The Bridgeburners discussion

Hey Erikson junkies! :)

Okay lets post our comments, questions and ideas here for chapters one thru five of Forge!

I have to say that even though Erikson didn't use poems to start each chapter, it was a stroke of genius to start this story with Gallan's voice! And that he is telling this tale to Fisher kel tath is doubly brilliant! :)

The line that sticks out in the Prelude for me is "There are no singular tales." And this is in fact the case in Forge, for this is not just "Rake's" story but the story of the Tiste and how they became Tiste Andii, Tiste Edur and Tiste Liosson, as well as the story of the beginning of the beginning!

It will be interesting to see how they form.because you can't get 3 different kind of people as the andii, liossan and edur.

I have to agree Lee, yet you can see the seeds being planted throw out Forge.

I think how chapter 1 starts is very interesting, "There will be Peace!" We know there isn't peace, for if there was there wouldn't be a story!

Finally we're getting to know Draconus and his family! Who knew Draconus had a son? Or that there were three sisters, Malice, Envy and Spite, not two!!!

Meeting young Arathan was interesting to say the least! Not once anywhere has it ever been mentioned that Draconus had a son! I have to say that I liked him a lot and I can understand why he eats his fingers off! His comment to Malice that names shouldn't be curses was perfect! Now my question is WHO is Arathan's mother??? something that I noticed was omitted and I'm sure will be part of this story in the future books!

As for the Borderswords, I liked Rint and his sister Feren for their honest straight forwardness. Same for Ivis for that matter! The same can't be said for the tutor Sagander, I didn't like him at all....he's posion to young Arathan!

So Draconus is taking his son on a journey, one that will see Arathan changed forever. Wonder where they are going??

In chapter two we meet a "young" Osserc and his father for the first time, Vatha Urusander, Commander of the Tiste Legion. To be sure I didn't like Osserc in the Malazan series, because of his detachment to EVERYTHING, I'm so glad we're going to find out why he's like this!

Hunn Raal seems likable enough at first glance, but he's after his own advancement above everything else, and I won't forget this!

Urusander's obsession with the Forulkan (first time I've seen this particular name used for the Assial!) will have a pivotal role later on I think!

Kadaspala is someone we've meet before, if you guys remember him sound off!! :) I find him to be a temperamental artist, who is very bright! His love of his sister is complicated to say the least! Cryl Durav, hostage to Kadaspala's family, who is Spinnick's cousin, was very likable and I could relate to his anguish over Enesdia!

And finally in chapter two we meet the young Purake brothers, along with Lady Hiss Tulla! AH my heart upon seeing young Anomander! :) Here is the best example of the internal dialog of one character verses the internal dialog of another character and what each is really thinking verses what they "think" the other is thinking, Erikson does better then anyone else!

Finally in chapter two we meet our first Azathanai, a somewhat familiar name, Caladan Brood!!! :) This young Anomander is somewhat hot headed, for he won't listen to his brothers about the vow he confronts Brood with. But the vow that Anomander and Caladan make over the hearthstone, as we know, will stand the test of time!!

Kadaspala, was he the one on the Wagon? Or am I getting confused with Aspalara?

Bit weird seeing a young Silchas Ruin.

I was surprised to meet Brood this way, I don't know why, it was an eye opener though.

I must admit to be struggling slightly, I keep reading in between chapters and have struggled to maintain the flow, it is like I should know who everyone is, but I don't, a strange feeling.

YES that's him!!!!! Gold star for Lee!! :))

I'd say it's a bit weird seeing all of them young, yet not! A young "hot headed" Anomander is the one I find the most out of character from whom we've come to know.

I didn't have a problem getting into Forge, I seem to be able to fall into Erikson's stories, he's like putting on a comfy pair of slippers! :)

I have read a lot of reviews and there were more than a few whom were surprised by the darkness of Forge, but I knew it was going to be a dark story, it kinda has to be from all the information that's come to us thru various characters in the Malazan series.

