THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

That's a hard question Ryan, trying to remember sooo long back which book it was that really got me hooked on WW2. I think for me it was "Enemy at the Gates" by William Craig.

by William Craig

Interesting question.
My main interest used to be the American Civil war and I occasionally read a (big-selling) WWII book. But about two or three years ago I read Antony Beevor's which triggered my interest in a not so well known battle south of Berlin and bought this book . That started it all. In the last couple of years I read and bought over 150 books on WWII (oops)

Blimey that's difficult - my interest was pricked as a boy reading the Victor and things like Commando/War Picture Library/battle Picture Library etc. An example here .

Since then I have read tons more fiction and non-fiction - my first non-fiction when I was still at school would probably be about D-Day or Arnhem. I also recall my Dad buying books such as this and my reading them by Paul M. Kennedy

My WWII obsession (and that's really the only word for it) came more from the fact that I was born on Pearl Harbor Day (different year) the and grew up in the Philippines while WWII history surronds you more than any thing else that being said, the first book I remember reading cover to cover on the subject was an account by a journalist who was sailing with the USSLexington when it was sunk at the Battle of Coral Sea. Probably the best WWII book I have yet read is 'Midway' by Craig Symonds.

Ryan wrote: "Which book got you started on the subject of the War? "
Being born in Nov 1939 my childhood was overshadowed by WWII. Early memories of V1s and V2s and fathers coming home after the war. I seem to have been reading about WWII all my life, but the first books I read were probably those published in the late forties/early fifties by the fighter pilots and POWs - by Paul Brickhill, Douglas Bader, Pierre Clostermann, Russell Bradon etc. (Also of influence were the 'escape' films of the fifties - very popular in the UK). Shirer's book and Chester Wilmot's The Struggle for Europe which I read in my teens were the first 'heavyweight' histories I read.

Gee GV i still have a dozen of the Ballantine Illustrated books
on my shelf from my teenage yrs. not that you make me
feel old as your Dad or anything, ahem, hehehe.

Geevee wrote: "I also recall my Dad buying books such as this and my reading them ."

the fact that i m a 4th generation soldier (great grand dad fighting in WW I and grand dad in WW II) got me on WW II track in some way i guess. but the book and writer that was my first and made it my obsession was Paul caurells

Good book there Mansoor!

Hi Mansoor, I think you make an interesting point on family connections to the military. I had family members serve at Dunkirk and in Burma, Italy and North Africa (grandfather and uncle with Royal Artillery and Royal Sussex Regt in the British 4th Indian Division) and at Sea, and so was interested to learn more of these campaigns and the actions they were in.

It was probably a kids addition book on D-Day and the fact that my Dad was in the Army Air Corps and two uncles in the Navy and one in the Marines during WWII and tv shows such as The Gallant Men and Combat and the film The Longest Day that got me started at a young age.

Loved watching "Combat" as a kid as well and all those classic war movies; "Battle of Britain", "The Longest Day", etc.

First read on WW2" The Longest Day" by Cornelius Ryan-sometime in the mid to late 1960's was when i first read this book. Have been hooked on WW2 tiles since.

Another great film released in July of 1945 is The Story Of GI Joe. Robert Mitchum's first film I believe.

Dr. Michael wrote: "Another great film released in July of 1945 is The Story Of GI Joe. Robert Mitchum's first film I believe."

According to IMDB it was his 28th movie!

Probably what got me started was a comic book series called "Sgt. Rock". A cigar chewing , grizzled U.S. soldier from back when all I read was comics. "Combat" "Twelve O'Clock High" and later "Rat Patrol" (which was terrible) were popular when I was a Kid.

Sgt. Rock comics. Yes, how could I have forgotten them. I even learned the Rifleman's Ceed from Sgt. Rock."This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine...'

Thanks for the clarification on Mitchum John. Still, it's a great film. Burgess Meredith plays Ernie Pyle.

John, do you remember the series The Gallant Men? It only ran one season 1962 to 63.

I was just thinking the same thing Dr M, you beat me to a comment, my Dad watched all these shows so I did too, Combat was a
good one also it probably lasted the longest. how can one forget - Checkmate King 2, This is White rook over? i feel like i served with Sarge Saunders and Lt. Hanley!

i do recall Gallant Men, that took place in Italy and they called Germans Jerries all the time.

it may have just been on 1 season but back then they'd have 30 some episodes in a season.

