Jane Austen discussion

So we live in the 21st century however I would like to be in the 19th century.
Who else believes in happy endings and the possibility of finding a Austenesque man?
Does anyone feel they have?
Want to still believe it is possible to marry a modern Austen man .... <3

I think the Austen men are very different from one another - Darcy is different from Tilney, Wentworth is different from Edward Ferrars, so I don't think it's a matter of the Austenesque man as much as the Austenesque marriage. The happily ever after - yet I think that all of them lived happily (though I sometimes have my doubts about Emma) - depends upon a compatibility that came out of the maturing of their acquaintance, shared values and, in some cases, exposure to the stresses of incompatibility as well as the benefits of a compatible union.
Elizabeth Bennet, for example, is exposed to the incompatible marriage of her parents, the loving marriage of the Gardiners, Charlottes expedient marriage and the marriage of Lydia and Wickham who come together because their "passions were stronger than their virtue". Marianne Dashwood felt a strong physical attraction to Willoughby and romanticized it, pretty much as Edmund Bertram was attracted to the unsuitable Mary Crawford, but eventually they realize that a lifelong marriage partner has to have something more than sex appeal - because, divorce was rarely obtainable.
In a society with values that are very different from those of Austen's time, it may be more difficult to have as compatible a marriage as we like to think Elizabeth and Darcy, Elinor and Edward, Anne and Wentworth had, but not impossible.

Thanks for that - very insiteful.
So do you personally think it is possible? ('..., but not impossible')

You have to remember that in Austen's writing, there was a strong link between marriage and money. First sons who were not well off - Wickham, Colonel Fitzwilliam, or the Ferrars brothers, whose fortune was left in the control of their mother - had to have some financial interest in marriage. It is observed by way of Charlotte Lucas' situation that, for a poor gentlewoman, marriage was the the only honorable provision and "best preservative from want". For a man of property, there was the additional interest in producing a legitimate heir.
Because these are not primary social considerations anymore, and because divorce is relatively easy and does not carry the same stigma, marriage is not what it was in Austen's novels. But certainly it's possible to find your "soul mate".

yes i know how important money and status was then.
thanks.
Well i am going to continue to believe that i will find my 'soul mate', 'mr right' and hope that there is some sort of Austen in him :)

I'd love to believe it's possible to marry an Austen man. No one should have to give up love for a chance at security (a la Charlotte Lucas). I'd like to think a patient, wise Colonel Brandon, who just happens to be financially secure, is waiting in the wings for each of us.

And to answer the question, has anyone found an Austen man: my significant other is part Mr. Knightley (always practical), part Captain Wenthworth (quite the grudge-holder), part Mr. Bennet (wicked sense of humor), and part Edward Ferrars (honorable to the point of stupidity). Despite all this, I love him!

Aww that's nice!! Glad you can see some Austen in him!

And I hope so too! 'waiting in the wings' great way of putting it. <3

I think it might be a mistake to ask this question. Not because I wouldn't like there to be positive answer, I would... but because I don't think "happily ever after" is a relevant life goal. Just the terms "ever after" and "happy ending" imply that there is nothing more to life once this occurs. There is no such thing and, IMO, you might as well be dead if you actually reach that goal.

I love Austen and I think the characters and situations she created have a lot of integrity when you consider social/relationship dynamics; however, they are still fiction and not designed to answer the question it seems that you really want to ask:

Is there a perfect someone for me?

Probably. I mean, no one is perfect, but it is likely that you will meet someone who is your match. Now, you will still have to put effort into it; even Austen heroines meet their mates through family, friends, or social events. If your family and friends are not reliable... you should probably pick some activit(y/ies) you enjoy and join some groups/clubs to increase your odds of running into that person.

My main point is, though, that even if you meet your personal Austen hero the "ever after" is where things start. The reason divorce rates are so high in the modern world is probably twofold: 1) it's easy to get one and 2) people have been too well sold on the idea of "happy ending" so they forget you must continue to nurture a relationship or it will just end. People do not stop growing and changing, or automatically grow and change in the same way, when they fall in love.

To sum up... yes, I think you can meet your perfect Austen hero at any point in time. BUT he will get older and go through things you cannot forsee and so will you. As life carries you along, you will have to deliberately make time for yourselves as a couple and as individuals. If you fail to do that, then he won't be your Austen hero forever, after all.

