Editio Self-Publishing discussion

Here is our latest article about what the stigma attached to being a self-published author. We would love to hear your experiences.
http://editioselfpublishing.com/the-s...

I enjoyed reading this article and I think that what you say at the end is spot on, that self-publishing has only just begun and that in ten years time, it will have transformed the publishing industry. I'm experiencing modest sales but I'm glad that I'm at the beginning. From small acorns and all that!

I think that the publishing industry is going to be transformed by the self-publishing e-book.

I'm looking forward to seeing the end of the blanket assumption that all self-published books are bad. If they actually read the books themselves and made an individual decision on each one, they wouldn't have to make such assumptions. As it is, they just take a publisher's word for it that their books are good, and I guess they also take publishers' in general word for it that all self-published books are bad. Which is silly, because there is already a lot evidence against.

Yes. Exhausting!

HAHAHAHAHA Have you seen the recent blog posts on the subject? Chuck Wendig's over at Terrible Minds was excellent, I thought :D

You guys think retail store managers read?? You may be asking a lot. ;) (just kidding!)

Hmmm, yes, Deb. I've gotten that. A "real" book is paper with a trad publisher logo on it. I may have to do at least one book that way to get into that august group. Maybe the next one. Haven't tried the trad route yet.

D.L. wrote: "Hmmm, yes, Deb. I've gotten that. A "real" book is paper with a trad publisher logo on it. I may have to do at least one book that way to get into that august group. Maybe the next one. Haven't tri..."

I have to confess- I have a friend with a small publishing business. He publishes his own works (translations of French works on the Napoleonic Wars), and well I bought him lunch in trade for an ISBN. So I have a "real" logo on my book. Does this mean that you all are going to throw me out of the self-published club?

Nah, you can stay. Mine have ISBNs too. Smashwords gives them to you for free. What mine don't have is the logo for Daw, or Tor, or Pyr, or Penguin . . .

D.L. wrote: "Nah, you can stay. Mine have ISBNs too. Smashwords gives them to you for free. What mine don't have is the logo for Daw, or Tor, or Pyr, or Penguin . . ."

I have his Napoleonic Eagle thing. It actually looks pretty good. No one has called me on it yet.
:)

Hah! Good idea. I need to invent a publisher logo and put that name in on my "published by" line too. :-)

Your publisher page should look as professional as possible. If you don't have a company, form one. Then use your company name as the publisher.

Also if you are not sure what your front matter should look like, study a number of books and then read the Chicago Manual of Style (CMOS) for more information. The CMOS is one of the major standard most publishing houses follow.

I have found a lot of good information in it.

Thanks, Tony. I followed the Smashwords guide for front matter in order to qualify my first books for their premium catalog. I'll check CMOS and look into how to form a publishing company.

After I self-published several books, since I had a review/interview site anyway, and an idea to help other authors who wished to go the indie route, I formed Flying With Red Haircrow, the title of my "label" and use it when publishing now.

One of the issues I've found is that some people don't respect or acknowledge that fact as they do some others. For example, in reviewing, by majority I take indie books. A number of the authors self-pub but have created their brand as publisher, i.e. Janey Jones by John Smith, published by MacGormich and Company (John Smith's label). I agree with this, as Tony suggested above.

But when people just browse through, or ask me about the review, they say, never heard of that company before but--. They think of it as a traditional publisher first, not a self-published work, so they are positive until they learn its indie. Sometimes its humorous...up to a point.

I've submitted my work for review, set up promos, etc. and despite having the publisher listed correctly, Flying With Red Haircrow, I've had to repeatedly go back and ask the website, or individual to remove "Self-published by Red Haircrow", and actually place the correct publisher title. I found that really strange, for when I asked them about it, one said, they just assumed it was a front so changed it to what THEY thought it should say.

On my review and promo sites, I place the information as the author submitted it. I wouldn't make assumptions in the first place, but I would especially never think to change someone's information to suit myself.

The stereotypes that still persist, make me work harder to produce the cleanest, best work possible, whether its for myself or a client. I used to review for a couple of well-known sites who had large influxes of "traditional" published works, some of them had as many errors as some of the indie works I've reviewed, but of course, they don't get the same knocks or discrimination.

Self-published works have to be ten times better than the average traditionally published work in order to avoid this. I have VERY rarely read a traditionally published book that didn't have at least one or two errors, but self-published books with one or two errors are villified and held up as proof that all self-published books are hopelessly bad. As you say, all we can do as writers is produce the best, cleanest work possible.

