The Baby Lisa Search Warrant

The latest news of the Baby Lisa Case has focused on the affidavit in support of the search warrant. The execution of a search warrant can prove to be one of the most critical steps in a criminal investigation. The evidence seized, the manner in which it was seized and the analysis of that evidence may be the difference between acquittal and conviction.

Our founding fathers understood the intrusiveness of a search and established rules for obtaining a search warrant. The fourth amendment of our Constitution reads, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The affidavit submitted to obtain a search warrant of the Irwin residence highlighted important information. I found the following two facts to be the most compelling:
- A cadaver dog “indicated a positive ‘hit’ for the scent of a deceased human…”
- “…dirt having an appearance of being recently disturbed or overturned.”

These two statements, while not conclusive, lead a reasonable person to believe, when considering all the facts in toto, that there was probable cause to believe a body may be found.

That is sad and difficult to confront. However, we should not be surprised. The police activities have clearly reflected their focus on recovering a body. Though the implications of these statements are obvious, I was a little surprised that these two facts were limited to a few sentences at the end of the affidavit.

The first step any defense attorney takes is to quash the search warrant, thus disallowing any evidence seized during the search to be admitted in to trial. This approach is usually based on showing a defect in the warrant, often citing a lack of probable cause. Accordingly an affidavit must be as specific and compelling as possible to ward off any future attack by a defense attorney.

This search warrant did contain some generalities that I felt could have been presented in more detail and specificity. For example, one paragraph discussed three cell phones that were missing and were not located. The affidavit made no mention of why they suspected the cell phones would be found in the house. There was no mention of any other attempt to locate the phones (e.g. through the cell phone company). The significance of these phones in establishing probable cause could have been explained in more detail.

The police also do not want to be overly specific in the affidavit. That too can lead to challenges that may result in the search warrant being quashed and the evidence not admitted.

The primary goal of the search is to find Baby Lisa, hopefully alive. Yet, the police cannot ignore the importance of the prosecution should this sadly become a homicide. Then, the eyes of the nation will be upon them. As of now, everything the police have done has moved them in the right direction.
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Published on October 22, 2011 08:08
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message 1: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 22, 2011 09:08AM) (new)

Irisheyes Excellent article! Very well written, and informative. I have a question concerning this case. Based on your experience as a police officer and FBI agent,do you feel that there will be an arrest soon? Also,is the cadaver hit enough to secure an arrest?


message 2: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Thanks for those excellent questions. In my opinion and experience, the cadaver hit is sufficient probable cause for a search warrant but not an arrest; the hit alone leaves many unanswered questions. There have been rumors of an impending arrest. While possible, I think it is too early, although there may be evidence of which we are not aware. Often, most of the case is put together after the arrest. However, looking at the Casey Anthony case, I think they will move cautiously. They do not want to rely on cooperation. The evidence must be compelling. Thanks, Michael


message 3: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Thanks for your reply. So, they extracted evidence from the house, baby items etc...and they discovered the freshly overturned soil. Coupled with the inconsistent statements made by the mother. Is that considered evidence, or do they need more forensic evidence such as blood, hair, etc. to make an arrest?
I agree with you and share the very same sediments on the CA trial. That trial certainly has set a precedence on many different levels for future cases. I am glad to see how close to the vest the KCPD is playing their cards.
Also, how does the "sightings" of a man carrying a baby factor into this crime? Red Herring? Odd twist? Staged? What do you think of those?


message 4: by Bellalina (new)

Bellalina Great site Michael. Intelligent questions and answers so thank you. I think you are right about the Casey Anthony case. It seems to have really set a new standard or lack of. I think the police in the Baby Lisa case are handling things well. I find it interesting that this case has similarities to Casey Anthony case as far as Mr. Stanton/ Mr Padilla...Jose Baez/Mr Taco man and now the new female attorney/DP qualified! I think the cadavar dogs are excllant but I know they are not used to make an arrest. I think the sightings of the man carrying the baby will have to be adressed especially since the media has gotten in touch with these individuals. Do you think if the sightings are real that the man was carrying a "live" baby? Do you think it could have been staged?


message 5: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Those items constitute evidence. The level of proof required for an arrest is probable cause, not the higher level of beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction. So, while there may be sufficient evidence to arrest, there may not be enough for conviction.

