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Irisheyes
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Oct 22, 2011 09:08AM

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I agree with you and share the very same sediments on the CA trial. That trial certainly has set a precedence on many different levels for future cases. I am glad to see how close to the vest the KCPD is playing their cards.
Also, how does the "sightings" of a man carrying a baby factor into this crime? Red Herring? Odd twist? Staged? What do you think of those?


As for the witnesses, I can recall many times witnesses have come forth with such specific information that it seemed completely credible - only to wash out later. While some people are attention-seekers, others' ability to recall are affected by extraneous information they heard and/or saw. Eyewitness evidence is not always as reliable as it seems.
Thanks,
Michael

Thanks for participating in the conversation. I think the sightings may be related to my previous post - attention-getters and fallible memories. As for staging, I am not sure who would instigate that. The cops will attempt to track down, but they are focused now; I don't think any distraction will throw them off the track. Thanks, Michael

Also, why is there such a big discussion on the 3 missing cell phones? Doesn't LE just need the records, which I'm sure they have, and not the physical phones themselves? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for framing the question with the verbiage, "based on the evidence." I think it is fair to state that the evidence points to mom, though not conclusively. I agree with you on the cell phones. As I note in my blog, the relevance of the phones to probable cause for searching the house was not clear. Keep the good questions coming. Thanks, Michael

Yes, the cell phones are not clear. Whether it is something that the parents feel is evidence, and LE is just making notes of the parents comments, or if the phones are important for the police to find. Anyways, back to the cadaver dogs. Here is a case that was posted on another blog that is very similar to this case, which you may or may not familar with. Apparently, the positive hit on the mothers apartment by a cadaver dog is the strongest evidence that LE has against this woman. She is in jail currently awaiting her upcoming murder trial of her daughter. I believe baby Lauryn Dickens has not been found.
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-lauryn-...
Also, another question concerning is the Grand Jury. Not much has been mentioned publically, but it has been mentioned. What is your take on this? Is this an investigative grand jury, or is this a specific grand jury focusing on the Irwin dissappearance. Will the grand jury hand down an indictment prior to an arrest?


The type of searches that are being done would surely indicate that the police believe they're on to something.
Your analysis is very interesting particularly since it is so professional and based on your years of experience. Thank you -- I've learned a lot.
Marcella

Yes, the cell phones are not clear. Whether it is something that the parents fe..."
My understanding was that this grand jury was a standing grand jury, not impaneled for this case. An indictment may first be obtained and then an arrest is made. The process may differ per jurisdiction and/or the discretion of the police and prosecutor. Thanks, Michael

The type of searches that are being done would surely indicate that the police believe they're on to somet..."
Thanks Macella

in the morning. Was that ever verified. Also what do you think of the new video surveillance of a man emerging from the woods nearby at 2:30 A.M.
Thanks Bellalina

in the morning. Was that ever verified. Also what do you think of the new video surv..."
I have not heard any more about that text message. That tape is certainly circulating through the internet. If it is a tape of that date and time, it would tend to support the "sightings." When viewed along with the dumpster fire and searches at landfills, that would indicate the police have chased down all leads and possibilities. The police have not stated whether they are considering, or ruled out, a stranger abduction. We can only surmise their beliefs by their actions. I am wondering why the tape appears to have made its way to the media before the police. The police will have to verify its date, time and authenticity. I would like to hear a police response to this tape, but they seem to be avoiding the media since the search. Thanks, Michael

In regards to the 2:30 text, It was Debra herself, ( although we know how she struggles at times to keep her story straight) that the police did question her about burned clothing, and she says they showed her the clothes, and asked if she recognized the clothes. She stated I hope they aren't "real". In addition, at that same interview, she states that LE also showed her what she described as a "doppler" map of phone pings and a record of a text/call coming from one her alleged stolen phones at 2:30am. She says SHE didn't make the call, but the person who "took" Lisa made the call.
Surmize that the if this sighting is true the man in white emerging, I would think with all the other evidence, cadaver dog positive hit, moms inconsistient statements, burned baby clothes, all leads to me that this sighting supports the possible scenario of a deceased baby Lisa remains being disposed of NOT abducted.

