No spoilers, but I just wanted to say thank you.

In a world where people frequently confuse villains with antiheroes, and antiheroes with heroes -- not just in fiction, but in fact -- it's a relief and a pleasure to read a story about someone who is good despite not being perfect, and deeply satisfying to read about a character who regrets wrongs they've done in their life and looks for a better path without trying to buy their way out with a single quick fix. I don't care if people want to call it cosy, call it wish fulfillment, or call it escapist, I like to call it aspirational. There will always be terrible people in the world, doing terrible things to other people. I like to spend time in a place where there are also people like Penric and Desdemona, and the kind of folks we find around them.

So: thanks for another great read.

I was so excited when I saw the book was out! Bought immediately and got immersed. I always love a Pen & Des story, and this was no exception. It's like reading about old friends and making new ones along the way! Roz was a fun character for sure and I look forward to seeing a glimpse into what he decides to do in a future book; onwards and upwards.

Roz should compare notes with the Corva sisters. Entertainment all around.

I devoured it and my only complaint is I want more. More of the story and more of the family. Please keep Penric tales coming.

On first read only spotted 2 oops. At about 6% Roz says he has a spare horse rather than mule to sell

At about 11% High Orban instead of High Oban

In the battle in the cave sequence, Pen/Des notice in passing one of the bandits has intestinal worms. My first thought was, "oh, here's a good sink for that uphill magic friction/heat; kill the worms." My second thought ran: in the Sharing Knife, Dag has to focus his groundsense carefully to kill/loosen Hod's intestinal parasite, lest he do the lad's insides more harm than good. So who's to say killing intestinal parasites by chaos magic is any easier in WO5G's medical practice? Pen and Des don't want a hurried application of downhill chaos to cause the infected bandit--suddenly full of dead worms releasing their mouth-grips, or otherwise suffering massive damage to said intestines--to die from internal bleeding, do they? Or, not until Pen is far away, which is by no means certain at that point.
Penric and the Bandit is in the action/adventure genera, for sure. Poor, befuddled Roz's growing realization that his "goose" is anything but hapless, right up to the soldiers' revelations at the Oxousa/Orbas border, oh, my. Holds my interest. Must re-read; I'm sure I missed some easter eggs on my first pass.

Richard wrote: "In the battle in the cave sequence, Pen/Des notice in passing one of the bandits has intestinal worms. My first thought was, "oh, here's a good sink for that uphill magic friction/heat; kill the wo..."

But also Des hates killing worms. She even complained about bookworms!

Talli wrote: "On first read only spotted 2 oops. At about 6% Roz says he has a spare horse rather than mule to sell"

Nope, he's thinking in this instance of Pen's horse, which he's planning to steal after dispatching Pen.

Orban, alas, is indeed a slip.

Ta, L.

One of Penric's amusing quirks is a tendancy to preach to unwilling listeners at inopportune times. Twice in Penric's Mission: to Velka in the General's villa, and to the sorceror Kyrato after the battle on the mountainside.
He's at it again with poor Roz in Bandit..

I thoroughly enjoyed this story, thank you. It always makes me smile (or snicker) when Pen tells the absolute literal truth, and his audience (lacking sufficient context), ignores, dismisses, misunderstands him, or assumes he’s lying. :-)

One possible missing word: in this sentence “this bunch is not going to have nearly same sense of humor about it”, should it be “…nearly the same…”?

Thank you for adding another good story to the Penric collection. This one is vaguely similar to “The Orphans of Raspay”, in that Penric is again off travelling by himself and finds himself surrounded by armed hostiles. But this time no sea is involved, and the military brother-in-law fails to make an appearance.

In fact, the story features none of the characters we know (except Penric and Desdemona), and introduces no new characters that we might want to see more of, except perhaps Roz, the somewhat reluctant criminal. I wonder whether you have plans for him, or whether he’s destined to fade into the background.

Penric is constrained to avoid killing people by magic. But he’s becoming fairly ruthless about giving them useless arms. He does it only to bad people; but being deprived of your arms is a pretty awful fate, especially in a mediæval context. The people treated thus might well prefer to be dead, and probably wouldn’t live long, unless they have very loyal friends.

I’m reminded of an old Neil Young song.

Armless, armless, armless
Baby can you hear me now?
The chains are locked
and tied across the door,
Baby, sing with me somehow.