As for the witnesses, I can recall many times witnesses have come forth with such specific information that it seemed completely credible - only to wash out later. While some people are attention-seekers, others' ability to recall are affected by extraneous information they heard and/or saw. Eyewitness evidence is not always as reliable as it seems.

Thanks,
Michael


message 6: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Bellalina wrote: "Great site Michael. Intelligent questions and answers so thank you. I think you are right about the Casey Anthony case. It seems to have really set a new standard or lack of. I think the police in ..."

Thanks for participating in the conversation. I think the sightings may be related to my previous post - attention-getters and fallible memories. As for staging, I am not sure who would instigate that. The cops will attempt to track down, but they are focused now; I don't think any distraction will throw them off the track. Thanks, Michael


message 7: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Just based on your professional opinion and experience, what is your opinion of this couple based on the evidence, and do you feel that Jeremy is complicit in this crime? I also believe that LE is looking for a baby's body, and not an abductor as well.
Also, why is there such a big discussion on the 3 missing cell phones? Doesn't LE just need the records, which I'm sure they have, and not the physical phones themselves? Thanks in advance.


message 8: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Just based on your professional opinion and experience, what is your opinion of this couple based on the evidence, and do you feel that Jeremy is complicit in this crime? I also believe that LE is ..."

Thanks for framing the question with the verbiage, "based on the evidence." I think it is fair to state that the evidence points to mom, though not conclusively. I agree with you on the cell phones. As I note in my blog, the relevance of the phones to probable cause for searching the house was not clear. Keep the good questions coming. Thanks, Michael


message 9: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes I understand that this is a public blog, and that the use of descretion in language is in everyones best interest.
Yes, the cell phones are not clear. Whether it is something that the parents feel is evidence, and LE is just making notes of the parents comments, or if the phones are important for the police to find. Anyways, back to the cadaver dogs. Here is a case that was posted on another blog that is very similar to this case, which you may or may not familar with. Apparently, the positive hit on the mothers apartment by a cadaver dog is the strongest evidence that LE has against this woman. She is in jail currently awaiting her upcoming murder trial of her daughter. I believe baby Lauryn Dickens has not been found.

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-lauryn-...

Also, another question concerning is the Grand Jury. Not much has been mentioned publically, but it has been mentioned. What is your take on this? Is this an investigative grand jury, or is this a specific grand jury focusing on the Irwin dissappearance. Will the grand jury hand down an indictment prior to an arrest?


message 10: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Thank you for answering my questions. It is nice to get answers from an experienced professional. Your article was very informative. Thanks Michael!


message 11: by Marcella (new)

Marcella The Baby Lisa mom appears to be truly grieving. But I guess that can be pretty deceptive.
The type of searches that are being done would surely indicate that the police believe they're on to something.
Your analysis is very interesting particularly since it is so professional and based on your years of experience. Thank you -- I've learned a lot.
Marcella


message 12: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "I understand that this is a public blog, and that the use of descretion in language is in everyones best interest.
Yes, the cell phones are not clear. Whether it is something that the parents fe..."


My understanding was that this grand jury was a standing grand jury, not impaneled for this case. An indictment may first be obtained and then an arrest is made. The process may differ per jurisdiction and/or the discretion of the police and prosecutor. Thanks, Michael


message 13: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Marcella wrote: "The Baby Lisa mom appears to be truly grieving. But I guess that can be pretty deceptive.
The type of searches that are being done would surely indicate that the police believe they're on to somet..."

Thanks Macella


message 14: by Bellalina (new)

Bellalina I recall in the beginning of the case it was said that The mother received a text from her brother at 2:30 A.M
in the morning. Was that ever verified. Also what do you think of the new video surveillance of a man emerging from the woods nearby at 2:30 A.M.
Thanks Bellalina


message 16: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Bellalina wrote: "I recall in the beginning of the case it was said that The mother received a text from her brother at 2:30 A.M
in the morning. Was that ever verified. Also what do you think of the new video surv..."


