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The Fall of Hyperion
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Hyp: Fall of Hyperion readers, huddle!
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I coincidentally read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion like a month before sword and laser chose it so I am currently finished with Fall of Hyperion.I think I enjoyed it more than Hyperion because of that more straight forward story structure. With Hyperion I kind of kept losing momentum as a result of having to start a whole new story every hundred or so pages. I thought it took a while to get going, but the last 200 pages of FoH are pretty spectacular. I think the two books really work well together in that Hyperion does a really good job of building a convincing world and introducing you to the characters while Fall of Hyperion has a more epic, suspenseful feel to it.
Oh good idea! I start Fall tonight (just finished Hyperion this morning)
Jules wrote: A minor gripe is that the scenes narrate a little bit more than Severn could conceivably see (such as Kassad's state of mind). This is actually addressed later in the book. You won't really get an answer as to how he's doing it though I'd postulate its the same way that Raul, he's a new character in book 3 who basically narrates books 3 and 4 much like Severn, does and near the end of book 4 you'll find out how Raul and probably Severn were doing it. I can't say much more without going very deep into spoiler territory. For those who've read the books though I'd say my theory is plausible given the connection Severn has to the reason Raul can do it.
I liked how the story folded back into itself and intersected the original book like when (view spoiler).Its these sort of things that really appealed to me, and this folding back in time to intersect the original book continues in book 3 and the end of book 4 has some pretty surprising revelations that change the original story. Very satisfying reading. Very clever.
I sort of wish it had just transitioned into a straight narrative. When ever it comes back to Severn I just want to go back to the pilgrimage. Not a big deal just a small complaint. The whole him being the first iteration of the Keats guy or whatever is a little confusing too. Also I'm not particularly fond of political intrigue but I imagine it could still pay off. I'm still enjoying it I just wish we spent more time with the pilgrims.
I tried to listen to this in audio yesterday driving 90 minutes each way to a doctor's appointment, but I couldn't focus (admittedly, my doctor's appointment and work were on my mind). I've switched to the Kindle edition and am looking forward to getting some reading done today.
Finished it yesterday, I'm glad that it had a "real" end. I liked the story from both books, but I don't enjoy Dan Simmons style. It feels like he wrote 30% more than the book needed to be really good. There was just to much "color" for my taste.I might read Endymion some day in the future, because I like the setting very much. But I'll start Tigana on Monday and still want to read the Magician King. And then there'll probably be already another S&L book waiting. So Dan will have to wait.
Yeah,I totally agree Christian the stories are great but I feel like Simmons could have consolidated both books into something like one 700 page book.
Christian wrote: "Finished it yesterday, I'm glad that it had a "real" end. I liked the story from both books, but I don't enjoy Dan Simmons style. It feels like he wrote 30% more than the book needed to be really g..."You might like the narrative change in Endymion if you didn't like the style of Fall. The majority of it is told from a 1st person perspective of a character named Raul. There are occasional 3rd person chapters of another character named Federico Soya but whats really happening there is Raul is narrating them much like Severn did. Raul tells you early on, he's essentially writing his biography, that he knows these things happen just as he describes them but you have to wait to find out how.
For those who have finished the Fall anyone feel that the ending and explanations were a little rushed? Certainly felt that way to me. At the end of this I think Hyperion was a better book than Fall of Hyperion. Which is strange given that they were initially the same book. Also was anyone a little jarred by the different narrative styles between the two particularly since they were supposed to be the same book?
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I'm of two minds about reading the last two books considering how Fall was really let downs with how things were revealed and honestly bad pacing. For those who have read the series would you suggest I continue or not?
For the record I really enjoyed Hyperion
Julia wrote: "I'm of two minds about reading the last two books considering how Fall was really let downs with how things were revealed and honestly bad pacing. For those who have read the series would you suggest I continue or not?"Thats a hard one to answer. If you aren't enjoying the story so far you may be better of just lemming the series here.
The last two books are written in a different "style" than the first two. there are essentially only 2 POV characters - Raul Endymion who tells the story from first person - And then Frederico in third person.
It is set a few hundred years later but more about the first book and the Universe is revealed.