12 oclock high was another good series. They'd
have guest stars/actors so they could have
some plot changes.

John, yeah there was a lull in TV shows about war then Rat Patrol came on and it was ridiculous and/or I was getting old enough to wonder why the same couple jeeps were defeating the whole Afrika Korps every episode, and who can forget Hans Gudegast? as
the German Lt.? that may have been the show's only
innovation which was to put a face on the opponent.


Dr. Michael wrote: "John, do you remember the series The Gallant Men? It only ran one season 1962 to 63."

Yep good book Mansoor, just finished it a couple weeks ago. Carell has a compelling style that
makes you feel you're along for the ride on
a panzer.

Mansoor wrote: "the fact that i m a 4th generation soldier (great grand dad fighting in WW I and grand dad in WW II) got me on WW II track in some way i guess. but the book and writer that was my first and made it..."

Dr. Michael wrote: "John, do you remember the series The Gallant Men? It only ran one season 1962 to 63."

I had forgotten about "The Gallant Men". Now that you mention it I do remember the name but I don't remember watching it as much as I remember "Combat".

I think at that time the war shows had stiff competition from westerns - which were another of my favorites.

I purchased the Combat dvd set a couple of years ago. That was a damn good tv show. Westerns certainly did dominate tv in the 50s and early 60s before the spy genre of the mid to late 60s.

Dr. Michael wrote: "I purchased the Combat dvd set a couple of years ago. That was a damn good tv show. "

may i borrow it?

Sure, come on by.

John wrote: "Probably what got me started was a comic book series called "Sgt. Rock". A cigar chewing , grizzled U.S. soldier from back when all I read was comics. "Combat" "Twelve O'Clock High" and later "Rat ..."
Yes, I think "Sgt. Rock" and the whole DC war line did it for me, too. This spring I had the great honor of meeting the strip's artist and co-creator, Joe Kubert. He's very old now but still working and running a comic art school as well. He's a fine gentleman, very good with fans.

I, too, watched "Combat" and "Rat Patrol" and so on. The first movie I remember seeing was "Lawrence of Arabia," which was a World War I picture, so I was ready for WWII movies. I think the first book I read on the subject was "The How and Why Wonder Book of World War II," by Edwards and Thompson. My first adult books on the war were four volumes of the Ballantine series, though I can't recall which I bought first: "Bastogne" (Elstob), "D-Day" (R.W. Thompson), and "Stalingrad" and "Kursk" by Geoffrey Jukes. They were all good books, and still are.

I think mine was either The Great Escape or The Colditz Story. I can't remember which one I read first, I think it was TGE. But I kept having flashbacks to scenes in Colditz (TV series), which I'd watched with my dad when I was about 6, so got the book and was then hooked!

My first recollection would be a scholastic book on the battle of waterloo. This sparked my interest in history, and then led to finding the Bantam WWII books. The first being Reach for the Sky.

My great-uncle was part of the Bataan Death March and was eventually shipped as a POW to Japan, surviving it all. Although I never got the opportunity to talk with him about his experiences before he passed away, I am highly curious about that event and the surrounding details. It has led me to read "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides, a great telling of the troops left at Cabanatuan and the Rangers who rescued them. I also have "Tears in the Darkness" by Michael and Elizabeth Norman to read about Bataan.

Having served in the Marine Corps and knowing general history about Iwo Jima and all th other Pacific campaigns, I want to learn and read more about not just those battles, but also the European campaign, especially in Italy as that is where my grandfather served in WWII in the Army.

Yes, a lot of personal and family history has spurred my desire to learn and read about WWII. (I'm also reading about other wars, but am sticking to this forum's main topic here.)

Glad to hear that your great-uncle survived the Bataan Death March and his time as a POW. The history of the USMC during WW2 is a great history and I am sure you are proud of their tradition.

Looking at good books covering American forces in Italy during WW2 have you checked out Rick Atkinson's trilogy:

and by Rick Atkinson

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Glad to hear that your great-uncle survived the Bataan Death March and his time as a POW. The history of the USMC during WW2 is a great history and I am sure you are proud of their tradition. "

Thank you, Rick. I am proud of having served in the Marines and of course am proud of the history, of those who have gone before...

I'll look into those books you suggested; they look interesting. If you know of other books out there, I'd like to hear of them.