It’s interesting that he’s able to focus accurately on the arm nerves of people in motion not very close to him, when he’s on horseback and so are they. Quite a feat of remote surgery.

I got to the description of the treasure Pen was seeking (and found) and said to myself, "Ha, I knew it! Books!" Yes, we longtime readers know our Penric...

Pen is using his weirding voice much more freely here than ever before. He used to only fall back on it as the last resort, and here he doesn't think twice.

igorama wrote: "Pen is using his weirding voice much more freely here than ever before...."

One wonders what sort of transdimentiona portal allows concepts from Frank Herber's Dune to leak into the WO5G universe? Yes, I'm aware that readers acquire familiarity with numerous fictional universes.

And a possible extra “in” in this sentence: “I believe we should leave immediately, and try to in get as much distance back…”

Is it weird that 'Oxousa' makes me think of kitchen utensils?

Kate wrote: "Is it weird that 'Oxousa' makes me think of kitchen utensils?"

Now that I think about it, it reminds me vaguely of The Far-Distant Oxus, a children’s book from 1937.

Claire wrote: "And a possible extra “in” in this sentence: “I believe we should leave immediately, and try to in get as much distance back…”"

Transposition. Those are some of the hardest typos to spot -- the brain slides over them, and spellchucker's no help. Not that it usually is.

Ta, L.

Lois wrote: “… spellchucker’s no help. Not that it usually is.”

I decided in the early 1990s that spelling and grammar checkers are more trouble than they’re worth, and I turn them off everywhere. I usually reread my own text enough to catch typing errors; if I’m in doubt about spelling, I have dictionaries.

I was down in the dumps yesterday, so I looked into my Kindle to see whether I can muster myself to read that probably depressing urban fantasy I bought a while ago.
Suddenly, a wild Penric appears!
Thank you!!!
(I don't think the series is "cosy". There are plenty of serious matters and danger, and Penric can be quite dangerous when threatened. It is uplifting though.)

Aleksandra wrote: "I was down in the dumps yesterday, so I looked into my Kindle to see whether I can muster myself to read that probably depressing urban fantasy I bought a while ago.
Suddenly, a wild Penric appear..."

Excellent. For my curiosity, did you learn about it from this blog, or did you spot its mention in some other way/venue?

Ta, L.

I've spotted it in my Kindle suggestions. The application tracks my reading list. It seems to be very fast at incorporating new publications. I first noticed Penrics exist when I was looking to reread Vorkosigan novels, translated to Polish about two decades ago. Since then I've read every installment and the WO5G trilogy. I'm not following the blog continously and I read them as they crop up.

You might have some stray Polish readers already for Penric novellas because I'm not the only one. It's the core fandom though, people who read in English, follow Hugo/Nebula lists etc.

Aleksandra wrote: "You might have some stray Polish readers already for Penric novellas because I'm not the only one. It's the core fandom though, people who read in English, follow Hugo/Nebula lists etc."

Ah thanks, fascinating.
I guess copping a good sales ranking on Amazon is good for something, for a little while...
Ta, L.

Sure is! I'll preach to my reader groups as well.

Another fun read in Pen’s continuing story. I hope you have more stories about he and Des. And as someone else mentioned, let us know what direction Roz takes. Thanks!

Hi Lois!
Thanks for another diverting Desdemona & Penric story! I must say, this'un's just Beggin' for a sequel. I can see Roz being Pen's strong left arm...dogsbody, extra set of ears 'round Vilnoc, etc!
Anywho, stay cool & unflooded this summer.

J R Quilcon

Many thanks for this new glimpse into the life and adventures of Penric and Desdemona. I have already read it twice, once very quickly to discover what happened and once more slowly to enjoy some of the details. And I look forward to listening to the audiobook, which will allow me to see yet another view of the tale.

Roz was an interesting POV. Pen has dealt with other folks who have made bad decisions in their lives and who want to turn their lives around, but Roz does seem to have taken things pretty far, but still desires something better. Knowing Penric as well as I do, the nature of the "treasure" that he was seeking was obvious, this being reinforced if there was any doubt by his giving the coin stash to Roz, but watching Roz's reactions was great.

On my re-read I did notice that when Pen and Des were first discussing the possibilities and difficulties in dealing with bandits, the number 40 came up as more than they would want to deal with, perhaps a hint planted somehow by the Bastard?

