The Bridgeburners discussion

Here we go with Part two! Now we're getting to the good stuff!

Lmao at anomander schooling Syntara.

Sukul is talking about her wayward sisters and that her mother doesn't want her to be the same. Her sister is Menandor right? Sure I spelt that wrong. But I thought Menandor was a daughter of Osserc? I need to re read malazan.

ahha the birth of the Tiste Liosan. Not a humble start then.

The whole temple scene was quite amusing! I wonder exactly what T'riss said to Syntara!! And yeah not an humble start at all!

What I wanted to ask you Lee was at this point which group do you think the Tiste Edur are??

Hmmm, I originally thought the Tulla Hold, but we haven't learnt much about them, apart from Rancept and his little trip underground with Sukul. Not sure if that is chapter eleven, I have just read that, so might need the new thread starting.

Now, back to your question, I was thinking it might be Urusanders Legion, that or the Hust hold.

I dont think it will be the borderswords, and we don't know enough about those at the Citadel. We know it is not the Shake, or from the Purake or Draconus Hold.

so I am going with the commanders of the Urusanders legion.

Okay I'll throw up the next section!

Thinking back on the three groups and their differences, I'm thinking it's going to be the Deniers! The way SE has been discribing them in Forge, as forest dwellers, the clothing and style of hair just remind me of the Edur!

Oh that underground journey with Sukul was quite interesting wasn't it!! I couldn't believe the tree witch or should I say the Queen of Dreams!!!

P.S. Lee if you're already into chapter 11, then I'm yelling at you for not posting more!!! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA....

So ends High Fist Shells rant! :)

Hang on! Wasn't the Deniers in Chapter 11? That is why i didn't say anymore. That was why I originally thought the Tulla Hold was the beginning of Edur story.

The Deniers are writen about thru out Forge, the only "Denier" we've meet is Rancept, whom I really liked. I do like Hiss Tulla but I'm thinking Captian Tulas more then Hiss Tulla only because we meet "Tulas Shorn" in the Malazan series, member the dead dragon and Ruin calling each other "brother" in tCG? And in the future the Edur were the only ones who "shorn" each other. Plus in the front of Forge where the family trees are, House Tulas is listed as Shorn Tulas, so something happened!

This all food for thought/speculation, which I'm enjoying getting to do with you Lee because we weren't able to do this before! :) I can't wait to say to you how you like waiting for the next book with me!?! Hahahahahahhahaahaaaa.... ;-)

I know this isn't the place, but WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO Red Country was just delievered, my BFF ordered it for me from the UK!!!! YAY I love the Bloody Nine!!!!!

I am staying off Abercrombie at the moment, I want to read The Heroes as part of the group read. I was way ahead with BEst served cold and missed discussing it.

Am enjoying being able to chat about Forge, but it has certainly made me feel that a re-read of Malazan next year is on the cards. There are a couple of people who have said they would like to do it again as a group read.

"The Deniers are writen about thru out Forge" have you finished already?

Hmmm, so then the Ursander Legion must become Elient Soletaken. Kagamandra Tulas and Sharenas Ankhadu. Wasn't all the Ankhadu family Elient Soultaken? I am sure Sukul and Meandore were, but can't remember the third sister.

I don't see your link between Tulas Shorn and the Edur. I don't remember any Soletaken Edur. I can see Ruin calling Tulas and Ankhadu brothers but I can't see how that links to Edur.

Yeah I read Joe's series years ago, I love, love LOVE his work! I didn't do the group read cause I was burnt out from the Malazan series, plus it was summer time here! :) I've read all his work, and the The Heroes was the first book I was able to finish after finishing the Malazan series, so I thank Joe for helping me get over Steve! :) My fall into fantasy was Feist, GRRM, Joe and Erikson, there's a theme here! ;-)

Yes I've finished Forge already, that's why I said I lead a group discussion here! You KNOW a SE book after you've read it at least twice! :) HINT, HINT!! Remember I've read the Malazan series THREE times, I keep saying this, but having done so I feel like I really KNOW what happened at the end of tCG!

We know from the future that some of the Liosan become Soletaken, just like we know that Anomander becomes Soletaken! I thought before and said as much that Mother Dark "turned away" when Rake became a Soletaken, there's more to it I see that now, but that's just not all of it and yet not! On the family tree page I thought initially that there was a typo when Tulas was listed as "Shorn" and not as Kagamandra Tulas, which lead me to think of him and Ruin in tCG and that brother scene and wondering THEN...WHA?? What did I miss??... Also the "shorn" idea made me think of Trull (one of my favorite characters, for all the reasons I love Kruppe, Sgt Hellian, Tehol and Bugg, I LOVE Trull for his humanity!) and the fact that he was "shorn" but also that he was Edur. I think all the sisters you listed are the three sisters of the Edur...dawn, dusk, and dark, yes?

Oh and Blood Eye was also a Soletaken, who betrayed Ruin on the shores of a new relam!

The sisters were Sukul, Menandore and Sheltha (something like that). Dusk and Dawn is right, but I don't think dark is correct. But they are not Edur, they are Elient Soletaken, but not Edur.
In the tree at the start of the book (hard to read on a kindle) who are the parents of the 3 daughters?

I know you have read the series three times and I am sure when you read it through the fourth time you'll understand the real ending meaning :)

Yeah I'm not saying that the sisters were Edur, I'm saying the Deniers become the Edur. What I am saying is the sisters were worshiped (or feared) by the Edur. I'll have to look at Midnight Tides or Reaper's gale again because I can't remember if it was dawn dusk and....something, maybe night?

