Underdog Writing discussion

Welcome all you readers and fellow writers. As if twitter wasn't enough, here's another avenue we can meet.

First off, I want to avoid all the 'get my book' stuff, and talk about what's working and what's not. I'll start by saying I read that John Locke book and have seen everyone else doing it. Stuff like Twitter, facebook, blogging, goodreads (here we are), and having your own website. I think because of his book we're flooding the airwaves and nullifying any good it would have done. There may be some success with it still but I feel we need to shift to other avenues.

Here's what I'm doing differently. I started by just releasing short stories. It gets something out there in the universe even if it isn't the best. Your name is on something that complete strangers can see. I used smashwords which has been an easy experience thus far and I recommend it. I've had horrible experience with amazon because they refuse to make the stories free even though I keep reporting to them it is.

I know not everyone could do this, but I started a silly comic strip and try to release a new one everyday or as often as possible. My hope is that I can get other people's attention on wordpress that are not twitter followers. Other ways could be a funny picture like Gary Larson's Far Side. Or I see great photo blogs if your into photography. Maybe a weekly poem or a movie/book review you update regularly. My thought is it doesn't have to be a long, well thought out blog. It can be small and short and fun. People don't want to waste their time.

I haven't really seen a huge difference with my website, but I have an idea for it that I hope will draw others in. My cousin is helping me build a forum where people can pitch short/ridiculous movie ideas. So you'll be bored at work, and go to this site, see what others are writing, get a good laugh and maybe post one of their own. It will have very little to do with my writing, but it will get traffic to my site so that they hopefully see, hey, I'm a writer as well.

My hopes for this group is sharing fresh ideas like this, that we can all use - and only us, because as Locke proved, revealing your techniques to too many people will kill its effectiveness.

I don't know how good my ideas are yet, but at least I know that most others aren't doing it.

Welcome all. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for the invitation =)

Thank You.
I am honored to be invited.
I will be honest and respectful.

Nice to be here! My friend Cindy Adkins drove her Blogging for women book to number one in the blogging category by having a free seminar and giving people a certificate of completion that they then post on their websites! The certificate has driven her book sales up a lot and she also uses Listmania. She tweets her heart out and thinks its not really doing much...

I appreciate the invitation! Thanks.

Thanks for the invitation. I have three novels published and each day do a mad dance to keep up with the postings/messages/correspondence of the various websites I'm on. When I step back and seriously look at which site works best, I feel most are authors informing authors of their books. Writers read and purchase books as well, but I'm looking (as everyone else) to reach the true reader venues. At times I can't find enough hours in the day to balance personal life and the need to continue marketing efforts. Oh well, letting off a bit of frustration. But everything changes to worthwhile, and my energy is renewed, when an unknown reader sends me an email advising how much they enjoyed my work.

Thanks for the invite.

I'm a reader not a writer but I like to see what you writer's are up to, especially if it's in the horror vein....... I've five spots left on my 2012 reading list open to independent horror novelists. Details about this can be found here http://caffeineandchapters.blogspot.c...

I'm making a concerted effort to find that ultimate horror novel I've been searching for. It's out there somewhere :)

Really appreciate being invited to this group!

I think that J.P.'s ideas are great. Short stories are a great way to launch name recognition. I've been trying to get published in some well-known scifi short story magazines. I just started, so I haven't heard one way or the other from anyone yet, but at least I haven't been rejected immediately! Thinking back to the old days, people like Arthur Clarke and Philip Dick, they started with short stories and then went on to be novelists. Worked pretty well for them.

The comic strips, movie pitches, good stuff I think. "It will have very little to do with my writing, but it will get traffic to my site so that they hopefully see, hey, I'm a writer as well." I think that is exactly the way to go. I'm thinking of the Geico commercials - they have nothing to do with car insurance, really. They're just memorable.

I work at a library, and we do a great job of keeping the newest releases by the most popular authors in stock. People don't come to me and ask, "Do you have Kill Alex Cross?" They ask, "Do you have the newest James Patterson book?" Most people don't know the title of the newest releases by Patterson, Cussler, Steele, whoever. They just know they have one out and they want to read it because they like the author.

Based on my experience, it's all about name recognition and the author's public persona. If we, as aspiring authors, can sell ourselves effectively - that is, convince people that *we* (not the books per se) are interesting - then book sales will follow.