I have not heard any more about that text message. That tape is certainly circulating through the internet. If it is a tape of that date and time, it would tend to support the "sightings." When viewed along with the dumpster fire and searches at landfills, that would indicate the police have chased down all leads and possibilities. The police have not stated whether they are considering, or ruled out, a stranger abduction. We can only surmise their beliefs by their actions. I am wondering why the tape appears to have made its way to the media before the police. The police will have to verify its date, time and authenticity. I would like to hear a police response to this tape, but they seem to be avoiding the media since the search. Thanks, Michael


message 17: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 23, 2011 09:28AM) (new)

Irisheyes Wasn't the tape released by a news channel? I also wondered about the authenticity/date time of the tape. It will be interesting to hear, if anything what KCPD has to say about the tape.

In regards to the 2:30 text, It was Debra herself, ( although we know how she struggles at times to keep her story straight) that the police did question her about burned clothing, and she says they showed her the clothes, and asked if she recognized the clothes. She stated I hope they aren't "real". In addition, at that same interview, she states that LE also showed her what she described as a "doppler" map of phone pings and a record of a text/call coming from one her alleged stolen phones at 2:30am. She says SHE didn't make the call, but the person who "took" Lisa made the call.
Surmize that the if this sighting is true the man in white emerging, I would think with all the other evidence, cadaver dog positive hit, moms inconsistient statements, burned baby clothes, all leads to me that this sighting supports the possible scenario of a deceased baby Lisa remains being disposed of NOT abducted.


message 18: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Michael,

Do you know if the area the the tape shows the man in white emerging from the woods is an area that investigators have priviously searched for Lisa?
Is it also possible that the police may have already viewed this tape of the man coming out the woods, and just have not discussed it publicly?


message 19: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,

Do you know if the area the the tape shows the man in white emerging from the woods is an area that investigators have priviously searched for Lisa?
Is it also possible that the poli..."


The investigative steps by the police clearly indicate that they are searching for a body, stranger abduction or not. I do not know if that area has been searched. The presence of this possible third party can be interpreted different ways. It is possible that the police may have already seen this tape. If they have, and did not rule this out, I would imagine they would ask the public if anyone had any information. Although the image cannot really be seen, someone may know something. There may be reasons for keeping this quiet, but it would appear to be in the best interests of the investigation to identify this man as soon as possible - which, as you point out, the police may have already done. I think more "new information" will emerge. Thanks, Michael


message 20: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 23, 2011 10:37AM) (new)

Irisheyes The timing of this new tape is interesting to me, as well as the proximtiy of other events and occurences concerning this case as it unfolds. I appreciate your feedback, your credibility and expertise is very informative, and lends to a much better view and perspective from a law enforcement actions in this case. I suspect more information to emerge as well. I hope that LE has, or is in the process of indentifying this man.
Michael, in your opinion, what type of surveillance tape is this? A rest area? A store cam? Is this in a residential area? I cannot seem to find much out as far as where this tape originated and location? Has the news media (ABC?) released party identity that provided this video if the KCPD didn't release it?


message 21: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "The timing of this new tape is interesting to me, as well as the proximtiy of other events and occurences concerning this case as it unfolds. I appreciate your feedback, your credibility and expert..."

The camera appears to be a gas station/C store exterior security cam. I have not heard who owned the camera. Thanks, Michael


message 22: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Thanks Michael!


message 23: by Bellalina (new)

