The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the ninth week of discussion for Enemies: A History of the FBI.

The ninth week's reading assignment is:

Week Nine - July 30th - August 5th :

Chapters THIRTY-THREE, THIRTY-FOUR, THIRTY-FIVE p. 277 - 319
THIRTY-THREE - The Ultimate Weapon, THIRTY-FOUR - "Pull down the temple", THIRTY-FIVE - Conspirators

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book kicked off on June 4th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle/Nook. We offer a special thank you to Random House for their generosity.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bryan will be leading this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bentley & Bryan

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Tim Weiner

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in her research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Q&A with Tim

Please as you are reading post questions to the author's Q&A thread because Tim Weiner will be looking in periodically and will be posting answers to your questions and will be available for a chat. We are very fortunate that he is making time to spend with us.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Tim Weiner

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Chapter Thirty Three: The Ultimate Weapon

Nixon came into the presidency on a law and order promise, and Nixon worked in secrecy, something Hoover understood. The two talked frequently. The president wanted more intelligence on the New Left, and try to find the source of the NSC material leak. The FBI also were listening to the taps on the New Left and discovered an organization called the Weathermen, then the Weather Underground. They and other militant organizations began to use bombs. At this time, Hoover became more isolated as Bill Sullivan did more.

Chapter Thirty Four: "Pull down the temple"

In June 1970, Bill Sullivan became the agent in charge of the daily running of the FBI. He worked with White House lawyer, Tom Charles Huston, to develop a plan to fight against campus uprisings and New Left militants. Sullivan advocated unifying the intelligence community to break down the walls between agencies and domestic and international intelligence gathering. Nixon approved the Huston Plan, one Hoover did not like. In response, Hoover pulled the plan, but Nixon now wanted Hoover out of office, and he had John Dean put the plan in action at the White House level. The White House formed the Plumbers, who would do black-bag jobs under G. Gordon Liddy, who was a former FBI agent.

A Leftist group, the Citizens' Committee to Investigate the FBI, broke into a FBI field office in Media, PA and stole some files. Hoover killed COINTELPRO. The president told Hoover to use his old tactics to get the Black Liberation Army snipers that killed 2 NYC policemen.

Hoover dragged his feet in investigating Daniel Ellsberg for leaking the Pentagon Papers, and the director doubted Ellsberg could be convicted, especially after the Supreme Court ruled that newspapers could publish the Pentagon Papers. Nixon almost fired Hoover in September 1970 and thought to make Sullivan director. Sullivan urged Hoover to retire. Hoover felt Sullivan betrayed him and fired him, bringing in Mark Felt.

Chapter Thirty Five: Conspirators

On May 2, 1972, Hoover died. Nixon appointed L. Patrick Gray, a loyal Nixon man to the post. However, Gray did not know anything about the Bureau. James McCord and his team were caught breaking into Democratic Party Headquarters at the Watergate. The White House wanted to stop the FBI from investigating it, but they failed. Gray burned the Plumber files in his backyard.

The Supreme Court ruled that the president could not wiretap American citizens without a warrant. However, the FBI continued to do black-bag jobs. The FBI was being torn apart, as Felt, who wanted to be director, began to leak information on Watergate to reporters. (He was Deep Throat.) When Nixon met with Felt about his confirmation hearings, Nixon asked Gray what he was going to do with Felt. Nixon urged Felt to be like Hoover: ruthless and be feared.

Wow, a lot going on. You get a sense Hoover is off his game. I'm very interested in Hoover's downfall.

Do you think if Nixon came along twenty years earlier, Hoover would have thrived?

Do you think it is his age that forced him to hire Sullivan for the day by day, and become more conservative on FBI tactics?

Bryan wrote: "Wow, a lot going on. You get a sense Hoover is off his game. I'm very interested in Hoover's downfall.

Do you think if Nixon came along twenty years earlier, Hoover would have thrived?

Do you..."

I think it was Hoover's age that changed him. He knew he was nearing the end of his life and he felt like the time to take chances were over for his legacy to remain intact.

I also think if Nixon came along twenty years earlier, he [Nixon] wouldn't have gotten himself in so much trouble. He would have had Hoover do his snooping for him without taking any responsibility. A Watergate type event may have been avoided.

Bryan wrote: "Wow, a lot going on. You get a sense Hoover is off his game. I'm very interested in Hoover's downfall.

Do you think if Nixon came along twenty years earlier, Hoover would have thrived?

Do you..."

Many prominent folks in their later years reflect back and assess their life. It appears that Hoover like so many others with strong personalities, also mellowed.

Thanks, Rich and Mark.

It makes sense he was reflecting on his legacy, and he probably saw that he must do everything not to blemish the FBI's legacy, so he decided to cut back on black-bag jobs and wiretaps.

I don't know if he ever regretted using the techniques he used, but having those techniques go public was a horror for Hoover.

What did everyone think about the description of Hoover's office? What does this say about the man?

