SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Yesterday I was reading a blurb for a book, and I thought that, while sort of generic, it sounded vaguely up my alley...

That was until I came across the part about the protagonist being part of a 4000 year old prophecy, or something to that effect.

So I was curious as to what other common plot-elements others might see in blurbs which are sort of instant turn offs.

For me there's the person of prophecy/destiny*. Also, any inference of a love triangle generally turns me off... and, really, any book with a female protagonist that goes something like "but then she met X bad-boy type person". Similarly any time when someone who feels like an outsider finds out that, hey, they're actually from another realm/planet/whatever. (Have you ever noticed in books that no one can just be weird without having some sort of alternate bloodline excuse for it?)

Which isn't to say I always pass on those books. Sometimes there are elements of the story/blurb, which grab my attention despite having some kiss of death aspect to them (and I do have a weakness for things fae)... but they do make me wary.

So, share. What plot elements are turn-offs for you, as a reader?


* I am aware of the irony of the fact that while I am wearing of chosen one type stories, especially with orphans, my favorite series of all time is mostly just that.

I'll go with the love triangle or the "until she met soandso" ones.

I don't mind an occasional "chosen one" story now and then, but it does get old really fast.

Also anything where someone from "our world" is transported to a fantasy realm. I hate those. Hate.

I don't mind an occasional "chosen one" story now and then, but it does get old really fast.Also anything where someone from "our world" is transported to a fantasy realm. I hate those. Hate.

Then never read The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever. Awful awful book.

Any deus ex machina resolutions, Terry Goodkind is bad about that.

Fan fiction, Star Wars or Star Trek, is huge turn off.

Any pandering, unless its done with style like Ready Player One, in which case Ill let it slide.

Arthurian fantasy. I know there are other things I don't care for, but that's the main one that jumps to mind right now.

@Robert - I'm with you on the fan fiction and extended universe stuff. That said, I have been tempted to pick up the Firefly comics.


@Sid - I'm with you there, too. I don't know if it's 'cause there are so many, or just 'cause I'd read a lot when I was younger, but now almost any mention of Arthur and it's insta-pass. (I did really like the Merlin TV mini-series, though.)

Hehe. I LOVE books where someone from "our world" is transported to Fantasyland. Fodder for my own wistful thinking, I suppose.

I tend to dislike books with a lot of court politics/political maneuvering, so if such a thing is referred to on the jacket I'll likely pass it over. I also am not a huge fan of the "innocent person is wrongly accused of xxx crime and now must prove his innocence before the guards find him" plot device, though depending on the author/series/various other elements it might not be a dealbreaker for me.

Gratuitous gore and violence are repellent, and if it's too X rated I probably am not there for you. I don't do extended-universe and fan fic, and furries do nothing for me. But the biggest turn-off, the close-the-book-and-walk-away moment, is when I get the sense that the author is insulting my intelligence. It just cannot be too dumb, and I speak as a reader of comic books, so my bar is not high. If it's a doltish situation, or the characters act like morons, I'm out.

I do hate stupid characters - especially when they're supposed to be really smart.

I don't like the love triangle thing in addition to most of what Brenda said. Mostly I want a happy ending, something fun and usually light. I want escapism not horrible reality beating me over the head.

It's the gratuitous bit that's important. You can perfectly well have sex 'n' vi that is necessary to plot and character; it is hard to imagine A CLOCKWORK ORANGE working properly without it, for instance.
In writer circles there is a term for dumbass characters. These are idiot plots, in which the plot only holds together because the characters are acting like idiots. All those romances where you want to scream, "Just TALK to her! -Tell- her about your first wife in the attic, or your long-lost dukedom!" But if he actually did, the book would end on page 14.