Thanks Manda. Very true! And I think that is what I meant really - about the perfect guy for each girl and your soul mate and just wrote that into a very cliched type of question.
I'm glad you think there is the right person out there but you have just gotta look and I agree that the ending where the Austen books end is only the beginning really - and that's why I wish the books could have carried on a bit as the bit after the 'happy ending' is defo the best bit!!!
Thanks again! This gives me hope... And I still have time to look ;) (I really am like Marianne Dashwood - thinking I'll never find love when I am still very young ;) )

The great think about Jane's HEA's is that they aren't unrealistic. In Pride & Prejudice for example, Mrs. Bennet stays silly, Lydia&Wickham go on spending too much and borrowing where they may, and Miss Bingley continues to be a bitch (please excuse my language, I have strong emotions towards the female Austen villians). Things aren't completely perfect for Elizabeth&Darcy, but often enough they're wonderful. I think a happily ever after is completely possible, you just have to be more of a Elizabeth than a Lydia/Miss Bingley in order to get it.

Thank you Karen and yes that is a great example! everyone doesn't change and become perfect etc which is more realistic :D
'I think a happily ever after is completely possible, you just have to be more of a Elizabeth than a Lydia/Miss Bingley in order to get it. '
Yay!! and besides, i would always try to be a Lizzie and not the villian or silly females - not mentioning the fact that they are the ones who get the guy ;)

I don't like the term "happily ever after" - as if all you have to do is find that perfect match and suddenly all your problems will disappear. Of course they're not going to - and a lot of the times they can create more problems than they solve.
Not that finding love is a bad thing - far from it. I just think, it's moving from one type of happiness to another, but neither is ever going to be perfect. Nothing ever is, is it?

unfortunatley nothing is perfect ...
and yes i suppose you need to move away from the love like Marianne and Willoughby and look for one like Marianne and Brandon :)

It would be true if it was between Mr. Knightley and Emma Woodhouse and Charles Bingley and Jane Bennet.

Yes I agree that they are the most findable as it were and possibly Tilney/Catherine too :)

I wouldn't know about that because I haven't seen it yet!

True ;) recommend it :D

I came across this great article today about "Marrying Up" or down - all in reference to Jane Austen and the Bennet sisters.

Enjoy! I think the writer's analysis of a modern Jane is pretty interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/co...

thanks :)

Yes, I do think it is possible to live happily ever after Jan Austen style. As a matter of fact I am counting on it. Men like the ones in Jane Austen's novels do exist, but they are few and far between. I do have a few friend's who married wonderful men like the Jane Austen men but I can count them on one hand. I think that our present society pushes sex so much that the soul to soul connection has been lost to many. In Jane Austen s books the hero falls very profoundly in love with the heroine before becoming bed partners. That is a soul to soul connection. Elizabeth Gaskell did that with John Thornton and Margaret Hale in North & South. What woman in her right mind would not want a John Thornton. How many men today truly fall in love with a woman prior to making love with her. That is what I am holding out for. I want a man to tell me that he loves me and really mean it before we even get physical. Some people say that is not realistic but that is what I want. I want to pierce a man's soul and for him to pierce mine. I want my Captain Wentworth; only he had better have a job on land. :-)

Xenia wrote: "Yes, I do think it is possible to live happily ever after Jan Austen style. As a matter of fact I am counting on it. Men like the ones in Jane Austen's novels do exist, but they are few and far b..."

yes! i am so glad! this gives me hope and what you say is utterly true!!! thank you very much!
and agree about he job on land for Wentworth!

Soph wrote: "Xenia wrote: "Yes, I do think it is possible to live happily ever after Jan Austen style. As a matter of fact I am counting on it. Men like the ones in Jane Austen's novels do exist, but they are..."

Soph, it is very possible for us to have this kind of love if we don't sell ourselves short and stay focused on what we truly want.

<3 :') very true!

I think it is a capital mistake to assume that the Austen men are all perfect paragons of love and that these couples lived "happily ever after" without any kind of difficulty or adjustment. Darcy is still going to be a moody sort of fellow, and marrying Lizzy won't cure that. Col. Brandon as well. Edward's mommy issues aren't going away just because he's managed to escape her iron apron strings. Knightley's arch and critical manner won't evaporate just because he's married.