Which is the main reason why I'm probably going to put off my publication date to give me enough time to get the book to the highest possible standard.

Mhairi, this is so true. I recently read a book by literary agent Donald Maass that had a lot of errors - Yes! A book by a top literary agent had errors. And it was published by Writer's Digest Books. *gasp*
It is very hard to edit your own stuff. I know this first hand. But if you don't rush to publish and go over your work fresh in its final format, it can be just as error free as the trad stuff.
The problem is that many of us indie writers are so anxious to see our books published and we are so confident we caught all the typos the first 20 or so times we went through it that we don't wait. When someone buys these books and sees these errors, it leads them to the presumption that all self published books are inadequately edited.
I did a blog post on this subject not long ago. It's here if you want to look at it. http://dlmorrese.wordpress.com/2011/0...

I am actually completely incapable of editing my own work. This might get better as I gain more experience in writing in general, but with this book I knew it could be better, just couldn't see how to make it better. Then I got a couple of new critiquers and, boy, where they happy to point out the areas that could do with improvment!!

Just reading your blog post - "malicious typo fairies" - HAHAHAHAHA!!! So true!!!

They are a sneaky bunch. I've looked all over and can't find any typo fairy repellant but if I ever see one trying to sneak into my computer, it's going to be a very flat fairy.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Typo fairy: Tee hee hee!!! *tiptoes towards computer*

D.L.: A-HA!!!

Typo fairy: AAAAGGHH!!!

*splat*

D.L.: I've met Donald Maass so your observations about his book are very funny.

I once read a really good book, Traders, Guns & Money, published by FT Prentice Hall, that was so full of grammatical errors that it was distracting. I actually emailed the editors, something I had never done before. And if I read "If Harry was a wizard" one more time in the Harry Potter books, I'll go postal.

I'm afraid self-publishing is like being a woman in a man's world: you have to work twice as hard to be deemed half as good.

Michelle
Baby Jane
The Global Indie Author: How anyone can self-publish in the U.S. and worldwide markets

shoppers on Amazon by and large do not scroll down to find the imprint; having one, as already noted above, is not the entry into legitimacy. The complaining is coming from other authors, agents, and others associated with Trad publishing, and even some Indies. People buy the brand or buy cheap. You have to be pretty loyal to the brand to spend over 4.99 on an eBook, so the more quality that is out there and priced right will start to raise the overall image. Those crying the loudest are those in the middle finding they are becoming irrelevant middlemen.

Thought you all might be interested in this article from BBC News:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16...

"Now, I think of a self-published author as an entrepreneur, an energetic soul determined to forge her or his own destiny in the cultural world."

Michelle

M.A. wrote: "D.L.: I've met Donald Maass so your observations about his book are very funny.

I once read a really good book, Traders, Guns & Money, published by FT Prentice Hall, that was so full of grammatica..."
To be fair, many (but far from all) of the typos in the book by Maass were in extracts from other books, so the proofreader may have skipped over them. Now that I finally have a better idea about how to edit (I made myself a checklist and it seems to help), I've noticed that although traditionally published books are normally short on typos, they are inconsistent in poor punctuation, grammar, and prose.

Editio wrote: "Here is our latest article about what the stigma attached to being a self-published author. We would love to hear your experiences.
http://editioselfpublishing.com/the-s..."

I can't get to your website with this link...
it goes to GODADDY.com...?

D.L. - would you be willing to share your checklist?

I haven't published, self or otherwise, yet, but am working on it. Been considering self-publishing. And I agree with all that has been said! ;)

Sure, Johanne - although it's more of a reminder about "rules" and things to watch for. Let me know if you'd like to have it and I'll send a .doc file.

Thanks! I would. It'd give me a starting point :)

I'm a bit new to Goodreads, is there a way to send you a private message with my e-mail?

Johanne wrote: "Thanks! I would. It'd give me a starting point :)

I'm a bit new to Goodreads, is there a way to send you a private message with my e-mail?"
I'm not sure. Maybe I'll just attach it to a blog post as a PDF file. That way anyone who wants to see it can get it.

Johanne, I included my editing checklist in a blog post this morning. You can find it here if you would like to see it.
http://dlmorrese.wordpress.com/2012/0...

D.L. wrote: "Johanne, I included my editing checklist in a blog post this morning. You can find it here if you would like to see it.
http://dlmorrese.wordpress.com/2012/0......"

Great checklist. It will be very helpful. Thanks.

