Books Without Borders discussion

August 1-7: HC pages 1 (November 8, 2000) through 94 (December 18, 2000)

Hey all. I hope you are enjoying Kevin so far. I am finding it rather interesting. I find the writing style very heavy...which goes along with the subject matter. Anyway. From the first section of our reading, these are the questions that pertain to what we have read so far:

1. Non-maternal, ambivalent mothers are one of the last taboos -- and Eva is a prime example. Were her motives for having a baby entirely selfish? And if so, how much can that have factored into the outcome of an abnormally difficult baby and apathetic child?

2. Is Eva's view of Kevin colored by her ambivalence about motherhood in general, or perhaps by hindsight knowledge of his eventual violence? Is Eva responsible for creating a child she sees as a monster, or was he a monster all along?

Let's start discussing this book! What do you all think so far??

Feel free to ask more questions but please keep it to the first section of the book. :-)

I don't know about you all...but I'm feeling a bit paranoid about motherhood right now. Do we really influence our children this much? To where they could commit such crimes? Or are there truly "bad apples?" It's the classic nature versus nurture thing I guess.

My daughter is 5 right now. I had a lot of mental hangups when I was pregnant with her. I had postpartum depression after having her. I resented having a child in general. But I knew it was my responsibility. Could my hesitation and inability to warm up to her right away cause some future, unfathomable acts on her part? I would hope not. She's a sweet girl. Although, I have fallen in love with her. It took me some time. I don't yet know if Eva falls in love with Kevin. I'm anxious to continue reading.

Sue wrote: "Maranda...I am on vacation right now with spotty internet, but I promise to give a full response no later than Friday! This is all fascinating and I love your q's! :)

--Sue"

Thanks Sue!! I look forward to your response!

I think this book is to encourage discussion on the topic of nature vs nuture, not to give you a warning about how your thoughts or feelings will turn your kid into a criminal. What causes criminal behavior is a very complicated topic. Also, parenting is very hard and also complicated. You thinking certain thoughts during pregnancy will not be the cause of ruining your child's life. I raised two, with many bumps and rocky jolts along the journey, but they are both very nice and kind adults now. I wasn't perfect, and neither are they, but they are good people. Don't put too much pressure on yourself for "molding" your child depending on when you fell in love with her. There will be more to think about on this topic as you read further in the book.

LOL! Thanks Carol! I think I just get so into the books that I'm reading that I start looking at my own family that way. I was diagnosing myself with Asperger's when I read House Rules too.

I have had so many discussions on the old debate of nature vs. nurture when I was getting my degree in Psychology. Honestly, I believe that we are all born with a certain temperament. I do not believe we are complete blank slates. However, I also believe that the experiences we have in life help mold us. But each person reacts to the same situation differently, which is where the personality comes in. Does this make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. I agree that we are born with our own selves already uniquely formed. It is obvious when one can observe two different newborns. No way are they blank slates. And yes, life experiences can change some of that, make them more angry or depressed, or help them achieve levels of happiness. Definitely. But the personality part is there, responding in its unique way to the experiences life hands to them.

Whewwwww! Kevin really makes me wander about genetic pre-dispositions and how one is raised. I have only one child and he's 16y/o. I never had plans of becoming a mother and when he was conceived, I thought my life was over. Thank God as an infant, he slept all night relatively fast, never had colic and was a happy baby. I never desired to be a parent even after being married several years. As my pregnancy progressed---->I had a changr of heart and I wanted the BEST for our son. He's 16y/o now and we've had few challenges with him, however how do we know that there isn't a genetic timeclock simply waiting to alter all that we know him to be?
As a scientist, I know that genetics determine so much of our makeup, however I believe what we nurture in our children is evident. I hope Eve has a change of heart as I did.

I am glad to see that I am not the only one whose mind this book toys with just a little bit. I was going to post something yesterday but the Goodreads app wasn't letting me post it so I'll start over on my computer. I am actually glad that it didn't let me post it though because after reading a few more "letters" I do not find myself thinking like Eva. For the first two or three entries, when she first started thinking about having a baby I could definitely say I think the same things some times, however, I don't believe that I will think the same way as she does when she finally does get pregnant.

Overall this book is very hard for me to read, I usually don't like the books that make me uncomfortable and put me outside of my normal reads that I want to "take me away to a different world". I don't think I want to be in Eva's world for long, that's why it's been very hard for me to read this, I am not even past the first week's section.

I am enjoying everyone's posts and as I said, it is nice to know that I am not the only one who has to think twice about this book. I don't have any children yet, but I do want them some day, we just have a lot to do before we get to that point. Plus come on, I am like a kid myself :). I know we'll never truly be "ready" to have kids, but I do like to think that while our children will have their own predispositions that they are born with, I think that our nuturing will help them along in life in all that they encounter.

Lady Day wrote: "Whewwwww! Kevin really makes me wander about genetic pre-dispositions and how one is raised. I have only one child and he's 16y/o. I never had plans of becoming a mother and when he was conceived,..."