Do you know if the area the the tape shows the man in white emerging from the woods is an area that investigators have priviously searched for Lisa?
Is it also possible that the police may have already viewed this tape of the man coming out the woods, and just have not discussed it publicly?

Do you know if the area the the tape shows the man in white emerging from the woods is an area that investigators have priviously searched for Lisa?
Is it also possible that the poli..."
The investigative steps by the police clearly indicate that they are searching for a body, stranger abduction or not. I do not know if that area has been searched. The presence of this possible third party can be interpreted different ways. It is possible that the police may have already seen this tape. If they have, and did not rule this out, I would imagine they would ask the public if anyone had any information. Although the image cannot really be seen, someone may know something. There may be reasons for keeping this quiet, but it would appear to be in the best interests of the investigation to identify this man as soon as possible - which, as you point out, the police may have already done. I think more "new information" will emerge. Thanks, Michael

Michael, in your opinion, what type of surveillance tape is this? A rest area? A store cam? Is this in a residential area? I cannot seem to find much out as far as where this tape originated and location? Has the news media (ABC?) released party identity that provided this video if the KCPD didn't release it?

The camera appears to be a gas station/C store exterior security cam. I have not heard who owned the camera. Thanks, Michael

Thanks Michael

Did Kansas City Police know before submitting the Affidavit and other docs that the judge was not going to allow them to be sealed?
Could this be the reason it was worded the way it was?
It seems to lack a lot of substance, for a lack of a better word, and I'm now wondering if perhaps that's why. Thoughts?
I suppose it all depends on when they filed their motion, and when the judge denied their motion. Or if they suspected the judge would deny their motion.
I was actually surprised to see the documents made public. Were you? I wonder why the judge didn't seal them. I've seen them sealed in some missing persons' cases.
I read in a Kansas Star report today that the family attorney, Cynthia Short (local counsel working with Tacopina) believes baby Lisa is still alive. What do you think of her statement, after the cadaver dog 'hit' on the carpet?
http://www.examiner.com/missing-perso...

Could it possibly be that the man emerging from the woods tape is irrelevant to the investigation? Perhaps police have viewed this tape, identified the man already, and discounted it.
Bellalina, I agree. When ever I hear exclusive, to me, it means money exchanged. ABC paid for the tape? Why would the procurer of this tape only send to one media station and not the others? Why 3 weeks later? Certainly by now would all security cameras would have been checked by LE from all entities that had them in and around the area? The location of the tape is very close to the first sighting at 12:15.
I too remember that statement from Jeremy. In therapy, as well in police interview techiques, I am sure that any well trained investigator knows quite a bit about body language, and what statements can infer. Just yet another tool for them.
I want to wait and see if LE comments on this video. But I won't hold my breath. They have not come out at all to negate or confirm any details of this case on the evidence. KCPD has really no obligation to be transparent in this investigation if in doing so interferes with the investigation.

I do not think the PI or Attorney would provide the tape. If it was legitimate evidence, it would be in their clients' best interests to give it to the police. If it is not legit; they would only be creating more trouble for themselves. There are so many possibilities.
Please do not apologize for the long post. The more thoughts we share, the better the conversation. And yes, let's stay hopeful. Thanks, Michael

Did Kansas City Police know before submitting the Affidavit and other docs that the judge was not going to ..."
Isabelle, Great to hear from you. Congrats on your great coverage of this case on examiner.com The police most likely did consider that the affidavit would not be sealed; that is always a risk. So you are probably correct that the wording was designed to not reveal any information they felt would hurt the investigation. The way it was written, I did not see any reason to seal the affidavit. It was very broad. Attorneys must represent the best interest of their clients, so I understand the attorney trying to dispel suspicion. The problem is that such statements give the appearance that they know something that is not being shared by the police. The attorney's statement after the cadaver dog hit sounded logical and has certainly raised some questions. This afternoon, I spoke with a dog handler who does these searches; he expressed some concern with the hit and how it was presented in the affidavit. The next step by the police should be revealing. Thanks for helping to keep us informed. Michael

