Brain Pain discussion

Discussion Schedule


Week of:

April 23, 2012 – Part One: April Seventh, 1928 – pp. 3-75

April 30, 2012 – Part Two: June Second, 1910 - pp. 76-179

May 7, 2012 – Part Three: April Sixth, 1928 - pp.180-264

May 14, 2012 – Part Four: April Eighth, 1928 - pp. 265-321

May 21, 2012 – Conclusions/Book as a Whole


Page numbers refer to the Vintage International edition, Oct. 1990: The Sound and the Fury

Parts one through four are sometimes referred to by the names of the characters:

1. The “Benjy” section
2. The “Quentin” section
3. The “Jason” section
4. The “Dilsey” section

As mentioned elsewhere, to avoid spoilers, please be sure to observe the pages listed for the weekly threads and refrain from commenting beyond the highest page number posted.

IMPORTANT: These discussion threads will remain open indefinitely. If you find yourself behind in the reading or if you have joined the group after the dates listed above, go ahead and read at your own pace and discuss when you want. The moderator and other members will gladly join in!


Questions, Resources, and General Banter

Feel free to post questions and links to resources in this thread.

Also, if you’ve written a review of the book, please post a link to share with the group.

Benjy say is nice. Benjy think Jim Good Man. Benjy say Jim Clever Man. So pretty picture. Of old man with beard. Also clever man, that.

Traveller wrote: "Benjy say is nice. Benjy think Jim Good Man. Benjy say Jim Clever Man. So pretty picture. Of old man with beard. Also clever man, that."

I read the Benjy section yesterday. Just as marvelous as I remembered!

Yes, Benjy is fun. I haven't read far yet,(I'd never read the book before) but I have a good idea of him by now. :)

Traveller wrote: "Benjy say is nice. Benjy think Jim Good Man. Benjy say Jim Clever Man. So pretty picture. Of old man with beard. Also clever man, that."

HA!!

Traveller wrote: "Benjy say is nice. Benjy think Jim Good Man. Benjy say Jim Clever Man. So pretty picture. Of old man with beard. Also clever man, that."

Love it. Looking forward to this one!

I'm on board for this one.

Glad to hear you're all into it.

BTW, fair warning to those of you who haven't read it before. Faulkner's characters use the n-word quite liberally. I was thinking about this earlier this week when I read that there is some activity in Italy to have Dante removed from public school curricula for being anti-islamic.

I don't know if you've seen this already, but: http://gothamist.com/2011/01/07/hipst...

So the question becomes with what word shall we Find and Replace in Faulkner?

Will wrote: "I don't know if you've seen this already, but: http://gothamist.com/2011/01/07/hipst...

So the question becomes with what word shall we Find and Replace in Faulkner?"

Hipster! I'm sorry I brought it up! LOL!!!

Let's just trust that each member will search and replace as they see fittin'...

Your use of the pejorative term 'hipster' is offensive to those of us who are just so much cooler than you.

This reminds me of high school, where the copy of "Barn Burning" that we read substituted the word 'negro'. Even then I wasn't buying that 30's white trash Mississippians would use that term. (Apologies for any offense; let me assure you that some of my best friends are white trash.)

Whitney wrote: "Your use of the pejorative term 'hipster' is offensive to those of us who are just so much cooler than you.

This reminds me of high school, where the copy of "Barn Burning" that we read substitute..."

I'm hanging my head in shame and weeping into my pocket protector for offending all that is "hip".

Since I was foolish enough to open this can'o'worms, here's some history and etymology from our friends at wicked-pedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

From Wikipedia: The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black".

Interesting that according to them, the word started off as a neutral, non-offensive word. Not sure how long it stayed that way... :P

...and if you think about it, actually the word itself isn't offensive, I mean, it's not inherently offensive like 'turd' would be, for instance. I guess it's the context that developed around it, that had it eventually devolve into it being used in a denigrating context.

Traveller wrote: "...and if you think about it, actually the word itself isn't offensive, I mean, it's not inherently offensive like 'turd' would be, for instance. I guess it's the context that developed around it,..."

Unfortunately, the word is offensive because of the history it represents. Centuries of slavery and violent racism in the U.S. are concentrated into this word in ways that cannot be erased nor denied no matter what the context.

I was a witness to the racial violence of the 1960's in the New York area and saw friends, family, and neighbors injured, scared, and spewing language from nightmares. That word was hissed like venom from a snake and was wrapped in hatred every time I heard it.

I would like to believe that in some idyllic future, it will lose its power, but right now, in 2012, a 17-year-old boy in Florida is dead, shot by a rent-a-cop under the influence of that word.

I mention this because, even though we are reading fiction from another era, it is inherently offensive in what it represents. I hope that each member will keep in mind the power of that word and remember to be respectful of the memory of all the evil - past and present - that it represents.

Jim wrote: "Unfortunately, the word is offensive because of the history it represents. Centuries of slavery and violent racism in the U.S. are concentrated into this word in ways that cannot be erased nor denied no matter what the context.
.."

Oh, of course - that's what I was saying.. that the word in itself and by itself means only black, but that the hateful context it's been used in - as a word of hatred and disdain, has made it into a "bad" word.

So, yes - using it cannot, sadly be devoid of this nasty context, and it should be avoided because it has "accumulated" a nasty and regrettable connotation through misuse of the word.

I never meant to imply that the word can ever again be used innocently, without regard to the sad history it is now connotated to.

EDIT: ..and I think it is a good thing if the word is censored out of classic literature. I do think that for instance Joseph Conrad used it in it's "innocent" sense, and that to avoid offense to readers reading his works slightly more than a century later, this word should be censored out of his works. I have a feeling he would have wanted that himself, were he to live in our present day.

I don't know, 'The Hipster of the Narcissus' is just too redundant.

Whitney wrote: "I don't know, 'The Hipster of the Narcissus' is just too redundant."

lololol.

Yes, but there is another title which works quite nicely, used for the American edition of the book you mention: "Children of the Sea." ..and instead of "hipster" they could simply call him "man" or then "black man" if the latter distinction is really called for in particular cases.

No, seriously. It bothers me that no one has bothered to do this.

At least someone has bothered with the Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens book, I think the hipster thing is quite cute there.

Whitney wrote: "I don't know, 'The Hipster of the Narcissus' is just too redundant."

Ha!!

So this is almost due... I need to mark all these discussions on my calender...

I have this horrible debate in my head, and it's horrible because I'm white: on the one hand, the n-word has been reclaimed by black people and I do believe that we non-black people aren't allowed to use it. But on the other hand, here's Louis CK, the foremost philosopher of our time. He's right: if you say "the n-word," you make me think "nigger" in my head.

Ugh.

I think when we're talking about books that use the word, we use the word when we talk about the book. That's as far as I can get.

Alex wrote: "I think when we're talking about books that use the word, we use the word when we talk about the book. That's as far as I can get..."

That's as far as you need to go. It's in the book, it's part of Faulkner's world, and we're all mature enough to discuss it in this literary context without having to feel like we're committing a crime.

BTW, I used to get latté's in that same café...

Link to my review here:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

And here's a link to my review:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...