I wish there was a way to know whether or not a book was going to be an idiot plot based on the blurb. Save me a lot of time and effort. LOL

I probably should be more picky than I am. But I hate reading books, usually young adult, where the child or teen character is so much smarter than all the adults, in a I know you've been working on this for fifty years but in two minutes I've got it all figured out way. I'm not a sports fan so I avoid almost all things sports related. Ugh, banking. Hate banking. Was tempted to stop reading Girl With the Dragon Tattoo for this reason. Politics, get enough of that at home. And that's all I can think of right now. I'm pretty open.

Yeah - when if the characters would communicate properly, most of their problems would go away, but they won't communicate properly - that annoys me too.

Didn't read Girl w/the Dragon Tattoo but saw the movie. I just don't like such bad things happening to people. Granted she got him back pretty thoroughly, which I appreciated, but horrible things happen every day to people and when I read (or watch a movie), I don't want it to be slapped in my face. And then it didn't have a happy ending! It was an ok one but not happy! I still felt bad for her. So now I can't bring myself to read it.

Totally agree Sid, you just want to smack them.

Caron, there are three books. I've read the second and liked it more than the first (less banking more girl with the tattoo) but haven't read the third so don't know about the end.

Well, I thought it a really cool idea and overall liked the movie except for those couple of things I mentioned. But those things are why I'll never read it and never watch the movie again.

I forgot a big one I try to avoid. Ships and sea adventures. Not sure why. Maybe because I hate Moby Dick, or did I hate it because I hate sea adventures? There are exceptions. But not many. Still going to try The Terror though.

So you hated Titanic lol

No, actually like Titanic. And Jaws is one of my absolute favorite movies. If the story happens to take place on the sea I'm good. But if the whole point is the sea, like A Perfect Storm and Moby Dick, I'm lost. It's how technical the book is.

What that says to me is that you just haven't yet read the -right- sea adventure yet. You could pick up CAPTAIN HORATIO HORNBLOWER and see how it goes down. If you don't like that, you're definitely immune. And then you will know to avoid TEMERAIRE, and possibly Star Trek, and many other works.

Also Patrick O'Brian.

Alice wrote: "Books where the only people disagreeing with or disliking the main character are very stupid/unlikeable. Especially if the main character is a self-insertion of the author."

I think I might know an example of which you speak. ;)

(I'm staying mum on it, though.)

For me that one goes along with Traci's earlier comment about kid's books in which the adults are stupid. I mean, I know the kid has to be a hero in a kid's book and all, but I hate it when the adults are entirely useless.

I preferentially read ebooks, and there's a pretty big selection of free or discounted titles at any given time. you occasionally find a gem amongst the mud, but that requires looking skimming a whole lot of book blurbs.

YES the love triangle bit drives me straight up the wall. something else in that blurb has to be pretty amazing to get me past any insinuation of "but how will she choose between them?"

the real "kiss of death" for me, though? tell me your protagonist is a teenager right up there in the first sentence. I've read and enjoyed plenty of YA books, but if the blurb's intro sentence goes anything like, "seventeen year old martinka always thought she was an average girl," I'm outta there. reciting the factual data right up front like a D&D character sheet indicates the author is unable to "show" and has to rely on "tell."

also, what's up with crazy names in all the "chosen one" stories lately?

Aren't crazy names ones of the rules for detecting a Mary Sue/ Gary Stu?

Brenda wrote: "What that says to me is that you just haven't yet read the -right- sea adventure yet. You could pick up CAPTAIN HORATIO HORNBLOWER and see how it goes down. If you don't like that, you're definit..."

I might read that as a test. Lol. Thinking of the sea books I hate I think they have another thing in common. Fishing and whaling. Which I don't consider Jaws to fall under.

I'm not keen on love triangles, or what I think of as "Empire stories". Eg. "She is x rank of y Empire. He is z rank of b kingdom. blah blah blah sweeping saga..."

My biggest turnoffs for a book are ones where the main character (usually a teen, but not always) find out they have some kind of 'special-ishness' (that's a technical term :), about them that the whole plot devolves around. You know, the half-blood fae/dragon/vampire/demon/exorcist/etc., or the one that hits a magic age which releases all their powers, and they are all unknowing that this is going to happen to them...

