as he was still just like himself and it doesn't fit an Austen and also it is longer so includes more and it does include more about Marianne and Brandon at the end with the scenes at his house and the scene when she is talking so Elinor about how she loves him <3 so even though I like Rickman being Romantic for a change, overall I prefer the new one. What is your own opinion? Which do you prefer? Xx :)

Same, I prefer the newer one, too. I love Rickman and Emma Thompson (not to mention Hugh Laurie as Mr. Palmer - perfect!!) but, as you say, the newer one is longer so they included a lot more.
I despised Hugh Grant as Edward - he actually made me dislike Edward even more. He was always stuttering and it looked like he didn't have ANY confidence :( But the newere one Edward is SO much better (it's the Dan guy form Downton Abbey, right?, he's playful and engaging and you can really see his sorrow and despair at having to deceive Elinor & her family. I also love that conversation with him and Elinor at Mrs. Jenning's apartment in London, when they kind of acknowledge what he's done, and their love for each but it's beneath the surface. SO perfectly and so subtlely done!

Yes Dan who plays Matthew :)
Yes I agree soo much!!! Thats why I don't watch that version much - Hugh grant!! He wasn't right and was just way to shy and just wrong!
The new one makes me dislike Edward more and I really quite like him in the new one :)

You will always find a Hugh Grant fan in the mix though -- like me! haha I think he and Emma Thompson have some great scenes together during the section of the movie when their relationship is developing. I think he is a beautiful actor.

I think Soph mentioned a few points earlier -- Sense & Sensi, the story - not either newer screenplay necessarily -- is a story that allows a lot of interpretation -- we don't know a lot of the men in this story. The two main male leads are away from the story a lot in this novel, including Edward. The story is about them, but they are not IN it in each chapter. That is what makes it more fascinating to me. We, as readers, can decide for ourselves what to make of Brandon, Willoughby, and Edward. Although Brandon actually appears the most, reveals himself to us (through the Elinor conversations), and almost becomes a part of the family in an emotionally supportive sense way before the end. Any thoughts on this?

(In other Jane novels, Pride & Prejudice, Emma, Persuasion, the men are much more in our presence, and although maintain mysterious, we still know them more.)

SarahC wrote - 'Although Brandon actually appears the most, reveals himself to us (through the Elinor conversations), and almost becomes a part of the family in an emotionally supportive sense way before the end. Any thoughts on this?'
I totally agree and i think that his sort of becoming part of the family or at least very close to Elinor and Mrs. Dashwood helps to make up for the very quick end which the novel has when Marianne begins to like Branon - finally ;) and i love how we learn about Brandon through his story and through others, not through himself - which i think is much better :)

and yes Hugh Grant is an amazing actor but i find not quite right for Edward Ferrars but there were some good scenes, i'll give you that :)

Fair enough, Soph! haha And I guess I will need to go back for research purposes and watch Dan Stevens again in the more recent S&S version, so I can do more comparisons (now that we are all post-Matthew Crawley! haha) It is a tough effort, but I will do it.

SO due to your Hugh Grant love, i suppose you prefer the 1996 version?
Personally i prefer the 2008 version ;)

I know, actually, not Hugh, God bless him, it is actually due to my eternal devotion to Emma Thompson that pulls me back to 1996 e. every time! I think she is genius,-- and look at the cast supporting her: Gemma Jones (also a great favorite), Alan Rickman, Harriet Walter, Hugh Laurie, Greg Wise, Imelda Staunton. It is more of a tonic than a movie really, isn't it?

As I said earlier, though, I don't mind watching all of them again, in order to do more comparative research! haha

Have you ever seen the 1970s, Joanna David version?

'Have you ever seen the 1970s, Joanna David version?'
No i haven't. i have only seen the 2008 latest version and the 1996. Is is good? its the bbc one right? :)

SarahC wrote: "I know, actually, not Hugh, God bless him, it is actually due to my eternal devotion to Emma Thompson that pulls me back to 1996 e. every time! "

I know what you mean. Emma Thompson rocks my wooly socks and she's a brilliant Elinor for me. It is such a great cast. Also it was a stroke of genius casting Laurie as Mr. Palmer. Now I have a really strong urge to see the movie and I don't even own it :|

What - you don't own it!!! well your comment ' rocks my wooly socks' makes up for it ;)