Christian Speculative Fiction discussion

Hello... lo... lo... (yes, that's an echo). Am I also hearing crickets? Just wondering if anyone on this forum is still wandering around.
Michael - author of: Shadows: Book of Aleth, Part One

I don't think so. Not much activity at all here.

Not much activity, but some of us are still here.

Whew! I'm glad that I'm not alone. Thanks for responding Janelle and Rachel.

I'm still lurking about.

Another lurker...

Hi Banner and Patrick! Glad to see some more folks.

lurker here.

Hi there, Sporadic Reviews (aka Kevin)! Glad to see you here. :) Merry Christmas.

A year later, and there are still a few of us around.

Thanks, Glen. Amen!
Merry Christmas everyone.

Here:-)

Yup! Still here and waiting for the next pre-apocalyptic political thriller. Now that we know the Lord wanted Obama in for a second term, what does that mean?

I'm here too. I've been slacking a bit on groups in general, sadly. Hope everyone is doing well.

David wrote: "Yup! Still here and waiting for the next pre-apocalyptic political thriller. Now that we know the Lord wanted Obama in for a second term, what does that mean?"

You should read my latest work - Shadow Remnant! It is not a pre-apocalyptic but it does look at the issue of America becoming a socialist nation and one man's quest to restore liberty. Five star reviews from many!

*de-cloak* Yes - still here. Too many plates in the air to add intelligent comments. Hoping to re-engage when the dust settles. Happy New Year to all. *cloak-on*

My question is this: Communication is both give and take...speaking and listening. We can see who is speaking/posting, but who is listening/reading? Has Goodreads become just a bunch of people posting but no real, intelligent feedback coming in from others in the forum?

That is a good question.

Some groups are quiet, some are talkative. I think it varies a lot. I have a lot of health problems so I'm often too sick to post. But I like reading people's comments.

Yay, a Christian Speculative Fiction group! Let's get some discussions rolling again. :-) My name is Gwendolyn and I LOVE time travel and Christian Fiction. My latest read was --absolutely fantastic. I'm currently reading

Great idea G.L.!

Storming looks intriguing. I just downloaded the sample and plan to try it out.

A couple of science fiction books I've read recently that have a Spiritual (even Christian ) flavor

The Chaplain's War

The Didymus Contingency

Loved the Didymus Contingency! I wish Robinson would write more Christian based novels, this is the only one of his that I know, all his others are not Christian based at all. Even though I love the others. He rarely mentions anything about his faith.

Peter I agree. I think I've read 3 others. They were good but lacking in spiritual themes.

I like Christian fiction as a genre, but I also enjoy fiction in other genre that deal ( in a real way) with spiritual themes.

Agree with you, Banner, however I don't bother with the book if the spiritual content conflicts with, ridicules or offers a different "Gospel" than what is in the bible.

Agree with you, Banner, however I don't bother with the book if the spiritual content conflicts with, ridicules or offers a different "Gospel" than what is in the bible.

I don't mind so much with the conflict or bad theology but I have a hard time with books that ridicules the faith. Some may say it is only character profile, but it often feels like an agenda to me.

Banner wrote: "I don't mind so much with the conflict or bad theology but I have a hard time with books that ridicules the faith. Some may say it is only character profile, but it often feels like an agenda to me."

Yes, that bugs me too! I have a problem when authors use a story line to subtly attack either someone, or a particular faith, etc just because they have an issue with it. I don't believe this shows any respect. If it is used objectively to show then that is a completely different matter. The reader is not influenced by the author's personal bias.

Great to see some activity here. I'll take those last comments a step further. Not only is attacking another denomination's tenets poor form, so is breaking the fourth wall to instruct the reader.

I think when it comes to transmitting your faith to paper, Story is King. Readers don't really want to be proselytized, but they are open to good story: plot, character development, real stakes, adventure.

So, I guess influencing a reader is a little like Inception. The moral lesson needs to be caught rather than taught. If the main character goes into a moral dilemma and makes a good decision, their thoughts and actions can influence the reader more than they realize.

When they make a poor decision, and then deal with the consequences, perhaps make a turn or learn a painful lesson, this also can encourage the reader, because they identify with the character.

When the writer breaks in and spends a page or two giving their own spin on faith, the reader fails to care, unless they went into the book with that in mind (non-fiction).

All of that really hinges on the craft of writing, drawing the reader in, MAKING them care about the character and their predicament, makeup, flaws, and story line. MAKING them care whether Bilbo actually gives up the ring to Gandalf or disappears from sight and becomes the next Gollum.

That's when a writer can influence for good - when the craft and story are so compelling the reader doesn't even realize they've been changed for the better.

Just my two cents.

Chris wrote: "Great to see some activity here. I'll take those last comments a step further. Not only is attacking another denomination's tenets poor form, so is breaking the fourth wall to instruct the reader.
..."

Chris, you have expanded more on what I was saying and said it well. My thoughts exactly!

