Outlander Series discussion

I think this book is the one that really launched this into a series.

Outlander can be read and then never move on, it has a complete ending. But Dragonfly really launched the full Jamie and Claire Saga. For that it's up there as one of my favorites.

I read that DG always maintained that all the books could be stand alone reads, but I think reading all of them in the series makes a much better read.
I agree that Outlander could have been a novel all to itself, but am awfully glad that DG wrote more and yes, DIA is the stepping stone for the series.

I can not imagine reading DIA and not continuing on to Voyager. I'd just have to know what was going to happen.

It would be like (view spoiler)[reading Voyager and it ending with Claire on the shore of America and then not reading Drums (hide spoiler)]!

Oh please continue Wendy! You know you want to!
.. And then Reading Drums and not being able to go into Fiery Cross....

Hahahaha, I've read all of them. Most of them multiple times.

That's another one! That would be dreadful. Imagine reading Echo and not reading book 8. There's no way these later books are stand-alones, haha.

I remember not liking this one the first time I read it, when I was a teen, it wasn't until my 2nd and 3rd re-reads that I actually started to get all the bits and pieces and loved it

I had the same problem. And actually alot of people that I ask to read it stall out in this one.

I think because it's way heavier on the history then Outlander was. It's when you really get into the war and the political intrigue.

I actually skipped large sections of this one, and am debating whether or not to go back and re-read. I've read all the others in their entirety. Thoughts? Is it worth it at this point?

You should defintitely go back and read it through.

I did alot of skimming when I read it as a teenager. But doing rereads after really gave me a new appreciation for it. You should give it a shot.

I will say that I loved all these books, but parts of the French political intrigue was just hard to follow for me. I'm excited to reread the series and catch what I might have missed the first time.

I didn't mind the politics in this book at all... What did bother me was noticing that Jamie did a lot of growing up in this book and wasn't as fun as in the first book. You could see that he had changed and I wasn't sure if it was for the best. I have to say that out of all of the books the most frustrating in that it just dragged and went on and on and on was Fiery Cross. Took me twice as long to finish this one than all the others.

I had the same problem with Fiery Cross. The second time I read it wasn't so bad though.

The political intrigue through the whole series is hard for me. I tend to not absorb what I'm reading with that stuff.

I actually loved the political and historical aspect of DIA even though I found myself flipping back and forgetting a lot of the stuff but it was very interesting. Imagine the amount of research Gabaldon put into each book. Even though I loved DIA I loved voyager even more. Voyager is my favorite especially because we got to see jamie's point of view it was so interesting!

I just finished reading/listening to DIA for the second time. This was the first time listening to it in audio and it was wonderful hearing the Gaelic and French. When I first read this book, I had no idea how to pronounce any of that. Davina does a wonderful job and I love her Claire voice. I know exactly what you're saying Wendy and Ladyhawke about how can anybody stop reading this series after any of the books, other than the first LOL, especially reading them for the first time. I didn't take any breaks the first time thru. Since it was just last year when I read them, I had all available thru Echo - whew. Now it's torture waiting for the next installment.

The first time, I got a bit lost with all the characters and politic intrigue, even while taking notes (yeah, I took notes LOL - like a homework assignment! and I was never a good student...but maybe I would be now?). But after reading all the books plus the LJG books, I followed DIA better this time thru. I loved reading again how John Grey first appears and "meets" Jamie and Claire. I plan to time my reread of Voyager just before Scottish Prisoner comes out :)

Lisa, you give me hope. I can't wait to reread all the books. Yay!

Lisa, love your enthusiasm! You reminded me that I took notes too! Lol There is just so much info and I didn't want to get lost or confused so notes were a good idea at the time. I love DIA too. I'm still working on the series tho.

I agee 100%! I REALLY liked Outlander, but it wasn't until the first chapter of DIA that I was "hooked".

Oh good, somebody else who took notes LOL! It does help to remember all those details and characters, especially if you want to remember things for discussion. I keep a pad and pen nearby when I read any book now, especially the epic books like I'm reading now, the Game of Thrones series - egads! For pb/hc, I use small post-its to mark pages w/small notes. A pad for character lists, etc. My kindle is great because I can bookmark, highlite AND take notes - love it!

