The Year of Reading Proust discussion

Throughout his section on the window (and the roof), I kept wondering what Ruskin would think of Frank Lloyd Wright's "Falling Water", with all of it's straight lines. But then it has a sort of tower, so maybe he would think it beautiful after all.

I think his paragraphs on the roof might also be applied to literary pieces. You need to have something to hold the thing together.

Glad to hear you think the prose in this so influenced Proust. It's beautiful and his theories easily understood.

From Lectures on Architecture and Painting:

"…that all good art has the capacity of pleasing, if people will attend to it; that there is no law against its pleasing; but, on the contrary, something (is) wrong either in the spectator or the art, when it ceases to please."

I find Ruskin hard to read; his patronizing moralistic tone disturbs me in the 2 lectures I've tried to finish. But he's art and I'm not; what is "wrong" with me, the spectator, is my question. I opened and read Marcel Proust on Ruskin in the postscript of his preface to The Bible of Amiens, from Marcel Proust On Reading Ruskin, translated by Autret, Burford & Wolfe.

"At the very moment he was preaching sincerity, he was himself lacking in it, not by what he said, but by the way in which he said it. The doctrines he professed were moral doctrines and not aesthetic doctrines, and yet he chose them for their beauty. And since he did not wish to present them as beautiful but as true, he was forced to deceive himself about the nature of the reasons that made him adopt them. Hence there was such a continual compromising of conscience, that immoral doctrines sincerely professed would perhaps have been less dangerous for the integrity of the mind than those moral doctrines in which affirmation is not absolutely sincere, as they are dictated by an unavowed aesthetic preference. And the sin was constantly committed, in the very choice of each explanation given of a fact, of each appreciation given of a work, in the very choice of the words he used—and it finally gave a deceitful attitude to the mind ceaselessly addicted to it. To put the reader in a better position to judge the kind of trickery that a page of Ruskin is for each one of us and evidently was for Ruskin himself, I am going to quote one of those pages which I find most beautiful and yet in which this defect is at its most flagrant. We shall see that though the beauty in it is in theory (that is to say, in appearance, the basis of the writer's thought having always been appearance, and the form, reality) subordinated to moral feeling and truth, in reality truth and moral feeling are there subordinated to aesthetic feelings, and to an aesthetic feeling somewhat warped by that perpetual compromising. The passage is from the Causes of the Fall of Venice."

Several pages later in the postscript Proust describes his initial attraction to Ruskin. It's lovely.

Eugene wrote: "From Lectures on Architecture and Painting:

"…that all good art has the capacity of pleasing, if people will attend to it; that there is no law against its pleasing; but, on the contrary, somethin..."

How long are Proust's comments on Ruskin's work?.. I am debating whether it is worthwhile getting the book, since I would be interested in Proust's text, not in Ruskins.

Kalliope wrote: "How long are Proust's comments on Ruskin's work?.. I am debating whether it is worthwhile getting the book, since I would be interested in Proust's text, not in Ruskins."

The book includes both prefaces to Proust's translations of Ruskin, not the text he translates. The introduction by William Burford is also very interesting; with the exception of this introduction, it's all Proust except where he occasionally quotes Ruskin as an example. The postscript (10 pages) to Proust's preface of his translation of The Bible of Amiens is invaluable to understanding 'l'affaire Ruskin' if you will.

I bought a used hard cover (very good) for $4.99 via a used bookseller listed by Amazon.

Proustitute wrote: "... the complex domesticity of the work; the evident treatment of the church spire merely as a magnified house-roof; and the proof herein of the great truth of which I have been endeavoring to persuade you, that all good architecture rises out of good and simple domestic work; and that, therefore, before you attempt to build great churches and palaces, you must build good house doors and garret windows.

I wonder if this latter quote could be applied to literary works, something along the lines of: before you undertake a massive novel-writing project of the size of the Recherche, you must first hone your talents and skills by doing smaller pieces, learning as you go, etc. etc.."

This quote struck me as well. I can see your interpretation of it holding true, and I can also see it applying in another way -- paying attention to small details, representing the world that we live in with care and careful observation, (view spoiler)[adhering to truth in literature as in art (which he will discuss in more detail in the Pre-Raphaelite lecture), etc. Ruskin's focus on truth is both tied to observation of nature and adherence to/expression of moral principles. (hide spoiler)]

On another note, as a medievalist I enjoyed Ruskin's raptures over the gothic arch immensely. And I loved thinking of him at the podium in Edinburgh, lecturing his audience on their responsibilities to architecture and admonishing them to do better by their city. And finally, his figure showing the squared-off leaves was one of the most effective (and amusing) figures I have seen in a long time. I think Ruskin would have found a way to make even PowerPoints interesting. :)

ETA my brain is fried from teaching, so I may not be making much sense!

Eugene wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "How long are Proust's comments on Ruskin's work?.. I am debating whether it is worthwhile getting the book, since I would be interested in Proust's text, not in Ruskins."

The book..."

Thank you. I would like to find those writings by Proust in French, but I think they always come with the Ruskin text as well. Will continue investigating.

Kalliope wrote:"\ "...I would like to find those writings by Proust in French, but I think they always come with the Ruskin text as well. Will continue investigating."

From a footnote on page xvii of Marcel Proust On Reading Ruskin,
"The texts of two volumes of translations are of considerable rarity..."; there are 12 extant copies, according to the OCLC, of Proust's original translation (and preface in French) of The Bible of Amiens.

Proust, in his postscript to the preface of his translation of The Bible of Amiens,

"Such thought (Ruskin's) which has an object other than itself, which has materialized in space, which is no longer infinite and free, but limited and subdued, which is incarnated in bodies of sculptured marble, in snowy mountains, in painted countenances, is perhaps less sublime than pure thought. But it makes the universe more beautiful for us, or at least certain individual parts, certain specifically named parts of the universe, because it touched upon them, and because it introduced us to them by obliging us, if we want to understand it, to love them."

I am new to the group and didn't realize there was preliminary reading.. Can someone guide me to a schedule of these texts? I would like to catch up as much as possible before the new year.
Thanks!
Sondra