Three extreme examples of theology in literature: Jennifer Government This is not a Christian book. It is an example of a theological void recommended to me by a friend that I only present here for its example. It is written in a slightly futuristic/alternative reality where church, faith, and religion is just not mentioned at all. Completely avoided. To the point where the book is not believable. Nobody goes to church. Nobody even so much as drives past a church...or a temple...or any sign of religion in this dystopian world. They just aren't there. But that void is not what makes this world so dark. Instead, the "good guys" are the government "messiahs" who stand between humanity and the evils of corporate corruption. Even Star Trek had religious discussions that I could relate to better than this.

On the other hand: Illusion This is one of Frank Peretti's latest books that deals with speculative physics and the like (I shouldn't say too much or I'd spoil the plot). I think the only time it mentions "church" is when the characters take refuge in one because one of them has keys to get in (the implication being that he is a man of faith involved in his church). There is very little discussion of moral values other than a basic explanation of motives, but I recommend this book for married couples because of how it made me feel--I want to grow old with my spouse like the hero did.

Third example: The Sparrow This book is almost completely comprised of a theological discussion disguised as a gritty space saga involving a group of Jesuit priests who travel to a distant planet to bring the gospel to an alien race. It's not a children's book. There is language, rampant immorality, and some serious adult themes that happen within the story. It's also very depressing--there is no happy ending. However, for those who are reading it for the theological message--who feel just as broken as the main character retelling his story after the mission failed--it is one of the most powerful inspirational works I've encountered.

Robert I've only read The Sparrow from your three examples and I was also very moved by this book. There were numerous times when I was moved to think of deeper spiritual things, but not one time did I ever feel preached too. Of the many things that impressed me about the book was the relationship between the believers and the non believers. They actual liked and respected each other.

Banner wrote: "Great idea G.L.!

Storming looks intriguing. I just downloaded the sample and plan to try it out.

A couple of science fiction books I've read recently that have a Spiritual (even Christian ) flav..."

Banner,

"The Didymus Contingency" sounds excellent! I'm adding it to my TBR. Thanks!

To join in on the discussion about fiction with faith-elements, lately it seems most "Christian Fiction" is more secularized--focusing on a character struggling with the flesh, and sparing on thoughts/prayers regarding God--and while I do enjoy clean mainstream types, when I reach for Christian Fiction, I want Christ-centered stories, with at least one character who loves God and lives their life to please Him throughout the entire story. Why are authors hesitant to present these stories to the world anymore? Because readers complain that such a character is "boring" or "unrealistic"? I beg to differ, these people exist, and they want to read about characters they can relate to as well!

Banner wrote: "Robert I've only read The Sparrow from your three examples and I was also very moved by this book. There were numerous times when I was moved to think of deeper spiritual things, but not one time d..."

That's what was amazing about the writing. You had whole chapters of Jesuits just discussing morality and you never noticed it because they were also discussing application of that morality to the current predicament...which the reader cared about much more than the underlying theology they were discussing. I don't know if you read the sequel, but it was also very powerful. Not as a re-hash of the same theme, but a completely new direction. It picked up the characters right where they left off at the end of the first book and took the story in such a new and different direction but still kept that theme of theological discussions and moral struggles disguised as battles being waged between two alien races on a distant planet.

Another space series I've tried to put into peoples' hands is C.S. Lewis' space trilogy: Out of the Silent PlanetPerelandraThat Hideous Strength. The first one is obviously his first, so you have to give him some benefit of the doubt to get through it. The second is pretty good until you get to the end and he starts trying to imitate J.R.R. Tolkien with what comes across as Elvish singing on Venus. By the time you get to the third, though, there is a lot of preaching you just don't notice because he found his stride and turned the whole book into a wild page-turner that made me want to stay up late on a work-night just to keep reading.

G.L. wrote: "To join in on the discussion about fiction with faith-elements, lately it seems most "Christian Fiction" is more secularized--focusing on a character struggling with the flesh, and sparing on thoug..."

I can't understand why my local Christian bookstore has a whole wall (one of the three sides of the store) devoted to "Amish Romance" and only one shelf of Ted Dekker. I guess the metropolitan masses want to read about the purity of the country life along with those who are living it. Maybe it's just us refugees in the suburbs who can relate to messed-up people trying to make the best of things in a messed-up world; the rest of the population either lives too far or too near for the subject to make for good recreational reading.

We live in a dark world. Sadly, many who have the light don't want anything to do with the darkness beyond their bushel.

Amish fiction is very safe for publishers and readers. Apparently nothing bad can happen in the land of the Amish. I personally refuse to touch the stuff.

I love Lewis's Space Trilogy. Out of the Silent Planet transformed my reading, and I loved Perelandra just as much. I was a little cooler on the third book, but I still rate all these books among my most influential reads.

Have you seen or read this book,

Amish vampires in Space? This is a Christian novel by Christian author.

Don't be fooled by the title!

http://www.amazon.com/Amish-Vampires-...

The author explains why he wrote this book and why readers love it and it is not just because it combines these two genres together! Find out in this interview:

http://www.speculativefaith.com/amish...