People often find that the "fascinating character flaw" that attracted them to a mate becomes the "irritating habit" that drives them crazy afterward because they mistakenly believed that their love would cure it. Settling into a married life is hard work, and particularly so now, when men's and women's spheres overlap so much more than in Austen's time and we aren't separated by our assigned place and a phalanx of servants.

That being said, I think a happy marriage is possible, because I am living in one. He's not perfect and neither am I, but after 13 years we adore each other. Now, I had to do this twice to find such a thing, but I am living my happily ever after.

Gini wrote: "I think it is a capital mistake to assume that the Austen men are all perfect paragons of love and that these couples lived "happily ever after" without any kind of difficulty or adjustment. Darcy ..."

Hi Gini, Certainly no one is perfect (except me...lol). Anyhow....I don't think that anyone sees the Austen men as perfect or even cares that they aren't. Well, maybe I should just speak for myself. The draw to the Austen men for me is that they are gentlemen in the old school way. I love the way they court the woman they love. There is a true friendship that builds up first even though the hero is also romantically attracted to the heroine. The Austen men want to know the heroine. They want to get into her soul. I believe that building a deep friendship is an important key to a having a long lasting relationship into forever.

In the book Captain Wentworth's Diary I discover how the Captain fell in love with Anne. Yes, he found her pretty and wonderful to look at but as he grew to know her he found that they had lots in common. They talked about books, art, the sea, travel and all other aspects of life which drew them together so closely. They could talk for hours. Now don't get me wrong. I want a handsome and sexy guy too, but there is nothing like being able to talk with a man for hours about anything and everything. That is great foreplay...lol.

I think that Lizzy opened Mr. Darcy's eyes to his prideful and moody ways and that he did change to a significant degree. I don't see him as unchanged at all. Lizzy made him want to be a better person and if he did not change Lizzy would not have fallen in love with him. I think that surely Mr. Darcy would spend much less time being moody and prideful after their marriage.

"Changed" is not the same as "cured." Darcy is still going to have his black, moody moments. Thinking that won't happen leads to heartache and disenchantment.

Gina!! I am so glad for you!! It gives me hope!! And I know noone is perfect and quite frankly, if they were it would be boring!!

Xenia , I agree. I think that is why I like the Austen men (the old fashioned ways of love and courting) and the fact that they aren't the ideal, as no one of them are perfect!! This makes it all the more real. I would love to find someone I could just talk and talk with...

I agree Gina, I don't think they will be cured, but they will have improved in their faults and changed. Otherwise, for example as Xenia said, Lizzy wouldn't have fallen for Darcy in the end (as I say it was NOT just the site of his property which changed her mind, as some say! ;) )

Can change also mean cured sometimes? Like you used to do something or was a certain way but now you don't anymore so you are cured?...LOL

Anyway, I never got the idea in the book or in any of the film adaptations that Mr. Darcy had black moods. He was prideful and put a lot of stock in social ranking; a little bit of a snob. I would even say he was a bit obnoxious at times but not into having black moods. That, to me, is a horse of a whole different color; so there was nothing to "cure", necessarily. What Lizzy changed was his point of view of life and love. He was able to relax, love her more freely and really enjoy life to the fullest.

Yes I agree. He was more proud and snobby and also shy., never really bad or mean etc :)

Sandi wrote: "I'd love to believe it's possible to marry an Austen man. No one should have to give up love for a chance at security (a la Charlotte Lucas). I'd like to think a patient, wise Colonel Brandon, wh..."

Yes! I can't help hoping that my Colonel Brandon is waiting not too far away. Is that too hopelessly romantic? Personally, Brandon is definitely my favorite Austen man.

But does anyone else think that in today's world, finding an "Austen man" can be harder than we think?

Xenia wrote: "Gini wrote: "I think it is a capital mistake to assume that the Austen men are all perfect paragons of love and that these couples lived "happily ever after" without any kind of difficulty or adjus..."

I absolutely agree with everything that you said. :) I think that it is also wonderful how often Austen men are prepared to do anything to make their love happy - even if that involves having to watch their love with another man.

Take Colonel Brandon with Marianne - when he thought he had lost her to Willoughby, he did not blame her, and still wished her all imaginable happiness, though he knew what kind of man she was going to be with. And then, when Willoughby abandoned her, Brandon was there for her all the way - even if she didn't notice.