Kent State Shootings:



On May 4, 1970, Ohio National Guardsmen were on the Kent State college campus to maintain order during a student protest against the Vietnam War. For a still unknown reason, the National Guard suddenly fired upon the already dispersing crowd of student protesters, killing four and wounding nine others.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Sta...
http://www.kent.edu/about/history/May4/
http://vault.fbi.gov/Kent%20State
James A. Michener

Just a personal note, I am a Kent State alumnus. I was on campus 30 years after the event, but I walked the grounds and the some of the areas where the victims fell. Sad chapter in our history.

You mix this with other events and you got the Huston plan, then you got the Plumbers...

I had been out of the country from 1965 to early 1970 and was unaware of what was going on in the country. The first two chapters have been very enlightening for me. I was aware of the unrest but being from a small town I had no idea of the magnitude of the problems that our nation was facing. The clash of the younger generation with those in authority as demonstrated in these chapters is staggering. The works of the Weatherman and other subversive organization. The racial tensions throughout the country. The anti war movements that were on campus and the feminist movement that was happening during these years. These are just a few of the things that come to my mind that made these time particularly dangerous. I think we were as close to anarchy that this country has ever been in its history.
The nickname for Nixon back then was "Tricky Dick". After the information revealed so far that seems to be a very accurate description of him. A couple of thoughts that came to mind while reading were what was the Congress doing during all this turmoil. What if anything did Spiro Agnew know about all these secret operation the FBI and Nixon had going on.

Clayton wrote: "I had been out of the country from 1965 to early 1970 and was unaware of what was going on in the country. The first two chapters have been very enlightening for me. I was aware of the unrest but b..."

Thanks for sharing, Clayton. It might have been a good thing you were out of the country. I think a lot of people were scared and/or worried about the state of affairs.

You should ask Tim this very question about Congress.

My take on things: I think Congress was really divided and distracted by the Vietnam War and the racial turmoil that FBI oversight was very low on the radar. Also, since Democrats had the majority, I'm not sure they had the numbers to go after LBJ's Justice Department. Nixon...well, no problem.

"Tricky Dick" was a nickname he earned early in his career...I think it was used during his 1950 Senate race against Helen Gahagan Douglas.

When the Kent State incident occurred I was within weeks of graduating from high school and looking forward to heading off to college. That evening I connected with my best friend who happened to drive an olive drab official WWII military jeep to school. We headed off to simply observe the commotion and protests in Harvard Square. The Massachusetts National Guard in lock down mode declared to my friend that he must either remove the large white star on the jeep hood or the prominent white serial numbers in the very near future.

During those days, one big slogan was “America, love it or leave it”. By this date in 1970 the Vietnam War was a true mess. I fully supported my friends serving in the military and at the same time I supported my friends protesting at home. Our nation was divided yet at the same time I witnessed that my spectrum of friends could relax together, look each other in the eye and converse about their common appreciation for America, while questioning the leadership in Washington. For the FBI this confrontation with protesters had nothing to do with Communism.

Thanks, Mark, a great story about your friends coming together. You wished more people did that.

I didn't think the FBI ever found a direct link between Soviet Communism and the New Left. It probably frustrated Hoover to no end.

I thought this quote about Hoover's last days:

"Now, for the first time, Felt saw Hoover as he was-an isolated old man, alone at the top, no longer basking in adulation, fearing for the future." (p. 299)

Bryan, you asked what we thought about the description of Hoovers office. For me it explained everything. Tim's analogy to the Wizard of Oz was perfect. All show but behind the curtain is a scared self absorbed little man.

There was also another great point that the FBI could not tell the difference between a dangerous radical and a concerned student protesting for what they believe. While the book explains no direct links were made between Communist nations and the movement, based upon the travel sites listed, it is a reasonable assumption in my opinion for the FBI to operate under that there was some sort of communication. (i really have no idea what it would have meant had it been proven, my guess is very little. You can't invade the Soviet Union for supporting student groups when we were targeting destabilization tactics inside their country as well) This however does not excuse their authoritarian tactics. Again, we see the push/pull of security and rights.

I am also surprised at the amount of domestic terrorist activities undertaken during this time period including the cold blooded murder of police officers.

It just makes it a sadder tale that the FBI could not work effectively to solve these terrorist attacks.

So, Hoover dies, and Nixon tells L. Patrick Gray to be just as ruthless as Hoover was. Interesting, I think it shows what Nixon was about in these last years.

It seems that Hoover simply couldn't change with the times. He spent his entire career chasing after Communists that when the enemy was internal he simply didn't know how to act. With the Communists, he could easily make up lies or exaggerate because they were, for the most part, outsiders/ghosts/Soviets. But in the 60s with the myriad protests being done by Americans against American institutions, it's much harder to teach an old dog (Hoover) new tricks.

Interesting, Misty, thanks. I wonder if we could draw a parallel between the 1960s and his time during WWI and right after. Both times were full of turmoil.