I am not really understanding the whole elevation of mother dark and why thecdark is preferred. Haven't met her yet though. I am on the draconus traveling with son bit.
Not sure what chapter I am up to.

Lee, Mother Dark is difficult, to be sure. Please share your thoughts when you are finished with the book, the dark and night is something I NEED to discuss!

I can't participate here too much because I I can't remember perfectly what happens where so I don't want to spoil anything.

This is pretty much Draconus' story and his son - whoever he is, can't wait to find out! I think his mother's species is told us later on.

The Azathanai explains so much, now we know who the Elder Gods are.

Shelley - the title is called Forge of Darkness, and it's about the Tiste Andii, a dark people, whoever didn't expect this book to be dark didn't put much thought into it!

Lee wrote: "I am not really understanding the whole elevation of mother dark and why thecdark is preferred. Haven't met her yet though. I am on the draconus traveling with son bit.
Not sure what chapter I am u..."

Draconus brought Mother Dark (SE never says what her name was prior to her becoming Mother Dark) into the Dark forest the first time, as a gift to her. I get the feeling/impression that once she discovered the Dark, it was hard to turn back to the light, for in light all flaws are revealed.

And Lee you are in chapter 5! :)

Lori wrote: "Shelley - the title is called Forge of Darkness, and it's about the Tiste Andii, a dark people, whoever didn't expect this book to be dark didn't put much thought into it!"

Lori - Actually I was reading the reviews < http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revie... > and an overwhelming sentiment was the Forge was darker then the Malazan series (if that was possible) and there was not as much humor as we saw with the Malazan military. Which it is on both counts.

We do find some humor among the Jaghuts; with characters such as Haut and Varandas, who would have thought that? :)

I would have! They turned out to be very funny in The Crippled God! But it's true, for the first several books we think of them as monstrous tyrants only. Now I've come to love them.

I meant that with a title like that and knowing it's about the Tiste I knew it would be very very dark, so wasn't expecting any of the humor - The Tiste are very humorless. The humor usually came from the humans, now that I think of it, and the humanity came from them as well, especially the army scenes.

People getting pack raped to death sets a very dark tone. Bit hard to insert humour without getting tasteless. TV news anchors do it all the time and it sounds awful.

Bliss.

Sitting on Bondi pizza, parramatta Sydney, with a golden ale, on my own with kindle snd The Forge.
Chilli prawns on the way.

Whoa!
Sechul Lath and Errasras murdered Hoods wife!
Did we know they were brothers? Doesn't lath become one if the dragons?

I meant doesn't lath become one of the Eliant?

Hahahah! Poor Lee! I prognosticate neural overload within the next 200 pages! It is amazing/scary how Erikson puts all this stuff together! It just flows! Its so unpredictable! But not in a "he pull it out of his ass for shock value" kind of way! There are points in that book that almost get me an aneurysm! But in a good way! My puny mind struggles to process so much brilliance! (I wanna say awesome! But it feels that's all I can say about anything Malazan)


Make sure you sitting down while you read this book!

David Sven wrote: "People getting pack raped to death sets a very dark tone. Bit hard to insert humour without getting tasteless. TV news anchors do it all the time and it sounds awful."

Hey Dave, I get your point, but SE does have a way of making you laugh in spite of yourself! For example at the end of Reapers Gale when Beak saves all his "friends" and Sgt Hellian, who had passed out during the fire works, thinks that everyone is playing a joke on her because everyone's hair is dyed blond. Even thou I've read that sceen four or five times, I still laugh my butt off!!! :)

Lee wrote: "Bliss.

Sitting on Bondi pizza, parramatta Sydney, with a golden ale, on my own with kindle snd The Forge.
Chilli prawns on the way."

NICE!!!!!!!!!! Good for you Lee!!!!!!!!!

Lee wrote: "Whoa!
Sechul Lath and Errasras murdered Hoods wife!
Did we know they were brothers? Doesn't lath become one if the dragons?"

I KNOW Lee, what a crazy scene!!!! NO we didn't know that Sechul and Erranras were half brothers!!! And we also didn't know that Grizzlin Farl was Sechul's father!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...And no Sechul is NOT an Eliant!!!