Bellalina This case is really so interesting many twists and turns. I look at the photo of Lisa a precious little angel and my heart aches. I wonder if you think it might be possible Michael that the Private investigator and Attorney brought in by the secret benefactor... may have provided the video information to the media. I am always leary when a news outlet says "exclusive". It is interesting that 3 weeks later this comes out and I am not sure the Police knew about it. In the beginning Jeremy did a interview with Judge Piro when she ask him "who would do something like this" and Jeremy said "Jeremy Irwin made this statement, but actually said, "someone who has cheated on her husb..." and stopped himself. This is a self-censoring, meaning that as he said it, he wanted to stop himself. I wonder if after the friend left that night maybe Deborah had someone else there and they continued to party and something happened to Baby Lisa and the man took the baby to dispose of her. I know it is far fetched but for some reason I still have a hinky feeling about the mother. I hope I am wrong and baby Lisa is alive somewhere. Sorry for the long post.
Thanks Michael


message 24: by Isabelle (new)

Isabelle Zehnder After our conversation the other day I thought more about the affidavit and wondered ...

Did Kansas City Police know before submitting the Affidavit and other docs that the judge was not going to allow them to be sealed?

Could this be the reason it was worded the way it was?

It seems to lack a lot of substance, for a lack of a better word, and I'm now wondering if perhaps that's why. Thoughts?

I suppose it all depends on when they filed their motion, and when the judge denied their motion. Or if they suspected the judge would deny their motion.

I was actually surprised to see the documents made public. Were you? I wonder why the judge didn't seal them. I've seen them sealed in some missing persons' cases.

I read in a Kansas Star report today that the family attorney, Cynthia Short (local counsel working with Tacopina) believes baby Lisa is still alive. What do you think of her statement, after the cadaver dog 'hit' on the carpet?

http://www.examiner.com/missing-perso...


message 25: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Michael,
Could it possibly be that the man emerging from the woods tape is irrelevant to the investigation? Perhaps police have viewed this tape, identified the man already, and discounted it.
Bellalina, I agree. When ever I hear exclusive, to me, it means money exchanged. ABC paid for the tape? Why would the procurer of this tape only send to one media station and not the others? Why 3 weeks later? Certainly by now would all security cameras would have been checked by LE from all entities that had them in and around the area? The location of the tape is very close to the first sighting at 12:15.
I too remember that statement from Jeremy. In therapy, as well in police interview techiques, I am sure that any well trained investigator knows quite a bit about body language, and what statements can infer. Just yet another tool for them.
I want to wait and see if LE comments on this video. But I won't hold my breath. They have not come out at all to negate or confirm any details of this case on the evidence. KCPD has really no obligation to be transparent in this investigation if in doing so interferes with the investigation.


message 26: by Michael (last edited Oct 23, 2011 05:55PM) (new)

Michael Tabman Bellalina wrote: "This case is really so interesting many twists and turns. I look at the photo of Lisa a precious little angel and my heart aches. I wonder if you think it might be possible Michael that the Private..."

I do not think the PI or Attorney would provide the tape. If it was legitimate evidence, it would be in their clients' best interests to give it to the police. If it is not legit; they would only be creating more trouble for themselves. There are so many possibilities.

Please do not apologize for the long post. The more thoughts we share, the better the conversation. And yes, let's stay hopeful. Thanks, Michael


message 27: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Isabelle wrote: "After our conversation the other day I thought more about the affidavit and wondered ...

Did Kansas City Police know before submitting the Affidavit and other docs that the judge was not going to ..."

Isabelle, Great to hear from you. Congrats on your great coverage of this case on examiner.com The police most likely did consider that the affidavit would not be sealed; that is always a risk. So you are probably correct that the wording was designed to not reveal any information they felt would hurt the investigation. The way it was written, I did not see any reason to seal the affidavit. It was very broad. Attorneys must represent the best interest of their clients, so I understand the attorney trying to dispel suspicion. The problem is that such statements give the appearance that they know something that is not being shared by the police. The attorney's statement after the cadaver dog hit sounded logical and has certainly raised some questions. This afternoon, I spoke with a dog handler who does these searches; he expressed some concern with the hit and how it was presented in the affidavit. The next step by the police should be revealing. Thanks for helping to keep us informed. Michael


message 28: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,
Could it possibly be that the man emerging from the woods tape is irrelevant to the investigation? Perhaps police have viewed this tape, identified the man already, and discounted it.
..."