Oh let me say, read the series again so you can see HOW much you missed the first time thru, I mean you'll have time before SE next book comes out next year! :P

I wanted to talk about what T'riss did to Mother Dark! The fact that T'riss brought Mother Dark some of the Vitr is amazing! How was she able to do this?

Haven't got to that bit or missed it. The question is, how is Mother going to use it. We have seen from Tay that it can handled and there was rumours someone had made a pot to store the stuff.

I think you missed it then because Mother Dark is already using the gifted Vitr, how could she not when it turned her into a true Goddess. Which is how/why Rake's skin turns black and everyone else who presents themselves in front of Mother Dark!!

The fact that T'riss brought Mother Dark some of the Vitr is amazing!

Did i skip pages? I do not recollect much of the conversation between T'riss and MD and do not remember the giving of the gift.

Yes you missed something very important. Up above you said "Lmao at anomander schooling Syntara" right after this scene T'riss visits Mother Dark, but she first talks to Anomander and then Syntara, making her white... Thats the scene you need to go back to so we can figure out WHAT THE HELL the Vitr is!! :)

I remember the schooling, then Syntara goes in to see MD then comes out white and leaves. Then Anomander and T'riss go in, well Anomander follows T'riss. I'll need to look it up on my Kindle. can you send me a key word from that passage to look up to speed up my search?

Lee wrote: "I remember the schooling, then Syntara goes in to see MD then comes out white and leaves. Then Anomander and T'riss go in, well Anomander follows T'riss. I'll need to look it up on my Kindle. can y..."

Ahhhhhhhh??? T'riss/Anomander/citidel/Syntara turning white??? Freezing rain??? It was raining when the encounter occured.

Searching for Anomander will give me a couple hundred returns. I'll search for "freezing". You need exact phrases or unique words on a kindle, it is the down side of skimming back to look something up. That is the only thing I miss about having a book.

That's when Anomander turned black, yes? I mentioned burning questions about T'riss as well. That scene was not meant to be understood, yet. I HATE THAT lol

I just re-read it and I didn't learn anything new. I do remember it, but I dont think it sheds anymore light on Vitr.

So Syntara goes in, then T'riss. Syntara runs out all white after T'riss showed her true desires, passion etc
T'riss shows or tells MD that Syntara is going to cause a schism in faith and that it cannot be stopped. It needs to happen so that it can then be healed. Assuming this ends up a bit of a mis-calculation as the dark and light continue to be split thousands of years later, but for all we know T'riss might mean the healing could happen in a millenium.

Then Anomander goes in, after being told that T'riss had takne blood into the temple, the blood was the Vitr and it must have been in her.
Now MD tells that the the Citadel has been sanctified, which all assumes it was with Vitr, but MD doesn't confirm this. Everyone entering can now see in the dark (so Vitr is carrot juice) and turns you black.

So Assumptions: T'riss is Azanthanai and appears not knowing her history. She came from Vitr and carries it in or is her blood. Way back in ICE book we were told from the Maker that Vitr is the source of everything. So is Vitr the powersource of all creation? Are the Azanthania created from the Vitr and use it to create things, like entire races?

So Shells? I don't think the answer was there to be missed.

T'riss used the Vitr to sanctify both the Cidadel and Morther Dark, not to mention waking up the old River God of the Deniers, so the Vitr made a God out of a human. Maybe it's because T'riss is Azathanai that she was able to first survive her exposure to the Vitr and then bring Mother Dark Vitr, and/or because T'riss was a magic user that the Vitr didn't kill her like it does to everything else (trying to think of the link to Orb and Ty).

Hopefully we learn more in the next book!

Agreed, but we don't know anymore than we did. I thought I missed a page that said.
"Vitr? Why it's Azathanai handcream" said T'riss.

Lee wrote: "Agreed, but we don't know anymore than we did. I thought I missed a page that said.
"Vitr? Why it's Azathanai handcream" said T'riss."

It seemed to have a restorative effect on Tayshrenn in Orb. There's a part somewhere where he dips his hand in and watches it rejuvenate - I think. He has to be Azethanai right?

And yet everything else melts away when it enters the Vitr!?!? I was just trying to get your thoughts on the scene, maybe together we can figure out how first the differences between the Vitr (and Vitr realm) ICE describes and the Vitr that SE is describing! And second wondering how it made Mother Dark into a God without her dying.

I have a feeling the Vitr is very important to this whole story! Why was T'riss exploring the Vitr in the first place?? It's mentioned that she went into the Vitr with another Azathanai, what happened to them? So many questions!

Well the Warrens are created from Krul's blood right? And they are aspected to various dragons (I think). And we have (view spoiler)[dragons come out of the Vitr (hide spoiler)]. Does it have something to do with Krul's blood? It must somehow play a role in the process of creating the warrens maybe?

Wasn't there also an empty suit of armour along side the dragon that is half in the vitr? So who's is the armour and is thus the first reference to a dragon?

Yes K'rul gifted the world with magic and then all of a sudden "things" started showing up in the Vitr! Hmmmm...there has to be a connection between the two events! The suit of Armor and weapon next to the dead dragon was T'riss' and I wondered if she killed the dragon because it was sliced all the way up it's belly!

Maybe T'riss becomes Tiam

Hmmmmmm... Interesting possibility! Damn it but we're gonna have to wait and see!