A lot of the "explanations" of book 2 are not the "real" explanation.
I finished the series because I enjoyed every book. But if you are having to ask the question whether to continue or not then thats probably a sign you aren't really enjoying the journey and maybe should just say goodbye to Simmons or maybe return to it later on.
I'm right there with ya, Julia. It's why I never bothered to move on to the last two Hyperion books. And probably never will.
Wow, Rise of Endymion is like 700 pages.
Tamahome wrote: "Wow, Rise of Endymion is like 700 pages."Yeah its the biggest book. And the one with the most bang/payoff particularly when you start getting past 65%.
Tamahome wrote: "Wow, Rise of Endymion is like 700 pages."Yeah, its pretty dense especially compared to Endymion. However its well worth it.
I'm 1/5 through Fall, and it really feels like the second part of the story, as it was conceived. I only needed the first chapter to reorient myself and after that the plot started kicking off. Because of that I feel I'm reading it much faster than Hyperion. It's actually going so fast that I feel like I'm close to the end, but there's still a lot to read. Can't wait to finish it and get those promised pay offs. After this, I'll probably move on to Tigana first, so that I'll be done with the June pick early. Then I'll have time to go back to Endymion and Rise.
John wrote: "After this, I'll probably move on to Tigana first, so that I'll be done with the June pick early. Then I'll have time to go back to Endymion and Rise."I found after joining the group that my "to read" list is growing faster than I can keep up with.
Just finished. I liked it a lot. At first I wasn't sure about the narrative style or Severn, but I warmed up to it. Some of it still seemed sort of mystical, but I imagine there would be some extra explanation in the later books from the series. I don't plan on reading the other books, at least not anytime soon. I do still have several questions though.(view spoiler)
I'm about 30% in. I love the parts where the pilgrims go off alone (and their adventures there) - Kassad is suddenly a lot more interesting! I also loved Gladstone walking the worlds, that was pretty touching.
I really enjoyed Hyperion and I picked up Fall of Hyperion to see where it all went. I enjoyed most of the story but the last 30-40% really dropped off for me. I enjoyed the plans within plans aspect of the story within the hegemony and the various factions that were working against each other. It really seems as if Dan Simmons had planned out some long cons and put them into play in the story.
The plot of Hyperion had very little to do with the pilgrim's travels (the traveling felt like background) where the Fall of Hyperion told the story in an almost straight forward way that was a little disappointing. I guess I was hoping for something more after reading Hyperion. I really cannot explain the disappointment because Dan Simmons did tell the pilgrim's story through a non-traditional method.
(view spoiler)
Dustin wrote: "What's the story behind the bodies in the labyrinth?This is fully explained in book 4 but there are enough clues in book 2 to get a good idea - either that or I just made a good guess.
We discover that the AI are using farcasters(view spoiler)
We also know that the cruciforms(view spoiler).
So put those two together and ask what purpose would the core have in (view spoiler)
Brawnes powers are better understood in the last book(though it does involve metaphysics - but then again time travel is also metaphysics).
Severn hides out in the Consul's ship as means of separating himself from the "gen pop" (view spoiler)
I just finished The Fall of Hyperion tonight and really enjoyed it.I'm torn, though, if I want to jump right into Endymion. Part of me feels like I should, just finish the Cantos while the world is still fresh in my mind. The other part of me has a very long queue and I've heard Endymion is a bit of a slog.
Mod
I do want to read Endymion, but this was a satisfying-enough conclusion for now that I'm going to put off Cantos # 3 until next year.
Christian wrote: "Finished it yesterday, I'm glad that it had a "real" end. I liked the story from both books, but I don't enjoy Dan Simmons style. It feels like he wrote 30% more than the book needed to be really g..."I agree on both counts. Any time someone started quoting poetry, I skimmed past it. The prosaic descriptions of landscapes, locations, etc were also my cue to skim forward until I found someone talking.
Julia wrote: I'm of two minds about reading the last two books considering how Fall was really let downs with how things were revealed and honestly bad pacing.
I have to agree with Julia. There seemed to be a lot of padding and meandering in the middle of this book in general. The bits concerning Severn (view spoiler) could have been quite a bit shorter. Some of the Gladstone bits were long. I'm sure I could find other parts that could have gotten a good trimming.
