Carol’s Comments (group member since Jun 05, 2013)

Carol’s comments from the Ask Carol McGrath group.

With fiction you go for the important events. With good factual biographical work you must footnote accurately and state where you speculate. And back up that speculation too. Fiction is easier and you choose the story angle and make every scene matter. You absorb research into a good page turning story.

These events are included briefly in The Swan-Daughter and fun to write. I posted your copy today. Let me know when you receive it. No customs if you write printed matter on the parcel. Enjoy.

It is possible that she was a sister. She certainly could make a good story. I shall send Swan-Daughter at the weekend. Just remember it is fiction!

Gos patrick changed sides back and forth and it was a political strategy to keep him on side for the Normans. Cousins may have survived. Gospatrick did not. The Aetheling was another who found shelter in Scotland and switched sides to and fro. William wanted support from the great in the North and we cannot say whose was the policy followed. Alan did not hold all of Yorkshire and Northumberland as tenant in chief. In fact his portion was modest. He did have extensive lands elsewhere after the Conquest through his alliance with Gunnhild , her mother, Gyrth or as spoils of war. The story of William's fall from his horse in the battle is cited in the Carmen which was a Norman praise poem probably written for Matilda's coronation or when William returned to Normandy in 1067. It may not be accurate in detail but I think Poitiers may have referred to it. In the chaos of battle it may be difficult to identify a particular person as the culprit but it is an interesting thought that both Gyrth and Boulogne were to hand as both are major characters. For story telling all this makes for massaging the creative juices. Great stuff. Fictions maybe feeding fictions, up to a point. Finally the last kick V William was the Earls' Rebellion of 1076 and you are correct in saying it is interesting that Alan was uninvolved. In my novel I have him at Dol and in great danger because of this. Ralph Gael tries to persuade him but of course Alan supports William, his own cousin after all, in the aftermath and siege of Dol that follows.

This is a treasure trove of ideas for Paula. I think there were Bretons up there by 1086 with lands as sub tenants but there was also The Bishop of Durham. Not sure if he was English by descent or Norman. When I am back in England I shall check out those holdings again. Yes, I remember them being held by ex Norse or Breton tenants.

It is superb and if you have time to look there are many others from Zoe, all informative.

What a delightful group of stories. How I wish I had more time to write them into another novel. Yet I am planning a non fiction and may be able to incorporate some of all this into it. Thank you for your continuing interest.

And that reference in The Song of Roland too! I suspect our Alan was a very important noble at William's cout. Yet he seems passed over. You know the Swan-Daughter is available on kindle but remember it is fiction even if intelligent, I hope, fiction. Pb in December.

That is really interesting .

All interesting and still jury out on some things. Love the poem. Thank you for all this and yes I have read the Wikipedia stuff on Elizaveta and also information in books by Russian writers . I have also read The Russian Primary Chronicle as well. I research these days in The Slavonic Studies dept in Oxford. It is all fascinating stuff.

Moreover, Elizaveta of Kiev aunt to Vladamir who circa 1072 married Gytha Godwinsdatter, daughter of King Harold, was wife to Harald Harthrada and when widowed after Stamford Bridge married to Swein Erithson of Denmark. Very interesting relationships at the Danish court when my heroine rolls up there after the exile of 1068 and siege of Exeter.

Interesting but the jury is out on Matilda's lineage without proof and Richard Sharpe whose work is accepted by academics does believe that Matilda was the daughter of Alan of Richmond and Gunnhild Godwinsdatter. Until proven otherwise, interesting as this may be, I personally adhere to Sharpe's position. It would be utter speculation to suggest Alan bequests lands to the daughter of Queen Matilda because he reportedly liked her etc. The suggestion is unsubstantiated I suspect. But then much of all this is speculative as truthfully what do we really know.

This is just to say thank you all for commenting , supporting and joining in with these discussions. I have a deadline to write to. So for now will not be posting. Along the way I learned much and I hope others did also. I received a few emails too from academics on thevsubject of Alan and Gunnhild.

To conclude the Count Alan /Gunnhild discussion it would appear that thought on the elopement now is that Haskins Journal and Richard Sharpe who suggested an earlier date for their elopement is well favoured with scholars and approved by the experts including the expert on Count Alan ,, Keats -Rohan. Sharpe's argument is regarded by many scholars as scholarly and well supported and clearly reasoned.

Although I write fiction I am reassured by this as the background that underpins the fiction The Swan-Daughter,a story of Alan and Gunnhild and of course Alan's brother is based on the suggestion of a 1070 s elopement from either Wilton or Romsey Abbey, probably Wilton. My novel is fiction though carefully researched. And as Fay Weldon said of the novel The Handfasted Wife 'what times they were'. I hope when I open the discussion again we can return to social history of the period, sailing, castles, feasts and recipes , costume and such topics. Until then thank you for your contributions and I hope in due course you will return to Daughters of Hastings and to further discussion. And now...I sign off...to write...a story or two...

Oh I think that is arguable. There will be all sorts of claims there, Zoe. After all the world is round. As for Neill Oliver that is an overview. As far as it goes it is absolutely fine. Read my post on scribbling-inthemargins.blogspot.com This is about intermarriage and like the programme you refer to it is not for specialists. Too much detail. TMI!

That really is gold. I can't remember the outcome of the Bishop's trial but shall look it up. This is all fabulous for a factual book eventually.

It is and it means that in a factual book I can refer to this. Brilliant stories here too.

I can accept this. However, for the sake of the fiction I have used the Haskins theory. But I shall point out both theories in my author note. The book is written now and it is a story I must insist. It is not a biography by any stretch of the imagination. For a factual book on The Women of Hastings I shall use much of what you suggest of course. It is superb research indeed.

Another mystery.

Charters with youngsters were often where permission was required. So might say 'With the consent of my heir William' or whatever.
from Elizabeth

I think you are right re the death date probably. If so this I can adjust easily as it comes towards the end. It would be 92 in this case. How do you think he died?