Yes, the man emerging from the woods may be completely unrelated. I recall many times in my career when something appeared to be critical to a case, only to later be deemed unrelated. I do not know if this tape has be verified as true and correct. You are right about the police and media. The public wants all the information, but the police first responsibility and obligation is to the investigation. Thanks, Michael


message 29: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Thanks for all those great questions. Let me know if I missed anything.


message 30: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 24, 2011 06:49AM) (new)

Irisheyes Michael,you are correct about the police and the media. "While the public wants information, the police responsibility is first and foremost to the investigation". Thanks, Michael"
Awesome response.
We have learned, and were taught by the Casey Anthony case that justice and media, is a good recipe for success. If manipulated correctly, justice is served by a blackberry in the courtroom, with many sending advice each and every moment for a DEFENSE. Well, for me, for lack of a better word don't "gel" with all of that. In my opinion, Debra is manipiulating the media to garner attention on behalf of her defense. We, the public. But we aren't that stupid.
I respect your silence, (LE silence) and also respect your professionalism as to not get into great detail on this aspect on your blog. Your respect for the KCPD and all their work in this case is very telling, and your silence of the probative evidence is very telling as to what you reveal here on this blog. Thank you for what you have shared, and also what you have not....what you have not shared is more much telling.


message 31: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,you are correct about the police and the media. "While the public wants information, the police responsibility is first and foremost to the investigation". Thanks, Michael"
Awesome respons..."


Irisheyes, Thanks for all your great input. I must admit that I am not sure how to respond to your last post. I look forward to continued dialog. Thanks, Michael


message 32: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes No worries... was not really looking for a response, I understand. I understand that it is hard to respond on a public forum. Thank you....


message 33: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 24, 2011 08:11AM) (new)

Irisheyes Michael,

In most missing children cases usually the police do give public media updates. In this case , there has been no comments made publicly by KCPD.

"Steve Young said he can’t comment on what media outlets are reporting or discuss what’s going on in the investigation" “I really cannot comment on what the detectives know and have done,” Young said Sunday.

.Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/23/....

Can you give your opinion as to why Captain Young and LE remain so quiet? What is this indicative of?


message 34: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Yes, LE has been very quiet since the search. I think they simply do not have anything to report. Young's statement about not responding to media outlets was appropriate, otherwise, they would have the media and public leading the direction of the investigation. That does not mean that they are not pursuing those leads, only that they will not be held to the media's timetable. As for the reference to the detectives, the wording was not the best; I can see that having a press conf just to make no comment doesn't sit well with the public. Being straight-up is probably best -if there is information they do not want to share with the public, just say so. Thanks, Michael


message 35: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Thanks for the response Michael. Your right, we absolutely want the KCPD leading this investigation and not the media and or the public. Even though we the general public would like to know the updates, it still is good that they are being so tight lipped.
Would you mind answering a couple more questions? I know that you have a very extensive background being a 14 year veteran with the FBI. Can you explain the difference between the different types of dogs that are being used in this case? The language given, as per your article, is that an FBI cadaver dog was used and a positive hit was made for deceased remains?
Why is their so much controversy swirling about these results, and even Tacopina is making the rounds on National TV disputing, and almost completely dicounting the result of the hit inside the Irwin home? Can a dog really hit on toenail scrapings, fecal matter among other things that is part of the decomposition in itself?
Attorney Short also discounted the cadaver hit due to the fact that LE investigators while executing the search, did not take up and carpet swatches in the area of where the hit was. Most experts that have spoken concerning these cadaver dogs say they are almost 90% accurate. What are your thoughts based on your experience with these dogs detecting the presence of a deceased body previously being in a location? Thanks so much for answering my questions.


