Pulp Fiction discussion

I would say yes, she is. She has a street smart toughness and a cynicism that matches many noir types.

I think it could easily be argued that she is a noir character, though I've seen it argued that she is also a cyberpunk character (outside of the traditional cyberpunk milieu). Given that both genres share a lot of similarities, and overlap a great deal of the time, I think either designation is perfectly applicable.

I do believe Stieg Larsson intended the books to be a modern hard-boiled type novel; personally I don't think it worked as he intended but she does tick all the boxes for hard-boiled

Corruption and greed is the centre of many types of crime books, the books must be written much more hardboiled to be compared hardboiled or noir books.

Her world is more like CSI because it is that kind of crime thriller.

I agree that the book feels a bit more plot-driven than charcter driven, more crime thriller than hardboiled noir. Lisbeth is a tough character, and has much in common with the noir standards.

To me noir also has a quality of the world spinning out of the protagonists control, a lack of integration into the world (outsiderness). Again, as you all say, she checks those boxes.

But over all, you don't put the book down and say "Yeah! That was a great hardboiled read!"

Let's call it swedish noir.

Hello?

Bueller?

I disagree - fine the character might be noir, but every 20 pages I would think, 'Chandler could have done that in two sentences.' I love 30s and 40s pulp because it's tight. No one would have written a book as long as these. I only read Dragon Tat and I didn't like it because I found it unneseccarily long.

Richard wrote: "I agree that the book feels a bit more plot-driven than charcter driven, more crime thriller than hardboiled noir. Lisbeth is a tough character, and has much in common with the noir standards.

T..."

There are swedish noir and hardboiled PI and this isnt similar those. Salander sure is a noir character but her world isnt. A noirish character isnt enough.

Its about writing style. You know hardboiled style if you are reading a Hammett/Chandler or not in a Dan Brown/Grisham type novel.

I think the original question was whether she is a noir character outside a noir world. I don't think the book at all is noir. Like Mohammad said, it is more crime CSI type stuff, with some serious graphic violence thrown in. However,Lisbeth has some elements that make her gritty and tough-minded, but ultimately the book has no basis for being lumped in noir. She, however, might quality with some noir characteristics, although I only read the first book (sorry didn't care for it much, so I stopped right there after The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo).

Lisbeth Salander is a noir character. A MALE noir character. She's a loner, cynical, hard-hearted, and disillusioned. She is also the strong silent type who doesn't hesitate to use force to get what she wants/needs.

I am in agreement with Melki...epitomy of MALE noir.

does that make Mikael Blomkvist the femme fatale :P

Knowledge Lost wrote: "does that make Mikael Blomkvist the femme fatale :P"

But of course oh learned one...he even has a dame's sensibilities :-)

What I didn't get about Blomkvist is that the dames all flocked to him like he was James Bond or something...

Franky wrote: "What I didn't get about Blomkvist is that the dames all flocked to him like he was James Bond or something..."

**smiles**

Franky wrote: "What I didn't get about Blomkvist is that the dames all flocked to him like he was James Bond or something..."

He is Daniel Craig (oh wait thats not right) xD

He looks great in heels.

Franky wrote: "What I didn't get about Blomkvist is that the dames all flocked to him like he was James Bond or something..."

Simple. He is basically Stieg Larsson: a leftist journalist notorious for speaking truth to power. When writing a character who is essentially yourself, why not make him a chick magnet?

M.r. wrote: "pulpfanrandy wrote: "I'm having a hard time with this one. My first instinct was a "heck no!" ... But I agree something about Lisbeth's world just seems out of place for noir, and I am trying to be able to articulate it. "

Perhaps there's usually a femme fatal, and in Larson's books there isn't one. Blomkvist as femme fatal? I don't think so. Not even Joan Crawford in drag could make him one. :) How's that for an image?

And I might add that Nordic countries are far more enlightened when it comes to female empowerment. Hence, Lizbeth's attributes and social agenda seem perfectly normal to them, but cause discomfort to some men in the US and UK. Not all, I hasten to say. :)