Colonel Brandon is a fabulous man. I've known at least two Colonel Brandon's in my life but let them both get away in my silly youth. I simply was not ready to appreciate these men even though that is what I always wanted. I do hope that each ended up with a woman who loves them they way they deserve.

I have observed other women with Colonel Brandon type men. Some of the women appreciated them and others didn't. Austen men are out there so the question to me is not if they exist but when you meet one will you appreciate him.

Well put Xenia!

And Becca, I hope so too because I am a hopeless romantic!! I am sure they must be out there so long as we can find them!! I haven't given up hope quite yet (I really am like Marianne and despairing of happiness at 16! ;) )

Soph wrote: "Well put Xenia!

And Becca, I hope so too because I am a hopeless romantic!! I am sure they must be out there so long as we can find them!! I haven't given up hope quite yet (I really am like Maria..."

No, we shouldn't give up hope. But as you say, I am very impatient :).

I am very impatient to, hence why this side of me is like Marianne!
No. We won't give up hope Becca!! :D

I very much believe in happy endings. (I am a hopeless romantic at heart) However, I think happily ever after is an on going process. once you find your perfect match the true work begins. I married a Mr. Darcy. He's a little arrogant and cocky at first glance, and has a tendency to think he is never wrong. when you get past that you find out he has a heart of gold and would do anything for those he cares about.

Kara wrote: "I very much believe in happy endings. (I am a hopeless romantic at heart) However, I think happily ever after is an on going process. once you find your perfect match the true work begins. I marrie..."

:) Welcome to the club of hopeless romantics!

I am so glad you believe in them! And have had one!! Married your Darcy - lucky!! So happy for you! Hope I do!
It is very much an ongoing thing! You have to work to make it work! :) for all good things in life you have to work :)

I am a HOPELESS romantic too!!

Yes, it will last. A strong love like theirs is the most healthy love I've ever seen. It will last forever!!!

Kara wrote: "I very much believe in happy endings. (I am a hopeless romantic at heart) However, I think happily ever after is an on going process. once you find your perfect match the true work begins. I marrie..."

Kara,
I too married a Darcy. They may be the hardest to detect because in the beginning they may not appear to be the "perfect" man. I also agree about finding your match being just the beginning. It then takes a lot of work to get the "happily ever after" but it is possible. I have almost 23 years experience with my Darcy :-)

I so want to be able to say 'I married my mr Darcy'
You are so lucky! I hope I have your good fortune!

Just wanted to mention that one modern-day Janeite that did not work for me was the one in "Lost In Austen." It disappointed me.

Shelley, Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com

Yeah... With you there!!

In Austen's world, I think it is possible ;)

No man is going to be something exactly out of Austen, but I also can guarantee that I found exactly the kind of man I was looking for. If you are looking for someone overtly romantic, effusive, able to make fine speeches, that guy may likely turn out to be a Willoughby; but if you're looking for someone with qualities like loyalty, honesty, strong values, selflessness, and genuine love, then I can vouch that they are hard to find but do exist if you stay true to what you want for yourself and remain open-minded. Plus, my bf will even humor me and go for high tea with me and has sat through a few Austen films :) So hope is not lost!!

I think this depends on your definition of happily ever after and how much effort you are willing to put in to your relationship to achieve that. My husband is not a Darcy (thank Heaven!), we've been happily married for 7 years and I consider him my soul mate. But relationships aren't like books, life is not an Austen novel, we both make a conscious and unconscious effort to achieve that happiness.

i believe happily ever after is not the ending of the story .it only means that this couple completes each cter and they just begin to live...I feel certain that love between them will not remain the same ... love changes but it does not fade after marriage ,for example we all know that the charm in the story of lizzie and darcy was in the awkward moments that passed between them those moments when u feel your heart pulse augmenting, but after marriage there wont be any shyness anymore, and their love would be different but by no means weaker ...
now as to these ends exist or not i would say that i really wish for it to be true and i cant hide that this is what i hope for, because i dont want a normal boring life ... i've met a willoughby, just as i was looking for my austen man and he seemed to have escaped from an austen book ! chaming and witty and all, but then hey it's a willoughby after all.. we are not looking for a man without fault , but we are looking for someone who's faults start our story ,cuz to be honest some faults are charming like the pride of mr darcy or the secrecy of the count of monte cristo

Dia wrote: "i believe happily ever after is not the ending of the story .it only means that this couple completes each cter and they just begin to live...I feel certain that love between them will not remain t..."

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