I just released a e-novel on Amazon and B&N. I've had a lot of friends and family buy it (and really enjoy reading it), even people who don't like science fiction. But they like me, and think I'm interesting enough a person, that they were willing to give it a chance. I think I have a good cover and a good book description/sell, and a good title, too, but ultimately people who know me bought it because of me, not the book itself.

Books by new authors don't do as well at my library as known authors, but we do have special sections dedicated to new fiction for people to browse. Rarely does a new book not circulate somewhat. I have an advantage because my colleagues are open to helping me, and so my book is getting uploaded to our e-book catalog and they'll be making a print version available on the shelves as well. If your local library has an e-book collection, I'd suggest you contact the collection development manager about getting yours in there. It's usually as simple as uploading the file, and it should be free for the library (at least with OverDrive).

It's kind of old-school, but I'm working on the local paper and my college's alumni magazine (I guess getting a book into a library is pretty old-school too these days). But I just think that Twitter is not effective, and it sounds like a couple of you agree. Only the people that already know you are going to follow you, and those that don't who start following you already follow 4000 other people. How big is that tweet about your book gonna look? Same with Facebook. You might get the unexpected re-tweet and re-share, but at least with Twitter, it's just so overcrowded with BUY MY BOOK IT'S ONLY $.99 (I've done it, admittedly, and my data shows very few clicks from twitter).

As for blogging, I think that's the best way to build the persona. Make people laugh, or offer insight into something, and people will remember your name. Let them find out you've got ebooks or short stories on their own. I think people will be more receptive.

Those are the things I'm working on/thinking about right now. J.P. has inspired me to maybe post some short stories online instead of going the more traditional route I talked about above. I think the traditional approaches are underutilized by us indie writers, though.

Hey, this writer's group looks fun. Thanks for the invite.

Thanks everyone for jumping in so quickly.

I was thinking on my way to work today if it would be a good idea to have actual physical books made and then send them off to schools and libraries to whoever would take them all over the U.S. Maybe some local used bookstores too. Or just sit out in front of supermarkets and hand them out. It would be costly but maybe a good investment. I would do 500 max, paperback (hardcover looks a little too pricey). I'm not sure how well it would work.

yeah that would rule, but physical books cost the author/publisher money
I, myself, don't really have the funds for that kind of investment

j.p.yager wrote: "Thanks everyone for jumping in so quickly.

I was thinking on my way to work today if it would be a good idea to have actual physical books made and then send them off to schools and libraries to ..."

I've wondered too about buying some copies of a print version and trying to see if Half Price Books would buy them off me. I'd lose money, but at least it would get them on the shelf and you never know who might buy it and want to buy more!

You also might be able to convince the library to buy it out of its own budget, if you can sell the printed copy through Amazon or something.

Sarah is definitely right though about the cost. It's prohibitive to do too many (at least for me).

Ya. I'm worried the cost wouldn't balance the reward. Unless I make them myself... Just kidding. Although I did do that as a kid with construction paper. Anyone else ever do that growing up?

Having fun reading all of your post . As for my novella "TEAR AVENGER" it has been doing "ok" in the Amazon, Barnes, Lulu venues but recently I released a blog consisting of 200 poems I wrote in past years and have been sitting in a folder inside my desk. I am trying something unique where I set the words to music and release the poems as Cinematic Poetics . Seems to be pushing traffic towards my book as I see increased sales . I s it because of the new blog , I would have to say yes . I belive a reader has to trust an author and my poems are very honest and telling..... Joshua http://poetintheshadows.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the invite. I am finding book promotion to be a labyrinth of dark alleys. I look forward to learning from my fellow authors.

Howdy all...

First, I would like to agree with J.P. I started off merely put up short stories that I would like to read myself. I thought that making my own stories for my own enjoyment would be enough. Until a publisher happened across my work and said, hey would you like to submit a short for us. It was a humble beginning and it still is, but I find myself writing more and more because of it. I don't think any of us really start writing because of money, some do, but not a lot. We do it for the love of making a good story.
Promoting... Man that is hard... I don't think there is one 'right' way to do it. I think that we all have different venues. Me personally, I'm a hermit that is a tech crazed gadget hoarding hacker. That makes the Twitter/Facebook/GR so on easy for me. But, I've also had bookmarks made with the cover of my book or postcards made with a cover of my book and a blurb, and when I do venture out, I leave them in places. Perhaps the library's won't let you place your book, but what about bookmarks that are sponsored by you? Or leaving a post card somewhere that you know your 'audience' hangs out can really help as well. I know places like Vista Print and so on have specials all the time and it may cost you a little less than buying a hard copy book yourself.

