History Buffs United discussion

Since some of you have expressed an interest, I'll take the plunge and start a topic in this new group.

This is the place for questions, comments, and announcements of new developments in the Legends of the Five Directions series and my novel The Not Exactly Scarlet Pimpernel. If I have giveaways, discounts, or freebies (i.e., advertising), I'll post them in the appropriate promotional thread and not here.

The Legends of the Five Directions series includes:
The Golden Lynx (West)
The Winged Horse (East, Ogodai)
The Swan Princess (North, Nasan again,in process)
The Vermilion Bird (South, Maria); and
The Shattered Drum (Center, Grusha).

All these characters are introduced in The Golden Lynx. You can also find information about my books (and me) on my blog and my website, both accessible via http://www.cplesley.com.

And to all who choose to read my books, thank you!

Following David's example, to jump-start discussion, I've added a bit more description of each book here. First, the summary of The Not Exactly Scarlet Pimpernel, which would be considered a historical romance or time-travel romance if I'd spent more time on the passion than on rewriting The Scarlet Pimpernel.

Have you ever wanted to rewrite your favorite novel—fix the heroine’s mistakes, win the hero’s heart? Nina Pennington does. She is overjoyed when she lands the plum role as the heroine of The Scarlet Pimpernel in a class assignment based on a computer game.Nina knows she can win—until she realizes her one chance for success requires an alliance with her least-favorite fellow grad student, cast as the Scarlet Pimpernel himself.

The game challenges Nina in ways she never anticipated, and that least-favorite fellow grad student starts looking better by the minute. But then, she has always had a soft spot for the swashbuckling Scarlet Pimpernel. Now Nina has to choose: win the game, or take a chance on love?

And here is the summary of The Golden Lynx, which goes beyond rewriting to, in its own way, re-imagine the old adventure stories.

Russia, 1534. Elite clans battle for control of the toddler who will become their first tsar, Ivan the Terrible. Amid the chaos and upheaval, a masked man mysteriously appears night after night to aid the desperate people.

Or is he a man? Sixteen-year-old Nasan Kolychev is trapped in a loveless marriage. To escape her misery, she dons boys’ clothes and slips away under cover of night to help those in need. She never intends to do more than assist a few souls and give her life purpose. But before long, Nasan finds herself caught up in events that will decide the future of Russia.

And so, a girl who has become the greatest hero of her time must decide whether to save a baby destined to become the greatest villain of his.

I love how you're re-imagining the classic adventure novels (the same thing I was trying to do when I wrote "Ballad of the Highwayman" ) So I'm going to ask, is most of "The Golden Lynx" actual history, or did you have to fill in the blanks? I know next to nothing about Russian history ;)

Hazel wrote: "So I'm going to ask, is most of "The Golden Lynx" actual history, or did you have to fill in the blanks?"

All of Golden Lynx is plausible history, in the sense of being credible for its time and place, but only the rough outlines of the chronology, births and deaths of the royal family, who was ruling when where, and so on is actual history, and even then I had to fill in a lot of blanks. We know what Ivan the Terrible's mother looked like, for example, because of a forensic reconstruction, but what Ivan looked and sounded like at age three is anyone's guess. I wrote a historical note at the end explaining what liberties I took and left it at that.

All my main characters are fictional; so are most of the secondary characters, although in all cases I tried to make them as close to reality as possible. Some of the tertiary characters are "real." For them, I stayed true to the known facts and filled in everything else using the same principles I did for my fictional people.

On your first comment, thanks!

Do you find it easier to write historical books where you have a lot of information or less? I know for myself, I like to at least have an outline, but I prefer the stories no one knows a lot about so you get more of a chance to make the story your own.

This is such a huge difference between Russia and even the East European countries, especially in the Middle Ages and even more so in the case of the Tatars, who had vast inventories of bureaucratic and other documents that have vanished almost in their entirety. Moscow and the other great Russian cities were built of wood, and they went up in flames about every 30 years or so, so as historians we are constantly piecing together scraps, like a jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. Is that sky or sea? The only period I've written about, in fiction or nonfiction, where we actually have significant quantities of historical information is the French Revolution—and that was in the context of The Scarlet Pimpernel, which is not too accurate. (Example: Marguerite reports a family to the Tribunal, which executes them on the guillotine at least eight months before the first one went up in Paris. She wows London with a dress in a style that would not be seen even in Paris for another 3 years.)

All of which is a long, circuitous answer to your question that boils down to the only situation I know being the one where I have less information. Which I think I prefer, since it gives me more flexibility. That's one reason I decided to write fiction set in medieval Russia in the first place: I can create a historically accurate but not historically provable picture of a society that remains largely unfamiliar to most people in North America, the UK, and Western Europe.