Or the books where a strange boy/man moves into town and the strange attraction...(ok, these are usually YA books, following the Twilight trend.)

Or the ones in which the 'bad guy' is described as some kind of formless evil being that will consume the whole world, if our hero and sidekicks don't manage to triumph.
Ack! If you can't describe the bad thing/person any better than that, it tells me what the rest of your writing is like. That's pretty much a deal breaker for me.

Well FWIW I read MOBY DICK once, and didn't enjoy it. I suppose somewhere there is a good whaling novel. Haven't found it yet. (Although CAPTAINS COURAGEOUS is excellent, but they are fishing for cod.)

The technical term for what people seem to be describing is Extruded Fantasy Product. Yet again the young hero discovers his/her Destiny as the Savior of (difficult-to-pronounce fantasy world here), etc. etc. EFP is to real fantasy as canned cheese whizz is to cheese.

They only good whaling book would would have to involve aliens. Moby Dick was as deep as it was dull.

Robert wrote: "They only good whaling book would would have to involve aliens. Moby Dick was as deep as it was dull."

Then you may want to check out Gregory Benford's novel AGAINST INFINITY. Human colonists and their cyborg'd animal companions on Ganymede on the hunt for a roving alien artifact they call the Aleph. It really struck me as MOBY DICK...IN SPAAACE! However, Benford himself said he had Wm Faulkner's THE BEAR in mind as he was writing it.

I know that cover copy isn't the most reliable guide to a book's quality, but my eyes rapidly glaze over when the blurbs start breathlessly laying out an overly intricate world - Human and fae living and warring side by side! Ether ships sailing the void between worlds! A world-blasting menace from an unknown dimension! Intricate dynastic politics! - and all that before any characters are mentioned by name or what adventures may befall them are hinted at.
I can't single out any particular books like that (I just put them down and forget about them), but I know 'em when I see 'em.

Speaking of that reminds me of another turn off, badly photoshoped cover art, science fiction seems the worst offender especially when they use digital art. Good example Mech 3: The Empress.

I'm not big into political intrigue. I'll tolerate it if there's enough other things that interest me, but it's one of the main reasons I haven't touched A Song of Ice and Fire. It just sounds like it's mostly just intrigue and political maneuvering.

I also don't prefer fantasy that seems more medieval than fantastic (see again: ASOIAF). I don't need elves and goblins and demons everywhere, but I need something significant.

Another pet peeve: books or stories where the author rushes to establish the author's full name in the first sentence where they appear. It gets worse when they start packing in more info, like job titles and physical appearance. (David Weber is kind of bad about this.)

"Lieutenant Commander Peter Holmes of the Royal Australian Navy woke soon after dawn." (On the Beach)

"Molly Doyle was putting a lot of faith in the power of positive thinking as she set the CLOSED sign in the front window." (Deadly Vintage)

"Goldie Roth hated the punishment chains." (Museum of Thieves. You lot be quiet, it's a middle grade book and not nearly as perverse as that sounds out of context. ;)

"Brys Tarnell was not a pious man." (The River Kings' Road)

I know those aren't particularly egregious, but most of the ones that were, I declined to read and/or tried to forget. >.>

Ah, the name, rank and serial number approach to character description. Definitely not the best avenue.

Punishment chains you say?

>.>

I had you at "punishment," didn't I?

I dare you to read it. >.> You will surely not be disappointed by this titillating story of a semi-dystopian society that is trying to keep everyone safe at all costs! Trust me.

P.S. I'm lying. It's not titillating. (And if you're not into YA and younger books you probably won't care for this one either.)

Aw. I was hoping for something different to read.

Bondage and YA, the next trend.