A final comment for now, this story makes me wonder if the younger guard from Orphans, from whom Pen stole sandals, who was advised by Pen to travel to Lodi and consult with his lawyer friend about finding a new career before being a pirate destroyed him took Pen's advise?

Shortly after I finished reading this I heard the song "Hollow" by icons for hire. I thought, what an appropriate summary. In the course of putting one foot in front of the other Roz has found himself in a situation that leaves him hollow. But instead of continuing to stumble down a path of misery, he looks around and works to find another way, and chooses a new path with what planning and intention he can muster. As life throws divergence after divergence at him, he keeps thinking and choosing and working toward something new and hopefully far more satisfying that where he had been before. He can't see where he is going, but he knows he is making better choices and he is moving away from a path he finds detestable and unsatisfying. It is a change in his thinking, a change in how he moves forward in time, that does seem to lead him to a better and more satisfying path. Any of us can get caught up in the natural rhythms of life, and particularly when things are tough, can find ourselves just putting one foot in front of the other to get through each day, each hour, until without realizing that even our lack of decisions can become decisive at defining our path in life. How to change course, how to choose something else, can seem at times an impenetrable mystery. This Penric story is particularly heartening in that we get to see someone successfully choose their way to a better path, breaking out of old habits of action and thought and actively working toward something better than what he has been dealt. It is perhaps unique to see this kind of change in an older character, not just a young adult forging their initial adult life path. His life, like many, seems very unchangeable, and I think it is so vital that we see his friend, in contrast to Roz, who does not see or take any opportunity for change. Roz has been asking questions about his life; Why am I doing this? How does it make me feel? What do I want to feel? What do I want?; that his friend does not. And it is important to see Roz choose even when it means leaving behind someone he does care about, this comrade who has been by his side so long. Roz sees what his friend is missing, but accepts that he cannot bring his friend to a new path if he does not choose for himself. Roz begins to choose new associations with new and active criteria. I can see why the story ends in the moment it does, but I can also see how it could have kept going and followed Roz even further along. Roz realizes his efforts have brought him firmly to a new path as this story ends. It is just beginning to open a new world of previously unimaginable options and choices to him. The story could have continued on and let us see definitively how Roz chooses and shapes his life moving forward. But that likely would have been more of a dessert. The meat of the story is Roz's awakening to how unhappy he is and choosing to work toward something different, even if it isn't sure what different will look like. There is a lot of strength and bravery in that choice. It is amazing to me that so much can be fit in so compactly. I appreciate that there is also the unredeemable character. The message that a change has to come from within a person, and that some people are unredeemable and incapable of change is vital and well demonstrated in this story. Sometimes people get caught up either trying to change someone else, or hoping that another person would change, and this story is careful to note that Roz's change is because of his internal choices, choices made before he ever even met Penric and choices he continues to make on his own afterwards. Penric isn't changing Roz. He is only helping provide Roz with options along the way. Roz is the one making the choices that re-define his life. Overall I really enjoyed this story and the many thoughts it engendered. I am thankful for how it separates the often grey areas of 'evil is' and 'evil does' and gives Roz a chance to shed all the evils of his life and begin to build up something better, that will hopefully be richer and more satisfying. Also, I love that it emphasizes how getting somewhere we want to be often begins with stepping into the unknown, and intentionally leaving behind where we were. Roz couldn't possibly imagine where he ends up when he began, but he began all the same. It is a wonderful addition to the Penric collection and a story I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.

I found it interesting that you have taken a slightly different tack with the demon-exposition: the information about what a sorcerer can do comes out more slowly and organically, mostly as Roz finds out he's not dealing with a normal city-boy.
The different rhythm was a little disconcerting, as someone who re-reads all the other ones several times a year, but I came to appreciate it.

I did wonder about one thing that hadn't occurred to me with other books that touch on the weirding voice: Pen reflects that the effort must be "paid" in blood, but there is no god nor spirit that seems to be "taking" the payment. So it seems almost more like a *physical* reaction to using shamanic power (like an allergy?) rather than some kind of spiritual balancing.

Loved the book, of course!

Conniption wrote: "I did wonder about one thing that hadn't occurred to me with other books that touch on the weirding voice: Pen reflects that the effort must be "paid" in blood, but there is no god nor spirit that seems to be "taking" the payment. So it seems almost more like a *physical* reaction to using shamanic power (like an allergy?) rather than some kind of spiritual balancing.


Keep in mind that blood is still alive when it leaves the body. And that it dies soon thereafter.