The difference: he was near the end of his life in the 1960s. I think you are right, his mind-set was his legacy and these black job techniques made the FBI look bad, so he scaled back.

In a way, he still was smarter than most to realize that the day is coming that these techniques will get people into deep trouble.

I'm amazed by the implosion Hoover's death and Watergate has had on the FBI!

The infighting, Felt (aka Deep Throat) leaking information, FBI techniques being investigated, and Gray not having the ability to keep it together.

I was in Boston working and studying at Northeastern University when Kent State happened. All the city's campuses seemed to explode, with Professors Howard Zinn of Boston University and Noam Chomsky of MIT the idols of the protests against the Vietnam War. There were daily demonstrations and police 'action'; Harvard University was across the river.

The NU ROTC building was within site of the window near my desk where I worked, and one day there was a stranger who was hanging out, looking out this window. He was friendly but very observant. The grad students in the department who were heavily into the protests (including several declared Communists) told me he was an FBI guy 'spying' on activity around the ROTC building and listening to any talk in the department.

I was taught to greatly fear being arrested, so I was only in one protest. As it turned out, this protest started my fear against the Boston Tactical Police, who had staged one memorable raid on a very-innocent blind man's apartment in the area. They invaded his apartment, swinging clubs and injuring this middle-age, totally blind resident - the cops had the wrong information as to where the protesters they were after lived. That riot led to a big protest the next day behind road barriers with a large group of students, local residents, NU staff including me, and professors, including my very-conservative Head of Department, while the Tactical Police were facing us down the block also in the street behind road barriers. It eventually broke up peacefully when the Tactical force left.

I know that for their protest activities, along with Zinn's support of Martin Luther King, Jr. both he and Chomsky got FBI files. We were all 'taught' then to not trust the FBI and CIA and anyone not protesting the war. No one trusted Nixon - or LBJ. It was a wild time.

Thank you for sharing, Virginia. There were good reasons not to trust the FBI

Good readers, please keep those ideas and questions coming in the Q and A! Thanks, Tim

Mark Felt calling Bill Sullivan a Judas. Rich irony!

Lol, so true, David, let the back-stabbing begin. It is amazing what a power vacuum does to an organization. It is horrible, and involving such an important organization, as well. Crazy.

This section obviously had additional meaning for many of us. As some shared thoughts about Kent State and other protests, I found the section about the Weatherman hitting home for me. On Page 285 Tim notes:

"That winter, three key members of the New York faction blew themselves up in an elegant town house on West 11th Street while trying to wire sixty sticks of dynamite in a bomb intended to kill soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey."

One member escaped, Kathy Boudin, who in 1981 participated in a bank robbery that killed 3 and wounded one. I knew the 2 police officers killed and the one wounded.

Tim put it well on Page 286:
"The FBI found it hard to distinguish between the kid with a Molotov cocktail and the kid with a picket sign."

One wishes they had been better at getting the bad guys.

Yes indeed. It makes me think how little experience the U.S. has in processing domestic violence in society and in law enforcement compared to Europe.

Most of us who were against the Vietnam War were as much against violent protesters from violent-agenda groups. We feared them as well as being upset with them for ruining peaceful protest. I discovered that most of these radicals had child/adolescent lack of patience and wanted what they wanted RIGHT NOW! The majority of the protesters wanted the war to end as soon as possible only to prevent the death toll of the soldiers from increasing, but we didn't want to add us to the death list by being violent. The deadly violence against non-violent protesters by the FBI, the Chicago police at the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention and the Ohio National Guard at Kent State could be blamed on their overreaction to the deadly violence and bombings from the radicals.

The authorities didn't want to learn the difference between radicals and regular folks who were protesting. Authority ruled: if you were in a demonstration, you were disobeying the law, so if you got shot or beaten - you deserved it for being there. If you got shot and killed across campus just going to class - you were collateral damage and tough luck. Yes, I'm still angry about Kent State and the '68 Chicago Convention.

Thanks, Virginia, yes, indeed, I agree that if you were protesting, the FBI and local law enforcement distrusted you. Nixon won, in part, for his "law and order" message in 1968.

From what I know at Kent State, the National Guardsmen were young and green. They were against a fence with rocks being thrown at them, so they panicked. I'm not making excuses, they should not have done that, a horrible response. But, boy, the town certainly was divided in this time like the rest of the nation.

Bryan and Virginia, cogent comments on Kent State tragedy.

Hard to imagine the atmosphere the National.Guard was operating in. The ROTC building had been torched. Firefighters were attacked, their hoses cut.

There were protestors, innocent bystanders, and true terrorists mixed in together. The National Guard bears responsibility, but so does the violent minority.

My wife tells of getting off train in Cambridge MA on her way to HS and being hit with.tear gas as she'd unknowingly.stepped into a demonstration.

Wow, Brian, crazy. You get a sense of paranoia, too, with the FBI listening in on thousand of Americans without a warrant, the feeling of distrust against the government, etc. Hoover's paranoia on the flip side spreading through the FBI.