Did anybody else wondered if they missed a book in the Outlander series when starting DIA? It really threw me the first time reading and it's 1968! I had to check online to see the list of books in order. Which is nice that this discussion group shows that :) What's funny is that this time through, I popped the DIA audiobook on in the car and I freaked out, thinking I missed a book! Did it AGAIN!! Unbelievable...

Diane, what was it about ch. 1 in DIA that hooked you? Was it Roger? ;)

Did anybody else wondered if they missed a book in the Outlander series when starting DIA? It really threw me the first time reading and it's 1968!

Cracks me up every time I hear this! I think it gets everyone!!

Love the ebook features of highlighting and book marking too. Otherwise I still book mark throughout the hardbacks too. I have actually started a journal to write passages and quotes that I find exceptional so that I can have them in one place and not have to go in search of a book to find them.

After I finished Outlander, I bought DIA.
Same thing happened to me. I looked at the publication dates of both DIA and Voyager and found my answer. Of course everything made sense in the first chapter.

That's an excellent idea Ladyhawk! A journal for fav passages and quotes! Whew, glad to hear that DIA's beginning throws some other readers. You're right Carren, if you read further in the chapter, you figure it out, but it's that initial panic. I nearly wrecked the car while trying to browse thru my ipod, looking for another Outlander book, navigating mountain curves. Not recommended. They talk about talking on cell phones while driving. Dealing with ipods while driving isn't too bright either :D

Diane wrote: "I agee 100%! I REALLY liked Outlander, but it wasn't until the first chapter of DIA that I was "hooked"."

I had the same experience many, many years ago.

I finished DIA a few days ago and overall liked the book. There was only one thing that really bothered me and it was Jamie and Randall and Claire. What it boils down to -- at least to me--is that Randall raped Jamie, and Claire wouldnt let the man who RAPED her husband die.

I understand that without Randall there wouldnt have been Frank (which is a completely other 'rant') but I mean come on...the guy RAPED her husband. The fact that Claire wouldnt let Jamie at least hit the man really rubbed me the wrong way...

What do you think?

I totally agree Morgan! Claire is in a rare unreasonable position when it comes to Jamie pummeling Randall. I know it's a huge debate whether it's all that important if black jack dies, Frank won't exist. Some say "so?". We know Claire doesn't want to mess with the 'time/space continuum'.

I honestly was shocked that Diana took up that position. I mean if she said dont kill him but you can beat him up (for lack of a better term) that would be different. She was defending the man who raped her husband...

Especially since Jaime is so young--which Claire points out often--she should understand how humiliating it is and how difficult it would be for Jaime to control himself.

Exactly! She did ask a lot of Jamie when she asks him to spare the man who raped him! That's a tough part of the story to take!

I don't think that it's that she doesn't want to mess with the time space continuum. I think it's that even though she chose to stay with Jamie she still loved him and the thought of his death was too hard for her to take. I don't think she would have cared if Jamie had just fought him and kicked his ass, but there's no way it would have stopped there.

I hated what that did to Jamie, but I couldn't blame her for not wanting to take the chance that Frank wouldn't have been born. I can't say I wouldn't have done the same. She was married and in love with Frank for 8 years.I also think that Jamie understood, when he was able to separate himself from his emotions.

Mirely wrote: "I didn't mind the politics in this book at all... What did bother me was noticing that Jamie did a lot of growing up in this book and wasn't as fun as in the first book. You could see that he had ..."

I'm just reading this for the first time, and I've definitely noticed that Jamie has changed. Honestly though, how could he not after the trauma that he went through? When I finished Outlander, part of me wanted them to be "happily ever after" but part of me also thought there was no way a human being could recover from that horrible experience so quickly, or ever, for that matter....so it seems very realistic to me that he has matured/changed considerably and lost his boyishness.

Morgan wrote: "I finished DIA a few days ago and overall liked the book. There was only one thing that really bothered me and it was Jamie and Randall and Claire. What it boils down to -- at least to me--is that ..."

I've just read this part in the book - and talk about a shock - I didn't even know he survived, that nasty bastard. My sense of justice wants Jamie to beat him to a pulp, but that does cause problems in the whole time continuum thing, especially if a person considers that without Frank, Claire might not have ended up near the stones in the first place, right?