Interestingly, John M Ford's novel THE LAST HOT TIME, (small town boy on the elven- and magic-haunted streets of Chicago) has a romance-with-bondage subplot that's discreetly painted. And for some reason I thought it was a YA book. Something about its length and the cover art, maybe? It came out in 2001, before Harry Potter required YA titles to be the size of phone books.

Well, it is a coming of age story. (And an excellent book.) I don't think it was written for even the older YA audience, but I could see it being marketed that way. A few books written for adults have been put back into print and re-marketed for the YA demographic. Caroline Stevermer springs to mind, but there are probably other examples.

People should know that back-cover copy is usually farmed out; I have had books where the copy was written by somebody who had never even SEEN the ms. It would have helped if they had been able to hold the wad of typescript to their forehead, but no.
The trick, for the author, is to shuffle those standard old playing cards into a new and thrilling configuration. It is not easy; when it is done well it is an amazing thrill.

- I'm not big into political intrigue. I'll tolerate it if there's enough other things that interest me, but it's one of the main reasons I haven't touched A Song of Ice and Fire. It just sounds like it's mostly just intrigue and political maneuvering -

Yeah, what I call "Kings and queens and guillotines". The 1st three of Martin's books struck the right balance for me, but when FEAST FOR CROWS made it clear that he was not only merely keeping a mess of plates spinning in the air but adding! a bunch! more! I checked out. I also couldn't believe how DUNE MESSIAH at half the length of DUNE bored the poo out of me with its scheming plotty-plotty-plottingness by all the different factions. So for me it begins and ends with DUNE. The face-dancer was neat, though.

Brenda wrote: "People should know that back-cover copy is usually farmed out; I have had books where the copy was written by somebody who had never even SEEN the ms. It would have helped if they had been able to..."
Oh, I totally get that, along with the very-iffy cover art that frequently hits the shelves. My beef is with blurbs that seem to set up an overly intricate world with 'too many notes' (to quote the dimwit emperor from Amadeus) at the expense of narrative thrust and character. It's not that I recoil from deep and complex world-building - I just want to make sure that that story-telling gadget encrusted with spinning gears, meshing cogs and pumping pistons has also got wheels that can take the characters and I someplace worthwhile.

The 1st three of Martin's books struck the right balance for me, but when FEAST FOR CROWS made it clear that he was not only merely keeping a mess of plates spinning in the air but adding! a bunch! more!

That was my main beef with A Feast For Crows, too many of the characters and plots from the previous 3 were sidelined. There was way too much going on already to drag in Dorne.

It's heartbreaking for the author, who has no control (except in very rare cases) over cover image or back-cover copy. The goal of both those items is to attract readers who would enjoy the book. When this fails, everybody is cut off at the knees. So sad.

Brenda - I find that I can look past dubious cover art. But just from a time-spent standpoint, even though I know that the book's author is generally not responsible for it, I tend to assume that a blurb is at least somewhat accurate concerning what's in the book.

If I'm browsing in a bookstore or library, I may read a few pages of the book instead of the blurb. That tends to be less feasible if I'm browsing Goodreads or whatever, though.

Since I select my Kindle books online, the online blurbs are important. You can find good books if you're choosy. I subscribe to a daily list of free Kindle books. Blurbs appear on mouse overs. Since these are self-published books for the most part, I believe the authors themselves write the blurbs. The biggest turn off are misspelled or ungrammatical blurbs. This is a sign that the book itself will be poorly edited. Also, if it sounds routine, I'll always give it a miss. I hate formula. Beyond that, I'm allergic to demons and fae. I will rarely read books that include them in the description and won't even bother to look at books that have the words "demon" or "fairy" in the title. The same mostly applies to zombies. I find zombies very boring. There are notable exceptions, but they have to sound very unusual. I rarely read dystopias. I maxed out on them in my teens when I only read dystopias because I thought they were more "significant" than other SF. Now they're just too dark and depressing. I get more than enough dark and depressing in real life, thank you.

Hmm, Shomeret, I will pass on your comments to the folks at Book View Cafe. They would be interested...