Okay to get back on track here, in chapter 3 we meet Korya Delath, Sandalath's cousin and a member of House Drukarlas. Korya is the first Tiste to become a hostage to a Jaghut, Haut (Hood's brother). During her reflections there is a reference to Omtose Phellack, the Empty City, this is the first time I have read anything that named Omtose Phellack as a city, not a warren, very interesting!

We're also learning some Tiste history when we meet the Jheleck passing Haut's tower. The Jheleck or Soletaken are supposed to supply hostages to the Tiste since they lost the war, hmmmmm I wonder who these Jheleck become!!! An interesting tid bit that we learn is that there was a civil war among the Jheleck and there was a slpit between the two groups, the southern Jheleck become the Jheck. Haut makes a comment that the Jheleck are "Vitr-born" soletaken who worship the beast Gods...

The final section of chapter 3 we meet Galar Baras, a captain of the Hust Legion. His musings about the Forulkan are spot on and I recommend a re-read of the section if you don't remember what I'm talking about (pages 75-76). During his mussings he makes referrence to the priests among the Forulkan, called the Assail! Galar is traveling with the commander of the Purake houseguard, Kallaras to the Hust mines to request a sword be made for Anomander.

Almost forgot, Haut says that he "in the words of the Dog Runners" made Korya into a Mahybe! Wonder what he plans to do!!!???

In chapter three we finally meet young Orfantal!! And his mother Sandalath and grandmother Lady Nerys. After reading this whole scene, it becomes clear why Sandalath losses it in tCG! Lady Nerys is horrible to send Sandalath away without allowing her to say goodbye to her son! And then to be making her a hostage at this age is terrible and not to mention that she is hiding Orfantal's father!!!!

During Sandalath's journey, she remembers being a hostage in the Purake household and thru these scenes we finally get a picture of Lord Nimander! I thought it was awesome to learn that Rake named his son after the grandfather!

Finally all the stones Sandalath had in the jugs almost broke my heart!

Shelley wrote: "Hey Dave, I get your point, but SE does have a way of making you laugh in spite of yourself!"

Oh, I love the Malazan humour. But we don't see too much in this book. Then again the book's about Tiste, and the Tiste tend to be rather serious.

Hey Dave! No we didn't get to see the Malazan wicked since of humor, but they weren't only the source of humor, we had characters like Pust, Kruppe, Tehol and Bugg that made us laugh! I think that surprisingly the Jaghuts (i.e. Varandas) and Grizzlin Farl were humorous! We'll have to see where SE goes with everything..... :))

In chapter four we meet the Wardens of the Vitr! This is a pretty important chapter and should not be read over fast! What I'm surprised about is the fact that the Vitr is located in the Kurald Galain!? Earlier (in the other Forge discussion) Lori was asking what the Vitr was, is anyone else not sure what the Vitr is/was??

Yes, I forgot, the Jaghuts were quite funny. The Vitr I believe is intruding into Kurald Galain. Its not supposed to be there. I think it has to do with Chaos.

Im with david, it destroys for the sake of destroying! But it altos appears to be conscious........... scary stuff indeed! Also! Spinnock! And some incest!

It was ICE that introduced us to the Vitr at the very end of Stonewielder and also in Orb. From what was learned in these two books we know that the Vitr is alive with life, does anyone remember how that life got there?? I'm asking because by remembering this key fact, we can try and figure out what the Vitr is now....

I remember Vitr from the Ice books. But I can't remember where the life was coming from. Has to be leaking in from another warren right? Maybe from Chaos?

Yes and no, not from Chaos. Do you remember who was pulling the life forces from the Vitr in Orb??

Yes, the wizard, I forget his name. The one we all hated at Pale. Was there as an agent at whiskey jacks death.

Tayschren?

No wait, he wasn't pulling life forces from it, but he was able to enter it, there was a race that revered him.

Something to do with demons.