There is much late-night student (and professorial) debate, mostly down south in Easthome where there are folks who know enough about both (such as Pen), about the exact relationship between demonic chaos magic and Great Beast-driven shamanic magic. No one at this stage has yet come up with a Unified Theory Of Magic, though bright sparks are poking at it. At this era, the Royal College of Shamans is earnest about keeping its autonomy from the Temple, so there are political concerns in play as well.

We've mostly only seen ethical shamanism in the tales so far, shamans using their own blood, but they can use the sacrifice of blood of animals or other people as well. (See: Holytree, and Great Audar's war.) A much larger reservoir. It takes only a moment of thought to realize this must also be a matter of great concern to the College, mostly at high levels and behind closed doors.

Ta, L.

Sandy wrote: "Shortly after I finished reading this I heard the song "Hollow" by icons for hire. I thought, what an appropriate summary. In the course of putting one foot in front of the other Roz has found hims..."
In my reading, Penric is a bit more more active in leading Roz to consider changing his life path than in your reading. Yet it is Roz who makes the decision. In my analysis [here I go, channeling the Imperial Auditor evaluating Miles's report at the end of Memory], Roz's moment of truth, the sign he's decided to change even if it is not yet clear to himself, is when he abandons his string of valuable pack mules to grab and save Pen in the battle against the forty thieves. (Yes, it's more like 35 thieves, but this guy named Ali Baba keeps coming to mind). (Say, wern't the forty thieves hiding their ill-gotten gains in some cave?)

Richard wrote: "Sandy wrote: "Shortly after I finished reading this I heard the song "Hollow" by icons for hire. I thought, what an appropriate summary. In the course of putting one foot in front of the other Roz ..."
Thanks for reading through all that even though there aren't any paragraph breaks, (I wrote it in the wrong window) You're a trooper!
In response to your thoughts, I think Pen works to create opportunities for Roz to choose where he can, and knows the Gods will likely create some as well be he knows it is ultimately up to Roz to choose to change. It is made clear that Roz started on this path before ever meeting Pen, So I really see it as self-driven change. But Pen seems to arrive as a sort of aid of the God to provide Roz with opportunities. To their mutual benefit. Pen would not have made it with his goods without Roz's help.

Initially Roz's choices are mostly for his personal betterment. I think the mule decision was the moment he makes a choice for someone else's betterment that is seemingly against his own which appears to reflect that his transformation has reached a new level. But in the line of "God works in mysterious ways" it is made clear that the choice ultimately did benefit him, although in the moment he hadn't been able to see how it would.
He thought the loss of the mules was a sacrifice, and in terms of 'sacrifice to the Gods' perhaps it was exactly that. I like how it is shown that it turns out to be a good thing, as he isn't perceived as a thief when they encounter the soldiers because he doesn't have them. He chose the right thing to do, even when it seemed against his own interest, but being the right thing, it ultimately brought him good karma essentially and protection against things he couldn't have foreseen (but the Gods could).
In my experience, life often works like that, in that you can't imagine what may result from a choice, but often if the choices are good, good things result and vise-versa. That is sometimes hard for people to understand, especially when they are very young. Chance favors the prepared and all. (and sometimes even if you are all good, chance still brings bad things alas.)Notably, the good things are not necessarily what the person wanted or hoped for. Sometimes they get lucky and they are better than whatever they imagined.

As for the 40 thieves and the cave, it's been a long long time since I read that. Now I am curious to go back and re-read for potential parallels and coincidences.

I’ve read your screed and see your points.
Side note: heard of the 40 corrupt pols who stole from the public coffers in Montgomery some decades back? Yep, a case of “Alabama and the 40 Thieves.” /s.

I understand your artistic decision to keep this novella rather low on characters, thus starting and ending with Pen and Des (and Roz) on the road traveling. But I also really enjoyed the little visit to the temple and Pen praying to various of the 5 gods for various members of his family, and the nice touch of Des praying to the Father for Pen's good. Not only did it give readers the assurance that Pen's core family were still doing fine, but Des being willing and able to pray to the Father instead of pulling into a "ball" inside Pen when in the presence seems to indicate that she is feeling more self confident and secure in Pen.