Good stories Sarah. I like the WW2 history, and it always adds perspective when you know someone that was in a particular battle or even theater. Gives more meaning to the risks commanders take and to the term casualties.

My dad joined the Air Force in 1950/Korean War time frame. One reason was the 'new frontier' allure of the Air Force at the time and that you were usually on an Air Base and not a foxhole.

His first drill instructor in basic training had also been at Baatan, like your Great Uncle. He told them he was going to make them tough enough to handle something like that should they get captured.

Stationed in Sherman,Texas he had them march to the Red River and back (30-40 miles total), they marched over fences, rancher's property, some pretty scruffy
landscape overall. Gee! the Air Force was great
he thought.



Sarah wrote: "My great-uncle was part of the Bataan Death March and was eventually shipped as a POW to Japan, surviving it all. Although I never got the opportunity to talk with him about his experiences before ..."

When I was seven or eight, I got to meet a crewman from the U-505 so that really got me going. I was building u-boats and destroyers out of legos for weeks after! I've been hooked ever since.

Sarah wrote: "My great-uncle was part of the Bataan Death March and was eventually shipped as a POW to Japan, surviving it all. Although I never got the opportunity to talk with him about his experiences before ..."

Hi Sarah,
Interesting background and so I thought you might find these worth exploring:

by Lester I. Tenney

by James Holland

Will wrote: "When I was seven or eight, I got to meet a crewman from the U-505 so that really got me going. I was building u-boats and destroyers out of legos for weeks after! I've been hooked ever since."

That's an interesting connection to spark an interest Will. Was it a one off encounter with the crewman?

Thanks for the recommendations, Geevee. I have noted these books for future reading.

I don't know a lot about what my grandfather went through there in Italy, and he passed away several years before I was born so I never got to talk with him either, of course, but did know he drove a truck and my grandmother said he wrote to her about how bad the mud was there, that their trucks kept getting stuck.

Yeah it was, Geevee. For me at least. My dad had met him (I don't remember how) and invited him over for dinner. They stayed up all night looking at his scrapbooks. They talked every now and then until the u-boater died. It was a fascinating experience, even if he was on the wrong side!

Yes a good tale Will. Not many Uboat survivors let alone one in the US.

Geevee wrote: "Will wrote: "When I was seven or eight, I got to meet a crewman from the U-505 so that really got me going. I was building u-boats and destroyers out of legos for weeks after! I've been hooked ever..."

Hi All. New to the group. Great group and looking forward to plenty of discussions here. I think my interest was sparked by two things. My Grandfather fought in the Somme in WWI, and although i never met him, i was fascinated. In terms of WWII i think John Toland's Book Hitler http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/65... started it all off for me. I found it in our school library and it just read like a novel he made it so real. From that day on i couldn't get enough on WWII. Have read as much as i can, but im more centered on the central figures in the running of the war such as Churchill, FDR, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini etc etc. and how the policy was set by these nations and followed. Just my thoughts.

Welcome David..you have found the BEST group site on the web....We have many knowledgable members who have wide and expansive comprehention of WW2.Our members are very generous in sharring their views and reading expertise-without being condescending. I was and would be lost without them.....welcome and carry on.

ditto on the welcome david. i recall when that book first came out there was a big todo about it. now when i visit the folks the 2 volume version is still on my dad's shelf.



David wrote: "Hi All. New to the group. "

ryan, a good topic. everyone's book has had me thinking and i thought of this book for me and i know it's rare, a story.



This is a classic picture book of WW2; great for the person who wants an overview of the war and also for the veteran history fan. First published in 1966, it is books like this that made the 720 photos, 92 in color, (as the dust jacket flap counts for us),
into familiar remembrances of the conflict.

Also a great remembrance and accomplishment, for me, was acquiring this book. There was a brand new mall with a brand new B. Dalton bookstore in the suburbs of St. Louis. Fellow teenage history and sports loving friends and I were enchanted by the leathery, old English library ambiance. During many visits, in which we rarely bought anything, we paged through the variety of books we longed for. It may have been the first dedicated bookstore I'd ever been in.

When I saw this book I really wanted it, though the $20.00 price was a lofty goal (adjusted for inflation today - $3000.00). I made from $1.50 to $3.00 for mowing a yard. With luck & rain I'd mow 2 or 3 yards a week. Making the money is difficult enough for a teenager, saving it is another with all the temptations at that age.

I was proud of my purchase and I relished looking at every photo and read every word, eventually dozens of times. Also being into model making, the color drawings of the airplanes from the various countries
showing all the markings and camouflage was particularly thrilling. And I still own the now well-worn book, mmmm I may just look through it now.


Ryan wrote: " This got me thinking about which book amongst all these got me started on my WWII kick..."

That's a cool story Carl :) I'm surprised by the B. Dalton bookstore reference though. I would surmise I'm quite a bit younger than you, but my memories of B. Dalton stores in malls were they were really small and didn't have that much of a selection compared to gigantic stores like Barnes & Noble. I would guess time and location/particular stores vary though. I have fond childhood memories of going to Barnes & Noble every time I visited my dad, and my uncle always gave us BN gift cards for Xmas. Greatest feeling ever to me as a kid was walking in with the gift card in my pocket knowing I had my pick of books in the monstrous store :)

My first Crusade In Europe--this co-incided with our local television broadcast of the series by the same name--now this was in the early 1960's and for a local station to broadcast a lenghtly series was immesuarable..

David wrote: "Hi All. New to the group. Great group and looking forward to plenty of discussions here..."

Hi David and welcome. Looking forward to sharing views on books and spotting those new titles.

If you're interested in the policy and strategic direction - and I accept its a bit dry but - have you tried the UK's Official History series?
The are 5 volumes on Foreign Policy (6 if you include an abridged volume) and six on Grand Strategy all published by HMSO.

The full listing is here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK...

Hi Geevee. Thanks for the welcome and for the heads up on Foreign Policy. hadn't seen that before so cheers. I know policy can be a bit dry to some, but i think its what drives the direction of any war. For example Stalin's policy was 'not a step back' and that drove the soviet war effort from Stalingrad. That's the kind of stuff im talking about when i say policy. Im looking forward to reading "Yalta" http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/71...

My pleasure and I'll be interested to read your views on Yalta too.

I have the Grand Strategy and Foreign Policy volumes but have not tackled them cover to cover merely dipping in to periods relating to certain events or in relation to points made in other volumes of the military or civil series.

Geevee wrote: "My pleasure and I'll be interested to read your views on Yalta too.

I have the Grand Strategy and Foreign Policy volumes but have not tackled them cover to cover merely dipping in to periods r..."
Sure Geevee, I'll be happy to post my views here. One thing i'm looking forward to though is to see how the author used the as described "newly declassified Soviet documents and unpublished diaries and letters of the participants..." in the book. Not sure when and where he got the access but i'm sure the book will reveal that.

Thanks Chrissy, glad you liked it. For some reason whenever i start a story i think 'about 10 yrs ago', then i go well, 20, then i keep adding as necessary for accuracy, more or less.

i also recall B Daltons being smaller stores in their later days. in the 60-70s (olden days) most of the dept stores had the equivalent of a book store in them and drugstores usually had a large paperback area also. so just taking a guess, chain bookstores weren't common.

you piqued my interest in the history of B. Dalton and looking about i found that the St Louis store was only their 2nd store. so i was unknowingly getting in on their early days. i read that they also had fancy things like parquet flooring and wide aisles, items i must have
attributed to English libraries hehe.

i know what you mean about giftcards, i still have one i got this year for Christmas to amazon, still relishing what to spend it on,
that's half the fun.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled WW2 content.


Chrissy wrote: "That's a cool story Carl :) I'm surprised by the B. Dalton bookstore reference though. I would surmise I'm quite a bit younger than you, but my memories of B. Dalton stores in malls were they were ..."

My interest was initially peaked in my early teens watching the Gwynne Dyer documentary "War" on TV. I can't remember if I saw all the episodes but the Bataan episode always stuck with me. I ended up spending 8 years in the Canadian military where the interest continued and both my grandfathers were in WWII (though unfortunately both died when I was little).
I can't remember the name of the first book I ever read (though I"m pretty sure it was about either Market Garden or Midway)...can't even remember the names of most of the books I've read. Went through a library kick about 6-7 years ago and read so many and didn't keep track except a few that really stuck with me.

Interesting overview Nicole, and there seem to be many of us here whose interest has been sparked or stoked by a relation/s experiences.

Sadly the veterans (and relations) are becoming fewer as time moves on but we do have a rich seam of first person accounts and the quality of writing and research - in my opinion - on a wide variety of WWII subjects for example such as politics, strategy, social/home front to battles, technology and food has never been higher.