When I first started reading this book (I'm 1/3 of the way through), I was completely and totally bothered by the idea that Jamie and Claire had "lost" 20 years together. That makes me sick to my stomach.

Randall dying would not have stopped Frank from being born because (view spoiler)[ Frank is a direct descendent of Alex Randall NOT Frank (hide spoiler)]. Claire doesn't know that. YET. It's irrational, imo, what she asked of Jamie. Killing Randall would have been too decent an end for that blackguard. Jamie could take what happened to himself, but the fact that it was happening again to Fergus...that was the last straw for him. I so wanted Jamie to at least severely maim the bastard. Maybe that makes me bloodthirsty, but I was with Jamie on that score.

Wendy F wrote: "I don't think that it's that she doesn't want to mess with the time space continuum. I think it's that even though she chose to stay with Jamie she still loved him and the thought of his death was..."

Well I was just joking, sorta, about the space/time continuum thing, but I know you all know what I mean!! And Wendy you are right in saying she could not bear the though of being responsible for allowing Frank to not exist . Buuuutt, if she was not planning on returning to her present, why worry about Frank at all?? If he was meant to be, nature would have found a way for him to exist! So in a sense she didn't want to take the chance of Frank not existing! And... If we knew at the time we read this dilemma, what Jen mentions in her spoiler, we wouldn't even need this conversation. LFMAO! This makes my head hurt!!

It does tend to boggle the mind, doesn't it? :)

Yes Jen, very much so!

The entire situation with Frank also made me think. If she really cared about him that much, then why did she leave him for Jaime. She had a choice between two men and she chose to be with Jaime. Now Im not saying she should go out of her way to hurt Frank but she made a decision and now she has to live with it.

If she wants to have a complete life then she cant be the watchdog for the future.

She can't have her cake and eat it, too! :)

Morgan wrote: "The entire situation with Frank also made me think. If she really cared about him that much, then why did she leave him for Jaime. She had a choice between two men and she chose to be with Jaime. N..."

Well, yes. But love doesn't fade so easily. For better or worse, she loved Frank and had been married to him for 8 years, right. So, if there was a way she could stop his death(or in this case enable him to be born) she wanted to do that. Plus, I think she felt guilty for choosing Jamie, for loving Jamie while they were still *technically* married. And maybe she felt...Life trumps revenge... I don't know.

Of course, it sucked that that came at the price of Jamie's pain.

I'm in the midst of reading this book, and I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the part where Jamie confronts Claire about King Louis. Obviously, he's upset because she lied, but I just don't understand why she lied anyway. After all, he all ready thought he knew what happened. And then he was so angry about the lie and the lost trust....but it seemed (to me) like she should have reacted with anger? After all, it wasn't like she WANTED to sleep with Louis. She was left with no choice, and I was very confused by the whole part where he asks her if she wants him to beat her. That didn't make sense to me, so I know I'm missing some important point. Is it because she gave the whole act with Louis more power by NOT telling Jamie, made it into something it really wasn't?

Mary wrote: "I'm in the midst of reading this book, and I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the part where [spoilers removed]"

First off, I think you don't need to spoiler tag anything that happens in DIA in DIA topic.

As to the other.That was an emotionally packed scene, all right. I think she lied because she didn't want to hurt him. At first as she said, she felt angry and wanted to hurt him with it, but then she felt he'd bee hurt enough. She wanted to save him from the pain of knowing what his action and her love had cost her.
As to Jamie, I believe he felt responsible for it happening and hurt b/c she kept it from him(no matter her motivation). And in the strictest sense she had committed adultery, and he knew that there had been another man and so did she... I think she asked, because she wanted to heal both of them, to make them forget all the aches and let it go. And if it made him feel less lost... I'm not sure she'd have followed through with it, though.

Mimi wrote: "Mary wrote: "I'm in the midst of reading this book, and I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the part where [spoilers removed]"

First off, I think you don't need to spoiler tag anything that hap..."

Thanks Mimi - I was thinking I should put a spoiler tag in just in case a person was reading that hadn't gotten to that part. It was a shock to me as I was reading, and I think if a person all ready knew what happened, it might not have the same effect?

I agree with what you said - maybe she was thinking that some action on his part - even if it was violence - would help to bring them past the loss of trust. Although, I still feel a little bit like she wouldn't just submit to his violence, but then again, maybe at that point, she was beyond anger and just didn't want to feel isolated in her own pain?