There are so many traditionally published works out there with glaring errors in them. One thing that has baffled me is how those errors can persist in 3rd,4th,9th etc.. reprintings. They can go and change perfectly good covers to draw new attention, but fail to fix what really matters.

I know with my work that I read it through a half dozen times and find nothing wrong with it. So I set the work aside for a month or two before even looking at it again. Somewhere along the way a few typo imps attack it (It isn't the fairies) and I can find a whole lot of mistakes.
I would welcome the chance to bounce a story back and forth with an editor, but so far I have only found ones that want well over a thousand for each time they read a story.

I'm so new that I haven't experienced any of the prejudices...yet. I have two family members who read through my work and help me edit, but I'm sure they've missed things. So far, my biggest problem is advertising, lol. Can't afford much of anything, so I'm sticking with my blog and hoping it'll grow.

I think one of the ways to help people get over a prejudice against indie publishing is to hire editors, professional cover artists, etc. It's expensive, but in my experience, it produces a better final product, both the one you're working on and future products. (I've learned, and will continue to learn, a great deal from my editor.)

Mhairi wrote: "I'm looking forward to seeing the end of the blanket assumption that all self-published books are bad. If they actually read the books themselves and made an individual decision on each one, they w..."

I'm feeling the stigma a bit lately, and my thoughts have been exactly Mhairi's here: at least judge us on our individual cases. It hurts a little to hear the blanket statements. It shouldn't, as I know better and I have faith in the future, and independent publishing, indisputably, is on the up and up. Still, I wrote in this thread because the stigma is alive and well.

And yes, to me, the vast majority of what's trad-published and on the shop shelves is crap, so the assumptions feel unfair.

I've just published my novel (Until Proven: A Mystery in 2 Parts) and have learned so much. I'm thinking of a list of what I had known 3 months ago! Nothing would have been different except my expectations and therefore frustration levels.

I have done a lot of reading about marketing and self-promotion. Three things: word of mouth, word of mouth, word of mouth.

Deb wrote: "I am a member of a book club and a self published author. All of my fellow club members know of my book. A few have even read it. In March, we are reading a book written by one of the member's frie..."
Deb, good for you! The thing is, most of these people have no idea what it takes to write a book. Part of that condescension comes from jealousy or someplace akin.
Take heart. Indie publishing is gaining a reputation.

Hello everyone. I'm very thankful for the opportunity of being able to publish all of my books. I have self published my photography books and all of the others. I have about 18 titles available all of which I self published.

If it wasn't for self publishing I don't think that I would be able to share my photography work with anyone. I'm very thankful for everything.

I'm always on a new project and I need to share it with the world. I enjoy it. :-)

The stigma is lessening though. More indie books are selling well and garnering good reviews. Indie authors can use a price advantage to encourage people to take a chance on a new author.

Hi, having read most of these comments...Sounds absolutely frightening. I wanted to self-publish, but have thrown out the idea of it..Did not realise the stigma attached to this self publishing marlarky....Me thinks, I may have to review the idea with careful trepidation....Thanks for the heads up though..Food for thought :-)

Petula -- don't be discouraged. It's true I wrote in this thread, in a discouraged moment myself... but even since that date I have seen the stigma lessen and seen support given to independents, just where I had felt the sting. I'm indie and proud. And happy.

This is encouraging to read. I hope to be published this year. I am a new writer and the malaise of contrary views is alarming, yet a reality for most indies...I am hoping that my experience ( depending on what I decide to do) Will be a positive one, as you suggest. If the tide is for turning. Lets hope it is turning, on the right side of a better outlook....thanks for the response.......

Petula wrote: "This is encouraging to read. I hope to be published this year. I am a new writer and the malaise of contrary views is alarming, yet a reality for most indies...I am hoping that my experience ( depe..."

Be encouraged! :) I saw a forum thread on KDP about an indie writer who got five hundred reviews, and has even been approached for a movie deal. It is possible to succeed. It's lots of hard work, but if you want it, go for it, yes?

Thanks LY...I appreciate some positive back up...lol.

IMO, indie publishing is a possible avenue for writers. I think the stigma portion will disappear as ereaders become more popular and more indie published books become financially successful. I have read that more agents are watching indie published books looking for clients, but I have no idea to what extent that is true.

Bryn wrote: "Petula -- don't be discouraged. It's true I wrote in this thread, in a discouraged moment myself... but even since that date I have seen the stigma lessen and seen support given to independents, ju..."