Could it possibly be that the man emerging from the woods tape is irrelevant to the investigation? Perhaps police have viewed this tape, identified the man already, and discounted it.
..."
Yes, the man emerging from the woods may be completely unrelated. I recall many times in my career when something appeared to be critical to a case, only to later be deemed unrelated. I do not know if this tape has be verified as true and correct. You are right about the police and media. The public wants all the information, but the police first responsibility and obligation is to the investigation. Thanks, Michael

Awesome response.
We have learned, and were taught by the Casey Anthony case that justice and media, is a good recipe for success. If manipulated correctly, justice is served by a blackberry in the courtroom, with many sending advice each and every moment for a DEFENSE. Well, for me, for lack of a better word don't "gel" with all of that. In my opinion, Debra is manipiulating the media to garner attention on behalf of her defense. We, the public. But we aren't that stupid.
I respect your silence, (LE silence) and also respect your professionalism as to not get into great detail on this aspect on your blog. Your respect for the KCPD and all their work in this case is very telling, and your silence of the probative evidence is very telling as to what you reveal here on this blog. Thank you for what you have shared, and also what you have not....what you have not shared is more much telling.

Awesome respons..."
Irisheyes, Thanks for all your great input. I must admit that I am not sure how to respond to your last post. I look forward to continued dialog. Thanks, Michael


In most missing children cases usually the police do give public media updates. In this case , there has been no comments made publicly by KCPD.
"Steve Young said he can’t comment on what media outlets are reporting or discuss what’s going on in the investigation" “I really cannot comment on what the detectives know and have done,” Young said Sunday.
.Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/23/....
Can you give your opinion as to why Captain Young and LE remain so quiet? What is this indicative of?


Would you mind answering a couple more questions? I know that you have a very extensive background being a 14 year veteran with the FBI. Can you explain the difference between the different types of dogs that are being used in this case? The language given, as per your article, is that an FBI cadaver dog was used and a positive hit was made for deceased remains?
Why is their so much controversy swirling about these results, and even Tacopina is making the rounds on National TV disputing, and almost completely dicounting the result of the hit inside the Irwin home? Can a dog really hit on toenail scrapings, fecal matter among other things that is part of the decomposition in itself?
Attorney Short also discounted the cadaver hit due to the fact that LE investigators while executing the search, did not take up and carpet swatches in the area of where the hit was. Most experts that have spoken concerning these cadaver dogs say they are almost 90% accurate. What are your thoughts based on your experience with these dogs detecting the presence of a deceased body previously being in a location? Thanks so much for answering my questions.


Thanks. It appeared to me that LE was definitely trying to make this a sterile search, including the dogs....asking for a no fly zone while dogs were on duty not to distract them. I would venture to guess, that the credentials of this dog, if FBI trained, were pretty solid. You mention in your article that the first job a defense attorney does in this type of case is try to quash the warrant.First, were you surprised that Tacopina or Short didn't try to "quash" the warrant? Also, do you believe that either attorney was apprised of the "positive hit" inside the Irwin home prior to the search on Wed?
Considering the *potential evidence that investigators retrieved from the home, if this evidence is corroborated with other evidence, pointing to the possible scenario that the was crime committed in the home, can the defense block the evidence from being admitted in trial?
Still wanting to know what your opinion is of the tape that surfaced. Is it your opinion that it is related to this case?

Thanks. It appeared to me that LE was definitely trying to make this a sterile search, including the dogs....asking for a no fly zone while dogs were on duty not to distract them. I wou..."
The attorney would try to "quash" if and when the evidence was brought to trial, via a suppression hearing. This is when they would attack the affidavit or other aspects of the search.
Attorneys often try to block evidence from being admitted into the trial. There are many tactics for doing so. A search warrant is generally the "safest" way to obtain evidence. But, nothing is guaranteed.
As for the tape - it may be related, but I have my suspicions. The timing and the way it appeared in the media, before the police concern me. Also, there was no date/time stamp (at least I did not see one.) The police will have to review this tape for authenticity.
As you seem to enjoy police procedure, please allow me to shamelessly plug my crime novel, Midnight Sin. It is replete with police procedures. I am confident you will enjoy it. Thanks, Michael