Robert wrote: "Banner wrote: "Robert I've only read The Sparrow from your three examples and I was also very moved by this book. There were numerous times when I was moved to think of deeper spiritual things, but..."

I did read the sequel also. They both told a great story. and yes I've read the Lewis Space Trilogy (thanks for suggesting it ). Also great reading.

Here's one that I wouldn't put in the same category as the books we are talking about, but if you enjoyed them you may enjoy this.

The Chaplain's War

It's different. Sounds like you and I share an enjoyment of aliens and theology. This book has both lol.

Janelle wrote: "I love Lewis's Space Trilogy. Out of the Silent Planet transformed my reading, and I loved Perelandra just as much. I was a little cooler on the third book, but I still rate all these books among m..."

Janelle, I also had the same feelings toward the third book. I really enjoyed the first two.

One small aspect I remember really enjoying about the third book was the inter dialogue of the bear. I wish Lewis would have expanded that.

Michael wrote: "Hello... lo... lo... (yes, that's an echo). Am I also hearing crickets? Just wondering if anyone on this forum is still wandering around.
Michael - author of: [book:Shadows: Book of Aleth, Part One..."

I hope so. I just joined GoodReads yesterday...here's my book, The Sing Song Child, on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Sing-Song-Child...

Robert wrote: "G.L. wrote: "To join in on the discussion about fiction with faith-elements, lately it seems most "Christian Fiction" is more secularized--focusing on a character struggling with the flesh, and spa..."

I don't mean to be offensive, and I apologize if you or anyone else was offended by my comment. I dont read Amish either. I prefer my fiction full of adventure, and I'm just expressing my frustration over finding more and more ChristFic with wordly flavor. A maturing Christian character who approaches life eternity-minded will have flaws and struggles, and there are Christian readers who want to read about such characters.

Please understand that much of what is "worldly flavor" to some is denominationally appropriate for others. Do you think Isaiah and Elijah would have thought Ezekiel and Daniel's apocalyptic visions were "appropriate" forms of prophecy? They're incredibly different in style and content. I'm not talking about accepting GLBT or that silly "love-without-understanding" doctrine, but there is room for diversity within Christianity. (Then again, if everything said about me by other Christians was true, then I must be a devil worshiper.)

As for Amish romance, I am partly disgusted by how fast my church library's bookshelves were overwhelmed with that genre when we asked for donations. That and the fact that, when a guy writes a book about "historical fiction" it is immediately assumed to be an Amish romance...because historical fiction couldn't possibly be written about any other period in history.

Peter wrote: "Have you seen or read this book,

Amish vampires in Space? This is a Christian novel by Christian author.

Don't be fooled by the title!

http://www.amazon.com/Amish-Vampires-......"

Thanks for pointing me to that website. A great article about what drives the industry.

Interesting discussion. Especially since many Christian readers are complaining that Christian fiction these days is too sanitised, the characters too unrealistically perfect.

I guess it just shows that there are different audiences for different stories. I am sure God can use them all.

Haha. I knew somebody would mention Amish Vampires in Space when amish fiction came up.

I interviewed the author, Kerry Nietz, last year on my youTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-mI2...

And, of course, I have to ask the same question I ask of the Vampire romance genre: how many authors—especially women romance authors—are successful at writing romance books but haven’t a clue how to hold their own marriages together? (Or should I ask this under a pseudonym, since I might not get invited back to my writer’s group?) What kind of help are you giving to the reader if you have no clue how real relationships work? Sometimes the wizards and the dragons are the least of the fantasy.

But seriously. I have to confess that the Amish Romance epidemic has not helped to quell my own personal faith crisis when it comes to the validity and entirety of the Gospels. If you count all the red letters in the NT as the ONLY words Jesus ever spoke, you have to admit he was the most laconic of all teachers. Ever. It is assumed that he shared a lot of other discussions with his disciples that were not written down but that influenced the many epistles they wrote. However, I’ve recently discovered that there are several apocryphal books claiming to be “secret” doctrines that he taught that were not accepted by the mainstream readers circa 50 AD. I’ve been working on my own speculative adventure based on some of the intrigue that has happened over the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I’ve learned a lot of things that make it really hard to go back to the blind, unquestioning faith of my childhood. The overwhelming, choking, push-other-books-off-the-shelves-and-out-of-the-bookstores success of Amish Romance, or any other fan-fueled genre, for that matter, does fuel the common suspicion that the Gospels could have been abridged by Jesus’ fans just as much as they may have been edited by his enemies.

Think about that, Wanda Brunstetter, the next time you cash that fat royalty check.

So true and funny! A writer has to be able to "flesh" out the characters. Amish books really! Ugh!

Nice interview, Adam. I never realized there was so much controversy over that book.

There were several articles about that book on that website. The one about having to reboot it as a self-published title because the publisher dropped it is interesting, too. Brings to mind the old illustration of the Guru at the top of the mountain. Nobody knows what he has to say, but we all think the hike is worth it based on what we hope he'll say. It's the same with books. Nobody's going to put down their cash for the author's message unless they already think they know what he's going to say...and they think they want to hear it.