message 36: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman From my experience, these dogs are highly reliable. However, this is not within my expertise, so I cannot expound upon that. I have spoken with experts in the area who have had different opinions as to the efficacy of these dogs under these particular circumstances. I don't think the dog "hit" will become a critical piece of evidence beyond the search warrant, but if it does, it will be expert testimony vs. expert testimony. Thanks, Michael


message 37: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Michael,
Thanks. It appeared to me that LE was definitely trying to make this a sterile search, including the dogs....asking for a no fly zone while dogs were on duty not to distract them. I would venture to guess, that the credentials of this dog, if FBI trained, were pretty solid. You mention in your article that the first job a defense attorney does in this type of case is try to quash the warrant.First, were you surprised that Tacopina or Short didn't try to "quash" the warrant? Also, do you believe that either attorney was apprised of the "positive hit" inside the Irwin home prior to the search on Wed?
Considering the *potential evidence that investigators retrieved from the home, if this evidence is corroborated with other evidence, pointing to the possible scenario that the was crime committed in the home, can the defense block the evidence from being admitted in trial?
Still wanting to know what your opinion is of the tape that surfaced. Is it your opinion that it is related to this case?


message 38: by Michael (last edited Oct 24, 2011 05:10PM) (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,
Thanks. It appeared to me that LE was definitely trying to make this a sterile search, including the dogs....asking for a no fly zone while dogs were on duty not to distract them. I wou..."


The attorney would try to "quash" if and when the evidence was brought to trial, via a suppression hearing. This is when they would attack the affidavit or other aspects of the search.

Attorneys often try to block evidence from being admitted into the trial. There are many tactics for doing so. A search warrant is generally the "safest" way to obtain evidence. But, nothing is guaranteed.

As for the tape - it may be related, but I have my suspicions. The timing and the way it appeared in the media, before the police concern me. Also, there was no date/time stamp (at least I did not see one.) The police will have to review this tape for authenticity.

As you seem to enjoy police procedure, please allow me to shamelessly plug my crime novel, Midnight Sin. It is replete with police procedures. I am confident you will enjoy it. Thanks, Michael


message 39: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Michael, I will have to say that your blog is awesome. I follow some specific cases and I am a crime blogger. ( LOL, I hate to say that to a former FBI agent) I have to admit. But, I have never come across such a site as yours, where an expert, a credible one, novice, is actually answering questions and welcomes questions and dialouge! That's very cool in my opinion. Via the internet, I have come across less credible sites that really are less than interesting to me, due to their lack of qualifications and credibility in the area of expertise. I am surprised that you do not have more posters here? Seriously....you have a great site. Better than most crime sites. I would love to get your inside view( pick your brain) on several other cases, but we will keep tunnel vision here for baby Lisa's case for now. Plug, and plug away Michael on your book. I will purchase, I love the title. I know your are shamelessly blushing now, but do plug away!! With the amount of experience that you have and your expertise, I am sure that you have witnessed many scenarios, and some awful human eye witness experiences involving crimes. Your certainly getting the views, as I see almost 400 in a short amount of time...perhaps people will start posting. Why view and not post?


message 40: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael, I will have to say that your blog is awesome. I follow some specific cases and I am a crime blogger. ( LOL, I hate to say that to a former FBI agent) I have to admit. But, I have never c..."

Thank you for those kind words. I agree, I would like to see more of the "viewers" become "posters." You and your friends should feel free to invite others to the site. More debate and conversation would be great. Thanks, Michael


message 41: by just1girl (new)

just1girl With all due respect to Irisheyes, perhaps people read to learn & do not feel they have anything to ask that has not already been asked. So they "view" but do not post. Michael, I found my way here via a post from someone at BlinkOnCrime. I've added you to my blog "favorites" & look forward to reading more as this case develops.


message 42: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Michael,
400 views and no posts. What does that tell you? People want to read what you have written. Clearly, they are reading it. My camp, is focused on another well known case that you are not covering at the moment on your blog. That case is 2 years old, and we have definitely bonded. We blog to this day on this case. It remains unsolved to date. Baby Lisa captured my attention, and the group is not as interested as of late in the missing case of baby Lisa as I am. But, to have an expert to ask questions to is another matter. They would be thrilled to be able to ask questions to an expert. But baby Lisa is just me. We have our own site, and it is strictly dedicated to this 2 year old case. If you could write an article about this case...you could and would get some definite traffic. I know you would and probably are familiar with the case I am referring to. But it is up to you. Anyways
for now, let's keep our attention on baby Lisa. Thank you for your feed back.


message 43: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Karen,
I wasn't criticizing anyone who just reads and doesn't post. I am sorry if I insuinated that in my post. We all are learning and we all care. I agree with you that people read to learn, and this blog is a good way to learn from an expert. I also read on BOC Dina had posted liks to this site, I so hope for justice for baby Lisa. I hope this is ok that I posted this Michael, as I thought this post was directed at me.


message 44: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,
400 views and no posts. What does that tell you? People want to read what you have written. Clearly, they are reading it. My camp, is focused on another well known case that you are not..."


I would be happy to look at this case and see if there is anything I can offer. Thanks for your trust and confidence, Michael


message 45: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Karen,
I wasn't criticizing anyone who just reads and doesn't post. I am sorry if I insuinated that in my post. We all are learning and we all care. I agree with you that people read to learn, a..."


All is okay. It is great to be communicating with others who share a passion for justice. I appreciate your participation and support.
Thanks, Michael


message 46: by Irisheyes (last edited Oct 25, 2011 09:01AM) (new)

Irisheyes Michael,

Has it been confirmed by LE what time Jeremy Irwin actually came home (around 3:30am) If Jeremy left for work at 5:30, wouldn't an 8 hour shift bring him home around 1:30?

RE: The polygraph: Is it common practice to give one poly to one parent and not the other?

RE: Irwins vehicles: Has it been confirmed that the Irwins had 2 vehicles, one being a company truck(van) for Jeremy, and the family car?

RE: Media: What is your opinion on the public appearances of the attorneys basically "defending Debra" on National TV?

Thanks in advance. Irisheyes


message 47: by Michael (new)

Michael Tabman Irisheyes wrote: "Michael,

Has it been confirmed by LE what time Jeremy Irwin actually came home (around 3:30am) If Jeremy left for work at 5:30, wouldn't an 8 hour shift bring him home around 1:30?

RE: The ..."


Hello Irisheyes. I have not heard a confirmed report of Dad's hours. If his account of his hours are not true, that would be an inconsistency that needed to be explained to the satisfaction of the police. But again, I have not heard this information as confirmed.

Nobody can be forced to take a polygraph. Mom volunteered. Considering what has followed, I doubt Dad will agree to a polygraph.

I have no information regarding the cars.

The attorney walks a fine line. She is trying to protect her client from the court of public opinion. My personal opinion is that attorneys should stick to the courtroom. Sometimes, having an attorney speak for you does not have the desired effect. However, that is strictly a personal decision for the individual and a professional consideration for the attorney. In this particular case, the attorney has raised some questions that are being bantered about. In that respect, she has accomplished what she set out to do. Thanks, Michael


message 48: by Bellalina (new)

Bellalina I read this today and I wondered who the police interviewed that was in this photo that mr Thompson is talking about. Jersey???

This is from the article and the link to it is below.


"Yesterday they showed me a paper with six pictures on it," Thompson said. "And I picked out the man they had been showing pictures of."

The man in the photograph has been questioned by the police several times, but the other witnesses, a couple who live three houses down from the Irwin house, said the photo did not match the man they say they saw with a baby the night Lisa disappeared.

"No, I don't recognize him," the woman said when shown the photo. "He was tall and slender and, as far as his head, we thought he was bald."

Baby Lisa has been missing since the night of Oct. 3 and an anonymous benefactor is offering a $100,000 reward for her safe return or the conviction of whoever took the little girl.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby...


message 49: by Bellalina (new)

Bellalina I agree Irish Eyes it would be great to have Michael look at other cases we know of.


message 50: by Irisheyes (new)

Irisheyes Good to see you Bellanlina! Yes, I think so too.
I would like to respond to your post, but you probably want to hear Michaels response.
I am confused by the 4:00am sighting witness identifying Jeremy?


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Crime Scene

Michael Tabman
Ex-cop, retired FBI Agent and author.

Michael's books and Crime Scene Blog can be found at michaeltabman.com

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