Thank you for those kind words. I agree, I would like to see more of the "viewers" become "posters." You and your friends should feel free to invite others to the site. More debate and conversation would be great. Thanks, Michael


400 views and no posts. What does that tell you? People want to read what you have written. Clearly, they are reading it. My camp, is focused on another well known case that you are not covering at the moment on your blog. That case is 2 years old, and we have definitely bonded. We blog to this day on this case. It remains unsolved to date. Baby Lisa captured my attention, and the group is not as interested as of late in the missing case of baby Lisa as I am. But, to have an expert to ask questions to is another matter. They would be thrilled to be able to ask questions to an expert. But baby Lisa is just me. We have our own site, and it is strictly dedicated to this 2 year old case. If you could write an article about this case...you could and would get some definite traffic. I know you would and probably are familiar with the case I am referring to. But it is up to you. Anyways
for now, let's keep our attention on baby Lisa. Thank you for your feed back.

I wasn't criticizing anyone who just reads and doesn't post. I am sorry if I insuinated that in my post. We all are learning and we all care. I agree with you that people read to learn, and this blog is a good way to learn from an expert. I also read on BOC Dina had posted liks to this site, I so hope for justice for baby Lisa. I hope this is ok that I posted this Michael, as I thought this post was directed at me.

400 views and no posts. What does that tell you? People want to read what you have written. Clearly, they are reading it. My camp, is focused on another well known case that you are not..."
I would be happy to look at this case and see if there is anything I can offer. Thanks for your trust and confidence, Michael

I wasn't criticizing anyone who just reads and doesn't post. I am sorry if I insuinated that in my post. We all are learning and we all care. I agree with you that people read to learn, a..."
All is okay. It is great to be communicating with others who share a passion for justice. I appreciate your participation and support.
Thanks, Michael

Has it been confirmed by LE what time Jeremy Irwin actually came home (around 3:30am) If Jeremy left for work at 5:30, wouldn't an 8 hour shift bring him home around 1:30?
RE: The polygraph: Is it common practice to give one poly to one parent and not the other?
RE: Irwins vehicles: Has it been confirmed that the Irwins had 2 vehicles, one being a company truck(van) for Jeremy, and the family car?
RE: Media: What is your opinion on the public appearances of the attorneys basically "defending Debra" on National TV?
Thanks in advance. Irisheyes

Has it been confirmed by LE what time Jeremy Irwin actually came home (around 3:30am) If Jeremy left for work at 5:30, wouldn't an 8 hour shift bring him home around 1:30?
RE: The ..."
Hello Irisheyes. I have not heard a confirmed report of Dad's hours. If his account of his hours are not true, that would be an inconsistency that needed to be explained to the satisfaction of the police. But again, I have not heard this information as confirmed.
Nobody can be forced to take a polygraph. Mom volunteered. Considering what has followed, I doubt Dad will agree to a polygraph.
I have no information regarding the cars.
The attorney walks a fine line. She is trying to protect her client from the court of public opinion. My personal opinion is that attorneys should stick to the courtroom. Sometimes, having an attorney speak for you does not have the desired effect. However, that is strictly a personal decision for the individual and a professional consideration for the attorney. In this particular case, the attorney has raised some questions that are being bantered about. In that respect, she has accomplished what she set out to do. Thanks, Michael

This is from the article and the link to it is below.
"Yesterday they showed me a paper with six pictures on it," Thompson said. "And I picked out the man they had been showing pictures of."
The man in the photograph has been questioned by the police several times, but the other witnesses, a couple who live three houses down from the Irwin house, said the photo did not match the man they say they saw with a baby the night Lisa disappeared.
"No, I don't recognize him," the woman said when shown the photo. "He was tall and slender and, as far as his head, we thought he was bald."
Baby Lisa has been missing since the night of Oct. 3 and an anonymous benefactor is offering a $100,000 reward for her safe return or the conviction of whoever took the little girl.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby...