Classics for Beginners discussion

I have noticed from some of my reading that the dialogue has accents and dialect written into it, for example in Lady Chatterley's Lover. What do people think of this? Is it great? Do you find it hard to read? Does it compare to modern use of dialogue/accents?

Well if you read Thomas Hardy's work you'll notice the accents are written in too.

I like it when an accent is well written so that you can understand which location the speaker is from. I don't like accents which are confusing and don't provide much direction or understanding to reading. For instance I found in The Grapes of Wrath that some of the accents proved distracting from the meaning of words.

I find dialect to be culturally important, and also essential. The incredible use of it in Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn are what make the book so incredible. Another good example is Ethan Frome, by Edith Wharton. Wharton did her best to capture New England society and used Western Massachusetts dialect to help demonstrate the lifestyle of the industrially undeveloped culture. Reading it is confusing at first, but I can get past it.

The one time the use of accents and dialect really got to me was when I was reading Wuthering Heights. Brontë made the book almost unreadable every time Joseph said something.

Here's a notable passage: 'Maister, coom hither! Miss Cathy's riven th' back off 'Th' Helmet uh Salvation,' un' Heathcliff's pawsed his fit intuh t' first part uh 'T' Brooad Way to Destruction!' It's fair flaysome ut yuh let 'em goa on this gait. Ech! th' owd man ud uh laced 'em properly -- bud he's goan!'

The halt in my otherwise swift reading bothered me.

I like it so long as it's done in a way that gives the feel and cadence of speech only rather than an attempt to capture every nuance.

I generally really enjoy accents in everything, so long as I can understand it. I personally have a really hard time reading the southern U.S. dialects. I haven't made it through "Tom Sawyer" or "Huckleberry Finn" because of this, I keep on having to ask other people to make sure I'm understanding what the characters are saying. It's especially bad for me when apparently one word (in a nonstandard spelling of course) has five different meanings, a couple in the same paragraph. Eventually I'll get through it and get into the dialect, but it's going to take a while. I think part of it depends on what accents you've been exposed to before, and the more exposure the easier it gets. I've read more british lit than american southern lit, so I find it much easier to read.

Part of it could also depend on how your grammar works. If a dialect cuts off the back end of a word, like black english, I have a much harder time than if the front half of the word is cut off in some way. It's not impossible, but it is harder. And if there are two many missing letters, I may not understand it at all. I read "The Red Badge of Courage" twice in a row, and I still had no idea what happened.

I think it mostly just depends on the person.

Jennifer, your point about the importance of what accents you've been exposed to is interesting. For instance, because I'm from Louisiana southern speech in books is either normal for me or nearly so (depending on how over the top it goes). But the sort of passage Clinton posted is nearly impossible for me; I can either read it fast and get the rhythm but no sense at all or read it slow and understand it but not hear it.

Jennifer, you're helping me to understand, perhaps, WHY I'm having such a difficult time with Great Expectations right now. It may not be the story, but the accents. (Unrelated to classic literature, I had to give up Stephen King books because I couldn't always get past the New England accents.)

While I have certainly shared the frustrations many of you have expressed, to me, the accents/dialect are what make so many works special. I am thinking of King's Dolores Claiborne where you could literally "hear" her thick Maine accent on the page. Or Alexander McCall Smith's No 1 Ladies Detective Agency series which is written in that lovely lilting Botswana dialect. On the other hand, I had to struggle to understand Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston - though once I just "went with the flow" I really appreciated her use of dialect in the novel.

I completely agree that accents/dialect CAN BE part of what makes a work so special. But, someone's ability to enjoy that special book may be hampered depending on their exposure to that accent. For instance, I have a difficult time understanding British accents. Couple that (in Great Expectations) with the use of words that aren't commonly used anymore, and I don't understand what the character is supposed to be saying. That takes some of the fun out of it for me...

Edited to ask for someone to please translate this wonderful passage, which is supposed to be a very young Pip writing something to Joe. I can't decipher it...

(view spoiler)[“MI DEER JO i OPE U R KR WITE WELL i OPE i SHAL SON B HABELL 4 2 TEEDGE U JO AN THEN WE SHORL B SO GLODD AN WEN i M PRENGTD 2 U JO WOT LARX AN BLEVE ME INF XN PIP.” (hide spoiler)]

Sunny,

(view spoiler)[My dear Joe, I hope you're quite well. I hope I shall soon be able for to teach you, Joe, and then we shall be so glad, and when I'm apprenticed to you, Joe, what larks, and believe me [not sure what inf xn is--edit: looked it up and someone suggested "in affection" which seems right]. (hide spoiler)]

Michael, that's awesome! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

My pleasure. It was larks.

Currently reading Wuthering Heights and find it increasingly hard to understand Joseph.

I don't mind it at all, half of the fun is getting used to a character's speech. It adds to my depth of feeling for a character.

I don't mind it either just sometimes I can read over and over and it just doesn't click. You'd think I would have a slight advantage as I was born in Yorkshire and live right next to it and go there all the time. Most don't have that strong an accent these days especially in the cities. It's more of a country thing.

Accents are essential to the characters. Sure it would be easier to read most without the accents but it would not be realistic to have every character from every region in every era all speak the same.

One work that stands out to me when it comes to accents is the Uncle Remus tales. The accents used by the narrator and characters in these stories are so essential and an endearing part of the stories

I agree with Kenneth; it's what makes all of the different characters unique.

I love accents/dialect in a book, although they can sometimes be distracting, but usually I can manage to 'tune in' after a while. My favourite accent is the American South, even if I try not to I end up reading the whole book hearing it in the accent - gorgeous! Perhaps we can all help each other out when we're stuck with something - I enjoyed the translation of Great Expectations - good fun! I got stuck on that last bit too! I'm British & started life with a Geordie accent & then grew up in the Midlands & have lived most of my adult life in South Wales, so I can cope with most Brit accents & dialect! Where is everyone from, and what are your favourite accents?

Chatterjak I am from Connecticut USA and I just love an English accent both n real life and books. I read a lot of English Lit and Dickens is my favorite!

Dialects and slang - I am sure that in a classroom somewhere there is a teacher that is wondering what the hell her students are saying or talking about.

Well then Kenneth, we're both from the North East, just different countries & continents! I really enjoy different accents, I love the complexity of language. Some of the slang in Dickens has stumped me at times I have to admit! All part of the fun though!

& Joseph when I first started school at 4, none of the teachers understood a word I said because I had such a broad Geordie (North East) accent & we'd just moved to the Midlands!

Chatterjak wrote: "I love accents/dialect in a book, although they can sometimes be distracting, but usually I can manage to 'tune in' after a while. My favorite accent is the American South, even if I try not to I ..."

I'm from Brooklyn. Many people immigrated from all over since I was a kid. I my favorite accent would depend by who is speaking it. (I have a soft spot for Spanish.)

In college in I had learn to understand my professors most of whom English was not their first language.

As a young student (High School and lower) we would create phrases and switch parts of speech. Not everyone listening especially if they were outside the circle would understand what we were talking about.

Dickens comes to mind.

Ah, good old school yard traditions eh? I'd completely forgotten my best friend at school & I used to joke we had a language of our own - because we spent so much time together it was a bit like that - even the other kids couldn't follow us! I I don't suppose pig-Latin still exists now does it?

Older people can't keep up with popular culture that kids are into and they get left out of the loop.

I would bet wikipedia has something on pig Latin

I bet they do Joseph. I've found a lot of useful stuff on Wikipedia.

Chatterjak I'm a Canadian and I find that in Canada, we have less of a regional diversity in accents. I was told that our accents' similar to those from Michigan...? Any non-Canadians with thoughts on the Canadian accent?

I do think the huge diversity of accents in the uk is astounding. I live in Lancashire so most people speak quite low pitched and kind of in monotone. If you go about 10 miles in any direction the accent changes enough to notice. Going to uni where people come from all over the country and many from other countries it's so diverse. When family visit from Scotland (Glasgow) I cannot understand what they are saying. It was about 10pm and my cousin asked "do you want some Jews?" And I thought what on earth are you talking about. It turned out she was asking if I wanted "juice" and I thought why on earth would I want juice (I take it to mean fresh orange/apple/cranberry juice etc). Of course I said no and she cam back in with a glass of coca cola! Apparently juice in Glasgow is what I would call "pop" and I guess what Americans might call "soda". (I don't like coca cola anyway so I didn't lose out).

Also recently read Wuthering Height and I find it so difficult to understand Joseph I tend to skip his parts especially if they are long.

Accents are one of the reason I like listening to some books instead of just reading them. In some situations, the accents are very important.