Greetings all, and thanks for the invite.

I have a bit of a different story to what lead me into the indie/self publishing rush.

I am a professional storyteller at Renaissance Faires and Celtic Festivals. I decided to use this as a platform to promote my work, and I've done fairly well at it there. I started in May and have just seen my success grown, even though the numbers for the print copy of my novels haven't been reflected on Amazon, I've sold a lot there.

As for a way to get the word out on my books and promotion. I have created a coupon for one of my novels, making it 100% off on Smashwords. Normally, on Amazon and Smashwords, it's $.99. I published it, not expecting to make any money from it, because I added the first chapter of four of my other works onto the back of it. When I did that, I noticed an increase in sales all of my other works. Might be something for other to consider.

Thanks for the invite.

Great ideas. I didn't even think of a bookmark. And coupons look promising too. I just saw on the kindle direct site, they have a new thing going: kdp select. Anyone mess with press releases?

Hi guys, I'm not an indie author, but I still have to do a lot of promotion on my own. My publisher does some, but not all. I don't have the luxury of offering coupons for my novel, since the publisher sets the price and I get royalty statements quarterly.

I love the idea of the bookmarks and postcards. These are things I think I might try to do.

I agree with most of the comments about twitter/fb it's a slow process with what I believe is minimal success. Also, I am somewhat introverted, so I find tweeting painful...lol

One of the things that my publisher strongly recommended was to try to get my book reviewed by reputable review sites. I have to tell you that it is very similar to getting published in the first place...more rejections then acceptances. However, I have been reviewed by one site so far and have two more pending. I understand that many sites will not review self-published works, but there are a some who will. I found this link for a site that reviews indie work, I hope it helps.

Trace =)

http://reelswellblog.com/indie-author...

Trace,

I totally understand about giving coupons out to your book. But you could write a novella/novellete, perhaps set in the same world and as your publisher if you can put the first chapter of the book the published for you at the end of it.

As far as twitter/facebook, I have found some success with them, mostly as networking with other authors and learning about what's going on in the world of publishing. I've also met some great friends and fans there, some of which have become my most loyal readers. It's not for everyone, and you may not get to the best seller lists from Facebook and Twitter, but both are great places to get news and information, as well as keep your current readers posted on what you are up to!

Thanks, M! That is a great idea. I'll definitely ask my publisher when I finish the novel I'm working on.

I found another indie link...

http://www.independentauthornetwork.c...

No problem! If you have an agent, you should have him or her approach the publisher for you, she or she should know the right buttons to push to get the publisher fired up over the idea. More exposure for you = more sales. Win/win.

Thanks Trace, I submitted to the reviewer you provided. I do have a master list of reviewers that I received from my friend Jane:

http://pippajay.blogspot.com/2011/07/...

I found about 4 from the list that I sent review requests off to. I hope it helps :-)

Hi, Candace! Thanks for that link I'm going to go over it later when I'm not fighting off cranky kidlets...lol I really appreciate it!

Have any of you ever used Google's Adwords program to promote your books? Any success stories or cautionary tales?

I've been using Microsoft adCenter with a lot of great success driving more traffic to my site. I just started Google's Adwords and have found it a little pricier per click (33 cents to microsoft's 6-7). I don't even see my ad on google when I enter the appropriate key words. I'll keep you posted if it changes.

I had another idea for a promotion. A t-shirt company found me on twitter and it got me thinking. If you have a website you can offer a free t to the first three people to review your book or part of a contest. They don't cost too much and they are walking advertisements if people are wearing them around.

Thank you! One of the best things about hanging out with creative people - they have creative ideas. :)

For some reason, I never thought of a tee-shirt... Good idea. Thanks!