I think that's it all so much more gray then that. She stayed with Jamie because she loved him. Because she weighed them both, Frank and Jamie, and she realized that she couldn't live without Jamie.

BUT, that doesn't mean that she doesn't still love Frank at that point. And yes! What Randall was going to do to Fergus was DISGUSTING. Unforgivable. But do you sacrifice one life you love (possibly) for the sake of another.

Just because I'm no longer with my ex doesn't mean that I would idly stand by while my husband did something that jeopardized my exes life.

I think the only thing Claire did that upset me was how she responded once it was done. I can completely understand why she wanted to prevent it (as I already explained), but to try to refuse to see Jamie afterwards was horrible. Just as I can rationalize her behavior in regards to trying to save Frank, she should have been able to rationalize Jamie's actions. Obviously, after Jamie's speech about sparing Randall for Claire, so Franks death was not on her conscience, something terrible had to have happened for Jamie to go after him!

Anyway, I guess you can say that she was lost in her grief...

Mimi wrote: "Mary wrote: "I'm in the midst of reading this book, and I just wanted to hear your thoughts on the part where [spoilers removed]"

First off, I think you don't need to spoiler tag anything that hap..."

I agree Mimi. Just because Jamie thought he knew, she didn't want to make it real in his head. She wanted to spare him the pain of knowing.

And I think that when Jamie found out the truth, his anger was at her for lying... but also I think it was just a general anger at the whole rotten situation.

Wendy, I didn't like how she responded either. And later too. I was really upset while I was reading about the aftermath of the duel, thinking "Where's jamie? Where the hell is Jamie?" It didn't seem like him to leave her alone after the miscarriage, so I knew something bad had happened. The practical, nursing part of her brain had to know that the miscarriage wasn't Jamie's fault, but at the same time, to lose her baby, she wasn't herself...that is clear enough. The scene where he asks Claire if it was a girl or a boy - that breaks my heart.

When he finally comes to her... yeah, one of the most heart breaking scenes in the series for me. Not only does Jamie have to deal with his own guilt, even though it wasn't his fault, he has to deal with the part of Claire that thinks it's his fault too. So sad.

Ladyhawk wrote: "Well I was just joking, sorta, about the space/time continuum thing, but I know you all know what I mean!!"

LOL! I guess I didn't think you were joking because there IS the whole issue of time space continuum, lmao. I mean, Frank exists.... she married him... so say he was never born, does he just erase out of her memories or does her future/past stay the same?! It's so confusing!

What is the significance of Raymond telling Claire why he calls her "madonna?"

Mary wrote: "What is the significance of Raymond telling Claire why he calls her "madonna?""

I think it's because he's a time traveler himself(DG confirmed that) and sees her as the same.

Mimi wrote: "Mary wrote: "What is the significance of Raymond telling Claire why he calls her "madonna?""

I think it's because he's a time traveler himself(DG confirmed that) and sees her as the same."

I went looking and read that also, although I was confused in the actual book because she looks for his vaccination scar and doesn't find it. But from what DG said, it sounds like he recognized her by her blue aura as one of his great, great, etc. granddaughters...and also the color "blue" is symbolic of "life." I didn't realize that there was symbolism in the colors in the book, but now that I think about it - blue is Claire, red is Jamie and black is Jack Randall and the hangman...I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of at the moment.

Wendy F wrote: "I think that's it all so much more gray then that. She stayed with Jamie because she loved him. Because she weighed them both, Frank and Jamie, and she realized that she couldn't live without Jam..."

Wendy I totally agree for Claire's reasons for trying to prevent it.

But her reaction later was also very complicated. I think it was because part of her blamed him for losing her child and forcing her(not in the literal sense) to sleep with another man. Part of her probably couldn't get over her loss and seeing Jamie, when the last time they were together their baby was still alive, would make it more real. Plus, being with Jamie would force her to leave this protective, emotionless bubble she had been living in and that would mean even more pain. Still I think she could've visited him at least once after his release. I guess she needed time...

If they hadn't met at her friend's and had drifted apart I would feel a lot different about all this.

How I love rehashing these books!

Reading these parts are making my heart hurt all over again for Jamie(and Claire). The miscarriage and then the end were two parts where I bawled like a baby.