For a refreshingly positive take on self-publishing, check out Guy Kawasaki's premise behind his latest book. He refers to self-published authors as "artisanal". Here's a link: http://apethebook.com/

Petula wrote: "Hi, having read most of these comments...Sounds absolutely frightening. I wanted to self-publish, but have thrown out the idea of it..Did not realise the stigma attached to this self publishing mar..."

Don't let yourself be discouraged. There are just as many people who think self-publishing is the only way to go as there are people who are against it.

Self-publishing is DIY - you do it all yourself. This can be frightening the first time out. However, it gets easier as you practice.

The one thing to remember is that you keep all the money you make. It isn't split with anyone. You hire the people you need (editors, copy editor, cover artist) for a flat fee.

Building a name for yourself takes a lot of time - even when your published through a traditional channel, it's going to take a lot of work on your part. (To my mind, if I have to do the work, I want paid for it.)

These days there are a lot of 'gotcha' clauses in traditional contracts. The average agent is an editor, not a lawyer. So you should take any contracts (even the one for an agent) to a lawyer so they can translate the often misleading language.

As a DIY author - I've found the Amazon and Smashwords contracts are written in plain English. They pay much better royalty rates (50% to 70%) than a trade publisher (10% to 15%).

So there are some very powerful ($) pros to balance out with the cons, which appear to be mostly social acclaim.

It all depends on what you want - everyone is different. There is no one way.

It seems to me, from hangin out on Kindleboards - that most writers self-publish their first few books. Then when they have built a brand, the publishing companies come calling.

What I've found with my own books - I invested in the first one. It paid for itself and second book. Now those two are paying to publish the third.

Find what will work for you.

J.P. wrote: "For a refreshingly positive take on self-publishing, check out Guy Kawasaki's premise behind his latest book. He refers to self-published authors as "artisanal"...."

Followed your link, J.P. Bit big and glossy but I'll glance through. -- I don't identify as an 'entrepreneur' but I do identify as an artisan. Artisan is a groovy way to think about it.

I'd never be other than indie. I hand-craft my books. They are straight from the creator to you.

For me, trad-publishing used to be a necessary evil -- I never thought otherwise about it. It's necessary no more.

"I think one of the ways to help people get over a prejudice against indie publishing is to hire editors, professional cover artists, etc. It's expensive, but in my experience, it produces a better final product, both the one you're working on and future products. (I've learned, and will continue to learn, a great deal from my editor.)" [Kevin]

Absolutely - create something that is better than a traditionally published bargain book! It is almost like treating yourself too, learning more about the craft from an editor, and getting a lovely work of art that represents YOUR book.

Mark Coker at Smashwords writes some encouraging articles for self publishers, e.g. http://blog.smashwords.com/2013/02/sm...

Oh, and polish, polish, polish!
http://karldrinkwater.blogspot.com/20...

D.L. wrote: "Johanne, I included my editing checklist in a blog post this morning. You can find it here if you would like to see it.
http://dlmorrese.wordpress.com/2012/0......"

Quite a while since this post, but I wanted to let you know that I visited your blog, found your post, and think the checklist will be an excellent tool. Thank you for sharing it.

When I began to self publish my work I published my first book. Then I published my second book on my photography work. I haven't stop ever since. Once you publish one work the others follow. Since I became an author/photographer I learned to not listen to criticism. I came to the realization that when I started publishing my work it was because I wanted to. Self publishing for me is very personal. I have a few stories to tell. My photography is another art that I want to share with the world. I never thought of if anyone would like my work or not. I thought at the beginning of every book that this is going to be read and looked at by everyone all over the world. For me to share my work with the world means everything. I'm always looking forward to another book. Coming to some of these forums bursts that joy that I had at the beginning of every book. I try not to come to some of the forums due to the fighting that goes on about who is good and who is bad. I have chosen to enjoy my work after all I'm the author/photographer. I did build myself up from doubt to success. I hope that these forums would have more inspiring stories about the joy of writing instead of the if you're not doing something that everyone else is your work is not worth anything. I like the thought of being in the dark and looking into a window where there will be many reading my work not because it's good or bad, but because of the joy of reading all together. I will also like to see the day when someone will get my photography books just, because they love the photographs on it and not, because of the photoshop enhanced colors to them. I will like to live my life without constantly editing every step I take or every pebble that is in front of every step. I want to be free of all the spits that people throw at me with their lips. This is why I self publish my work, because I don't have to fear of ever being put down by anyone, because in their eyes I'm not perfect enough. My mind will never be as advanced as others, but at least I'm doing something very productive and maybe inspiring someone out there. This is me. :-)