Overall Fall of Hyperion wasn't bad but I disliked that the "second" book was actually the second half of a really huge book and Fall wasn't on the bill of goods I was sold initially.
Just finished reading Fall, loved it. Fascinated by all the various concepts as well as the plot and twists. Agree that there still were some parts that could have been trimmed, though probably not as much as in the 1st book. Obviously I still have many questions, I know some of them will be answered in the next two books, but I think some of them I just didn't understand.
(view spoiler)
I just finished it and while I enjoyed most of it I feel like Simmons led himself down on the character development in book 2. The fact that we got a detailed background stories of all the pilgrims, was the reason I liked Hyperion. In the FoH the pilgrims seems to fade into the background a bit and the new characters are never explored as much as the initial 7 (or 6 really).The redeeming fact for me is that the story line (view spoiler)
Halfway done now. It does feel a bit too long. I'm losing faith that the pilgrims will get the closure they are looking for. At least not in a timeframe I feel satisfied with.(view spoiler) made me feel sad, I liked him defiant. Brawne's turn to the digital doesn't interest me all that much. (view spoiler) after his first and only interesting statement. On the upside, Hoyt got what he was looking for and Kassad seems well on his way. Kassad is actually becoming a bit more of an interesting character now. But Silenus' recent developments have been the best. The description of (view spoiler) was amazing, jubilant. It made me realize these people are hard and tough and are here because of it.
I'm annoyed with Gladstone's motivations - the whole setup for war is never explained, simply "it must be thus". That's no premise to build your book on! I'm glad Severn is not standing for it.
All in all, I'm happy to keep going, but the book is losing momentum a fair bit...
Some interesting Fall of Hyperion covers. 
But my favorite is this one, featuring the tree of pain: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joffsmal...
I too like that one on flickr.
"The Shrike was on its feet, three meters of chrome and blades and other people's pain".Finally finished. I liked the book! There's a bit of a slog around the 40-60% point, but after that things start moving very fast. Some of the later scenes were very touching ((view spoiler)) and it's great to see all of the pilgrims get the closure they deserve.
I liked the bigger picture that Fall of Hyperion brings to the story and enjoyed the entanglements that followed, but I still think back fondly of Hyperion itself and it's less grounded but more personal story. This felt more like the action packed conclusion of Hyperions wonderful set up, and the set up was perhaps best of all.
I'll take my leave of the series now that my pilgrims stories are resolved (and, like others here, I've had my fill of messiah stories).
I loved how everything was wrapped up, i dont feel i have to read the last two books, but if I do I can do it when I Choose.
This entire post is a bit of a spoiler, but the end of fall of hyperion kind of reminds me of (view spoiler)
Gotham wrote: "This entire post is a bit of a spoiler, but the end of fall of hyperion kind of reminds me of [spoilers removed]"Haha yes I had the same thought. The same feeling of the universe getting smaller and islands of people cut off from each other.
Finished Fall yesterday, and loved it, for the most part. I was a bit annoyed the original pilgrims don't seem to play as large a role in the story as Severn, Gladstone and her circle, and (view spoiler).
I can't accuse Simmons of deus ex machina, since he did set up the climax well in advance, but I'm usually not a fan of eucatastrophe either, especially (view spoiler) But the twist with the Ousters was welcome.
Thanks everyne for convincing me to finish reading it (eventually)! I'm about 25% through, and just not enjoying it as much as Hyperion. But, I'm not a big lemmer, the book has to be really boring and awful for me to stop reading. So, I'm going to move on to Tigana, and come back to this later.
Picked up a copy yesterday for 99c so I will probably read it soon while the first book is still fresh in my mind.
I'm relatively new to Sword and Laser and this is my first post, so hello! As far as Fall goes, lemmed it, sadly. After unexpectedly enjoying Hyperion, this was a slog that I never could get into. Didn't like the new narrative and found it a chore every time it switched back to Severn and Gladstone. This is maybe the the last Simmons I try to read for some time (I really enjoyed his The Terror though).