What a great group! This is a lot of the same things I've been experiencing myself--how to promote my book DIFFERENTLY than everyone else. Right now, everyone is doing the same thing--tweeting, facebook, etc...--and so it all becomes white noise to me. But, trying to find that unique way to promote without spending a lot of upfront money can be tricky. So far, I have nothing, but I am interested in learning more about the ads and how that works and if anyone has had great results going that route. Oh, and I would love to do t-shirts. Has anyone used a company that was affordable and produced good quality items? I'd love to know that as well.

So excited to be a part of this creative group! Thanks for the invite.

I really like the t-shirt idea!

Last year, I joined Romance Writers of America. At the meetings, I learned that members are mostly readers and not writers. Same thing goes for writer's groups. They are people who like to read, and think they'd love to write a book one day. But they aren't born writers.

Jon Konrath supposively sells 20,000 books a month. I think he does it by posting guest blogs about how to write on his website along with his books for sale. My problem is I'm so busy getting the book right, I don't have time to write anything else or to find someone to guest write for me.

But I do think that finding a way to sell books to writers is probably a good thing. The question becomes how to do it without going crazy or abandoning your writing.

Mindy, I can totally relate. I am finding it difficult to maintain a balance between the time I need to spend writing and the time I need to spend promoting myself. It's a tricky bit of road.

Mindy, I once sat with pen and paper and noted the various marketing actions I should be doing to promote my three novels. The paper filled quickly. But from it I realized I had to find some manner to discipline myself into establishing a daily schedule of writing so many hours and "marketing." If you don't, then you will drive yourself crazy, go in circles, and accomplish very little of both. p.s. I am still trying to force myself to maintain some semblance of daily order.

Yep.

Thank you for the invite! This seems like an amazing group!

So I'm doing a big book release weekend. I put an ad in my home newspaper (the Sacramento Bee).

I'm not thinking that was a great idea.

The guy who does classifieds called me to tell me they can't write 'amazon' in the ad and that's where I'm selling it. After he approves the ad (w/o where to get it), he tells me I should do a press release. I'm like, that's what I thought I was doing. Then he says he'll pass one along to somebody else at the paper. I don't think he did. I'll let you all know how my classified announcement worked after the weekend ends.

Goodluck, JP, I hope it works out for you.

Post a link to your new release. I'd love to check it out.

R. Lynn Wilson

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006...

Read the sample; bought the collection! Congrats on your new release.

R. Lynn Wilson

I look forward to being part of this group and hearing about your writing experiences and good ideas. Thanks

The newspaper ad didn't work at all, lol. But it was worth a shot. Thank you so much R.Lynn Wilson for the support! I'll return the favor then give it a well thought out review in the next couple of months.

After reading a reviewer's website, I submitted via the required process. The review was to be scheduled along with a list of other novels from various authors, but within a day I received my review. The reviewer became caught up in the story and read it all that day! It was outstanding and I simply want to share it because of its depth. http://ssbookfanatics.blogspot.com/20...
I have been fortunate to receive good reviews of my writings, but this one stunned me. I think I'm going to frame it. :-)
Thank you for allowing me to share it with you.
Glenn

Hello,

Wanted to introduce myself! Looking forward to joining the community!

Here's a bit about me and my books!

Erik Rodgers

Wetwire: Part One- The Human Technology
Wetwire: Visionaries Part Two- The Space Between
Small Histories

Hello! I didn't read Locke's book. Anything more than a year old is completely out-of-date. It's not the same ball game. Starting about a year ago, thousands of authors (like me) began publishing their backlists and all those books that got rejection letters over the past thirty years. Add all the people who had never even tried to get the books their moms liked published, before, and that's the current playing field. It will be about three years before it begins to taper off and the books that just weren't ready to be published, and the authors haven't worked to fix, sift to the bottom.

Greetings. I found this group link by link and was pleased to find it a good space for independent writers to share their thoughts and experiences.

Thanks for the invite. I totally agree that authors are saturating the www with promotions, so I have been very interested to read the posts here.

Hello and welcome, Thayer and Craig. Thayer, your welcome is overdue. We're usually more attentive. Jump right in. We're currently submitting nominations for the second category of book for the February read. So make sure you both find that discussion.

Hey everyone, I wasn't sure where to post this so I figured here is as good a place as any. I came across this e-publisher hosting open calls for romance work. Not sure if anyone here writes that genre but I thought it couldn't hurt to post the info.

Check out the link the E-Fiction Magazine's goodreads page:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11...