I loved the chance to see Penric at work at his Divine job. I also liked the simplicity and focus of the story -- meaning that in previous tales, Pen's adventures had large stakes that played out in grand scale -- here what is at stake is one soul, arguably as important to the Five Gods. It is so true that everyone can start again no matter what is behind them. "Future self" is a wonderful turn of phrase and concept. Also, the battle against the thieves was pretty thrilling! I missed the whole Ali Baba and the 40 thieves reference, which was very clever in retrospect. All in all, I would put this one near the top of the list of Penric stories. (I peeked at the you tube, and I enjoyed your reading. Yes, side views are not friendly to those of us over a certain age, but I thought the happy audience was a lot of fun to watch from the front or side)

Read “Ali Baba.” If Penric needs to take care of the 40 thieves, he should have brought along his house servant. Ali Baba’s servant (once he can afford her) kills them all; Ali is basically a bystander after he inherits his brother’s place because the thieves kill said greedy brother, No love lost between them, however.
Parallels: Ali, seeing the thieves approach, abandons his asses. (Then climbs a tree to hide). Thieves have saddlebags weighted with gold and silver (like Roz). The cave is illuminated by a light well in the top of the rock. (Which collapsed in the one Penric explores). Not one word about old manuscripts in Ali’s cave, however. Did no spot much else re parallels. Ali never consults a map; Pen and Roz don’t encounter oil jars.

Richard wrote: "Read “Ali Baba.” If Penric needs to take care of the 40 thieves, he should have brought along his house servant. Ali Baba’s servant (once he can afford her) kills them all; Ali is basically a bysta..."

Except for a chance congruence of numbers -- calculated to be more than Pen could handle, but not more than the army of Trigonie could, nor quite enough yet to start warlording in the area -- this is what is called a false cognate. Looking for 1:1 correspondences will be an exercise in what I have come to think of as fantasy academics, because academics with a pet theory are very prone to it.

Fun game otherwise, granted.

Ta, L.

Another heartfelt thank you to Lois in this thread - Thank You! No idea why someone would use "cozy" in the same context with Penric. If not for Penric, things would go south extremely fast and excruciatingly violent.
Violence is easy (entropy? downward demonic magic?), setting things to rights in the right way is hard.
The Bastard was even more generous than usual this time around. For His entertainment, doubtless. Thanks again!

Not to be foolish, but at which point should we start worrying about unexpected zealots taking the WO5Gs a little too literally and starting a cult IRL ? Granted, this particular religion offers very little (none) space for abuse of any sort...

AND thank you for the youtube link - having read the book, at last, now I can enjoy the actual reading...

Note: was wondering about the Ali Baba and the 40... bandits myself a bit, thank you to Richard and to Lois for the clarifications.

Brzk - I vaguely remember someone saying WOFGs was their chosen religion.

Hmmm. I just found out that I am not worried quite as much as I thought. In our world though The Bastard will be the head of the pantheon, having the overwhelming majority of devotees, maybe.

if my eyes serve right, someone at Dreamhaven has thought of a nice printed tablecloth for the reading, which after a while registers as patterned with merry skulls. Fitting, as Penric is not cozy at all. One wonders how many of the front row of attendees are covert learned devines posing as whitehaired citizens.

Brkz wrote: One wonders how many in the front row of attendees are covert learned devines.

Not many. Maybe just one. I understand demons get very<\i> uncomfortable in close proximity, and very few are as disciplined as Desdemona.

Richard wrote: “Not many. Maybe just one. I understand demons get very uncomfortable in close proximity…”

As I understand it, learned divines are not necessarily sorcerers, and I suppose most of them are not. For example, Learned Eginah in this latest story is not.

Jonathan: Right you are. I wrote before I had any coffee this morning (long story). Also, on my iPhone I cannot copy/paste comments; I had to manually enter Brzk’s and messed up manual formatting to boot.

Richard wrote: "Brkz wrote: One wonders how many in the front row of attendees are covert learned devines.

Not many. Maybe just one. I understand demons get very uncomfortable in close proximity, and very few ar..."

See my post. My, the reply button on this iPhone is sooo tiny.

Richard wrote: “I wrote before I had any coffee this morning (long story). Also, on my iPhone I cannot copy/paste comments…”

Tea and coffee are two childhood aversions that stayed with me: I don’t drink either of them. I drink cold milk with breakfast.

To access the Web, I normally use my computer, a tower system with a proper keyboard and two good-sized monitors. I have an iPhone, but I use it as little as possible: tiny screen, nasty keyboard, bleah.

Let both of you down, unwittingly. My apologies. Also, coffee _and_ tea.