Maker? So maybe the Vitr is some creative force. Maybe its own warren? Maybe it creates life but the energy involved is so great that it dissolves it as soon as its been made? I think you are thinking of Tayschrenn Lee? From memory he was thrown into Chaos and then reemerged by the Vitr.

My head hurts.

Good job Lee! :) Tayschrenn or Ty before Orb, in Orb he's Thenaj. We meet Thenaj at the Shores of Creation saving demons from the Vitr. The Demons appeared in the Vitr and Thenaj was able to enter and save them. The ones he saves do seem to worship him, or more just very protective of him.

Do you remember what he had learned about the Vitr and why he didn't want to leave? They're connected!:)

Hahahahahahhaahahahahhahhahhhaaaaa....to funny Dave!!! :) Sorry I must have been typing when you posted your comment, because it sure wasn't there earlier! :)

Maker was indeed at the Shore of Creation, he's the first being Kiska and Leoman run into!

I'll ask again, do you remember what Ty had learned about the Vitr and why he didn't want to leave? They're connected!:)

The Maker, that's right, didn't it say that the Vitr made everything and was a big pool of power?

That Tay was protecting the shores somehow by saving demons that spawned there, and he gave the ability to one of the demons when he left with Kiska?

But I can't remember how or why they were protecting the shore.

Wasn't Tay's warren the demon warren? It has something to with that but I can't remember. Was it where summoned demons ended up when they were discarded? I know he lost his memory and didn't want to leave because he wanted to keep rescuing them.

Tay lost his memory - Triss has no memory after coming out of Vitr, I've lost my memory just thinking about Vitr. . .mmm.

I can't remember if Tay was protecting the shores from the vitr, or the vitr from the shores. I think that important. Bit thinking it is a power source

I am at a trade show and standing here deep in thought. People are probably wondering what I am doing :)

You're right Tay did lose his memory and some how the skinny bint Kiska reminded him who he was, I think she had the hits for him, and he was up and off back to civilisation.

Still don't think we answered shells question though.

You're right Tay did lose his memory and some how the skinny bint Kiska reminded him who he was, I think she had the hits for him, and he was up and off back to civilisation.

Still don't think we answered shells question though.

You guys are almost there!! Good job!! :)

Ty was saving the demons that just randomly appeared in the Vitr. When Kiska is trying to get Ty to leave he tells her that he KNOWS how the demons are appearing there, which is why he doesn't want to leave! When magic users summon a demon then releases it, the Vitr is where they're released to!

Now I bring all this up to bring it back to Forge! :) In chapter four we learn that the Vitr is a stagnate place where nothing EVER comes out of the Vitr, then one day something DOES come out of the Vitr, first a demon and then T'riss and a dragon!! What's going on????

I know I'm coming into this late, and I'm only on page 40, but it's kinda freaking me out that Anomander Rake is described as having a "sun-burnished face, the color of pale gold."

What else is different? If I were a new reader to the series, I would not be imagining Kurald Galain as a land of perpetual darkness - the sun is still visible? Like I said this is freaking me out (and I kinda love that).

Hey Ry!! I know it's kinda friggin weird, BUT for most of us we've had some time in between tCG and Forge! :) So yes it all seems surreal but this is Darkness' true story...there was light in the world of Kurald Galain!

I LOVED Forge, I'm one for history, and for thinking about how something got to it's present day incarnation, and that's why this book and series will be so special! We've all wondered WHAT went SO wrong with Darkness?! Why would Mother Dark turn away from her Children?! How come Light and Dark are at war with each other?! What was Draconus' role in all that happened!? How did Shadow become shattered?? I could go on but I think you get my point, we are going to learn all about that and WAY WAY more!! :)

Shelley wrote: "I have to say that even though Erikson didn't use poems to start each chapter, it was a stroke of genius to start this story with Gallan's voice! And that he is telling this tale to Fisher kel tath..."

would I be the only one guilty of skipping the chapter intro's. sometimes they're enjoyable but they usually go over my head, and I'm eager to see the next point of view or the change of setting. do you think If you read them individually they would link together somewhat?