I was like that with my daughter. My husband and I had been married almost 5 years when I found out I was pregnant. It was definitely a shock and I cried a lot. I never became "okay" with being pregnant. I thought it was creepy and understood Eva when she mentioned the aliens jumping out of bellies. I wanted nothing to do with that pregnancy. I didn't read any books. I didn't go to any classes. I wanted to pretend it wasn't happening.

When my daughter was born, I only cared for her out of a sense of obligation. I didn't feel that bond with her. I didn't care to even hold her for a couple days after I had her.

However, when she was about 3, I finally had that change of heart. She was a fantastic baby and has turned into a really cool kid. So my husband and I decided to have another baby. I feel guilty because I am completely bonded with my son whereas I wasn't with my daughter. I worry how this may affect her in the future.

I guess that's why I am getting so paranoid about my daughter while I'm reading this book. I can empathize with Eva and her dislike of being a mother. But I really think my kid is cool. LOL!

Lori wrote: "I am glad to see that I am not the only one whose mind this book toys with just a little bit. I was going to post something yesterday but the Goodreads app wasn't letting me post it so I'll start ..."

Knowing you personally, you are going to be a fantastic mom! You guys are still young and should definitely enjoy your youth and marriage. You *LIKE* kids whereas Eva didn't care for them at all. I feel like she had kids out of a sense of obligation. She had a child for her husband and I feel that the child and their differing opinions in child rearing are what tore them apart. You and Brett are completely different.

I'm focusing on this book right now to just power through it. It definitely makes me uncomfortable as well. You can do it Lori!!

I still say that some of us are too hard on ourselves. My two adult kids, as I said, turned out fine, but I still have huge regrets about some of my parenting mistakes. My daughter and I have a strained relationship which makes me very sad. But.. i need to forgive myself for being human. and know that I did the best I knew how, and after all, she turned out great. She is wonderful with everyone except me, so I guess I gave the world a gift, even though it turned out to be painful on my end.

There is A LOT to think about while reading this book. It really is creepy.... kudos for sticking with it.

Carol wrote: "I still say that some of us are too hard on ourselves. My two adult kids, as I said, turned out fine, but I still have huge regrets about some of my parenting mistakes. My daughter and I have a str..."

I'm so sorry to hear about your strained relationship with your daughter. I agree that parents do the best job they know how to do. We can only give the tools for success to our children and hope that they use them properly. At a certain point, children need to take responsibility for their own actions. We parents are definitely too hard on ourselves.

I don't have kids myself yet, but reading all your posts so far has been interesting and insightful!

The nature vs nuture problem is still not very well understood, although I believe each has an equal affect upon a child.


Personally, I don't think I want to/will be able to discuss this book too deeply as I feel like a bit of an outsider reading about a situation I have never been in, so I'm just going to leave my opinion of the story...

After finishing the first weeks section of reading, all I've really taken from this book so far is how much Eva did not want a child. The only reason she's found for having one is for someone to mourn with when her husband dies. I'm finding Eva to be a really irritating and selfish woman. I understand that it must be an incredible difficult and sometimes heartbreaking situation to be in, to be in a relationship where one person is desperate for a child whereas the other is desperate to not have one. But I can't see how having a child even though you don't want one would be a good idea in any situation.

Now I'm not saying this has anything to do with how Kevin turned out. I can't really say I've gotten far enough with the book to make my mind up about him yet. It's just that so far I'm really struggling to relate to, understand or even like Eva. Does anyone else feel this way?

Definitely, Beth. I did not like her at all at first. And I agree, if one doesn't want a child, she should not have one (if she can avoid it -- sometimes nature just takes its course, birth control be damned).

That's a fair point I didn't take into consideration! If you don't want a child, don't choose to have one anyway. I think that's the point I was trying to make haha, thanks Carol!

Beth wrote: "I don't have kids myself yet, but reading all your posts so far has been interesting and insightful!

The nature vs nuture problem is still not very well understood, although I believe each has an..."

Beth, I think your point of view is just as valid as anyone's. You have a different perspective for us all to consider as well. Imagine if you had read about this in your local newspaper. If you lived in this town. How would you react?

I agree that Eva is a selfish character. She should not have gotten pregnant on purpose if it wasn't what she wanted. Children rarely turn out absolutely perfect. Well, no one can ever be absolutely perfect and that's what she was expecting. She hated how her body changed. She resented having to leave her job. I don't understand why she chose to have a child in the first place. It's quite annoying really.

Thanks for your feedback!!

Maranda wrote: "Lady Day wrote: "Whewwwww! Kevin really makes me wander about genetic pre-dispositions and how one is raised. I have only one child and he's 16y/o. I never had plans of becoming a mother and when ..."

I'm glad your heart answered the call of your daughter's heart Maranda. Dont feel any sense of guilt regarding bonding with your babies. Love is the best equalizer. (;