Just finished fall I enjoyed it very much, that and hyperion. I enjoyed the setting and introduction of the pilgrims and then the action packed fall of hyperion.
I think fall could have been shorter it was very exciting but it would drag a little.
At first I found it frustrating that we werent following the pilgrims all the time, and would cross to different characters but those stories got interesting quite quickly so it was cool.
Like everyone im not going on to read the other books in the cantos yet, I need a break from poetry but I will read it someday as I think dan left a few mysteries I would be intrigued in resolving.Something else aswell I would be interested in is the ousters I just thought they seemed like a beutifully evolved race and would like to hear more of them.
I think fall could have been shorter it was very exciting but it would drag a little.
At first I found it frustrating that we werent following the pilgrims all the time, and would cross to different characters but those stories got interesting quite quickly so it was cool.
Like everyone im not going on to read the other books in the cantos yet, I need a break from poetry but I will read it someday as I think dan left a few mysteries I would be intrigued in resolving.Something else aswell I would be interested in is the ousters I just thought they seemed like a beutifully evolved race and would like to hear more of them.
If memory serves, you do get a lot more about the ousters in the next two books. I thought parts of them were sublime and other parts... annoying. On the whole, though, worth reading. When I have re-read the series in the past, I also needed a break after the first two...
I am currently reading it and enjoying. I like that the author switched formats to mix things up. I liked the Canterbury Tales allusion of the first book but wouldn't want it a second round.
I just finished this and loved it.My main concern was that the story would not live up to the grand scale set up by the first book but it managaed it superbly.
My only very minor disappointment would be that I would have liked to hear a little more from the AI, especially the volatiles. They are pretty much faceless villains. I really liked Ummon.
I loved Fall of Hyperion - unlike Daryl, some of my favorite bits of this book were those following Gladstone. I thought that sometimes the pacing was a challenge to read, particularly with the series of events experienced by the pilgrims. But I have to imagine that it was intentional, making us feel the randomness, the foreboding, and unpredictability that the characters were feeling.I actually just finished Endymion, and loved that book as well. I think the whole series so far has been great, and I am not normally a fan of sci-fi. Really looking forward to finishing the tale.
Amy wrote: "I actually just finished Endymion, and loved that book as well. I think the whole series so far has been great, and I am not normally a fan of sci-fi. Really looking forward to finishing the tale. "I enjoyed Endymion as well, but it was my least favourite of the series. Did you noticed how (view spoiler).
The last book Rise of Endymion would have to be in contention for my favourite of the series. It brings the whole series full circle so to speak to intersect the original book. You'll know what I mean when you finish it. It also has the best space battles in the series so you are in for a treat.
ok, finally finished ( i could read both books till now) wow that got really complicated, but i really liked it all. There are still a couple of unclear things to me regarding the Shrike and Moneta from Kassad's part of the story but i guess they might be addressed in later books.
victor wrote: "There are still a couple of unclear things to me regarding the Shrike and Moneta from Kassad's part of the story but i guess they might be addressed in later books."There is an unexpected twist to that story towards the end of book 4.
After Hyperion I was not really sure I would read the next one, but after being a bit bored by Tigana, I started Fall of Hyperion and really got addicted. it really drew me into the world, liked better then the first book.Will probable read the next one sometime in the future when I get bogged down in a slow book
David Sven wrote: "Tamahome wrote: "Wow, Rise of Endymion is like 700 pages."Yeah its the biggest book. And the one with the most bang/payoff particularly when you start getting past 65%."
Yep, the last half of Rise and the final book I seem to remember as making the first books completely worth it.
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Endymion (other topics)The Rise of Endymion (other topics)
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Endymion (other topics)
I like the new story structure - with one 'main' character and frequent excursions to the tombs, it feels like you're watching the events right along with Severn. A minor gripe is that the scenes narrate a little bit more than Severn could conceivably see (such as Kassad's state of mind). Sadly, Severn is, to me, a pretty boring character.
The first real shocker of the book: (view spoiler)[Hoyt the priest getting gutted by the Shrike (hide spoiler)] was the highlight of my read so far. Really well described scene, and very dramatic. Can't wait to see what happens to my pilgrims next!
How are you liking it?