That said, for the last 35 years or so, this world of 16th-century Russia has been my intellectual "home." I feel completely comfortable here. I had to do a fair amount of research on the Tatars, which I loved (I'm still a historian first and a novelist second). The big problem I face is recognizing what information I'm taking for granted that other people have no reason to know. That's where my admirable critique group comes in....

Do you run into that last problem, too? You've been working with Wallace and his ilk for a while, have you not?

Yes, I have been researching Wallace and the Wars of Independence for about five years now. The first book I wrote about him, I'm no longer happy with, but the research I did for that one turned into the two I published =)

I do run into that problem; it's also problematic because most of the people I have read over my stories are history buffs as well or my mom who hears all my ideas anyway, haha. Mainly I just try to write a book accurate to the time period and anything I think might confuse a reader I note in the author's note in the back. The book I'm working on now, I'm putting in a glossary and historical notes in the back because the story itself, being character driven, I don't like a lot of detail told in the pages. There's enough to get the feel of the setting and all, but if they want any other information, they can read about it in the back or pick up the books from my bibliography.

Yes, moms are great for the ego, not so great for the critiques! :)

I work with two women. One of them knows a lot about 16th-century England and thus can confirm that people in 15XX operated under different constraints from modern people without knowing too much about Russia per se; she's especially good at plot. The other has a contemporary focus in her own work but she's widely traveled and has read a lot in many different periods; she's a character-first writer (which I'm not), so she also keeps my characters honest and rounded. Then I have several friends I can tap once I finish the book; some know more history than others, but even the ones who know hardly anything help me pinpoint the areas I need to explain better, because readers are likely to ask the same questions or make the same objections.

So yes, it's good to have at least one non-history buff in the mix, if you can find one you trust to give good comments.

I'm kind of a characters first writer myself, I like writing dynamics between characters from different walks in life or nationalities. I'm not very good at writing romance (thought most of my books have a little bit of a romantic subplot) so I like to explore other relationships like brother-brother and father-son (both of which are featured heavily in my new book "By Blood or By Bond". My mom is really good at helping with plot (she's a writer too, so it helps) and my friend Mara (who you've probably seen around the group) is amazing at helping me brainstorm and figure out sticky things. I could probably profit from finding a few other readers 'off the street' so to speak. I've been toying with the idea of starting a writer's group and getting all different kinds of writers together so we have a chance to help with things we might not have thought about before.

I'm in the same boat. Both my books have romance in them (the first one has a double romance, present and past!), but I don't list either as a romance, just as HF. That's because I suspect I don't have enough heavy breathing for the true romance crowd, so it seems almost like false advertising. Why disappoint the readers?

I often thank God I'm in the 13th century - when I see other hf novelists have to negotiate a very detailed knowledge on the part of their readership. Like, what happened on Sunday, oops, I moved that to Monday. Much as I love research, that might drive me batty.

On the other hand, I feel I'm open to the charge of too much information in mine. I'm unrepentent, as I only too often am. Different things are right for different books of course, and there's never one way to do things.

I'd call the result in Golden Lynx invisible research. If that's the right way to say it?? Never obtrudes.

I think 'invisible research' is the best thing to have in a historical novel, in my opinion. Because non historians will read HF and too much information might drive them away. As a sometimes punished historian I appreciate books that have a lot of historical information (Like Patrick O'Brian, Nigel Tranter, and Jeff Shaara) but I also love those other authors who can weave a story around a time period instead of events with enough authenticity to keep the hard core history buffs happy, but not so much that it takes over characterization.

Character comes first and last with me. And most of the space in between. Agree there, but I like such books as T.H. White, where he rambles on about castles. He'd get the stick for that these days. I mean to say, there's a range, I enjoy a range.

Bryn wrote: "I'd call the result in Golden Lynx invisible research. If that's the right way to say it?? Never obtrudes."

Thank you! That's exactly what I aim for, there and in every book. No one wants to be lectured, especially in a novel.

I like what I read of Of Battles Past. I didn't see any overkill; the history blended into the story in a very satisfying way.

You and Hazel both got sidelined when the half-dozen books with deadlines landed on my unsuspecting head. But I do intend to finish your books ASAP.

Haha, I totally understand, don't worry I haven't even bought a copy of yours yet ;) I've got me list of new indie books that I need to buy though. After I finish buying christmas gifts, I'll see what I have left, haha ;)

I do like books with deep history though. Sir Walter Scott is definitely one of those to go into long explanations about clothing and castles and the like, but then, I always found it interesting. I learned so much reading Ivanhoe, and found the rules for tournaments especially interesting.

Me too, I like the old fashioned histfics, and I've read more from the 19thC than the 20th. Don't even ask about the 21st. Ivanhoe was one of my earliest loves.

I just received my copy of The Golden Lynx from Amazon, and hope to start reading it tomorrow!

How did you come to the Five Directions shape? - Did you have five stories to tell, or an enormous story that you managed to neatly sort into five? Or other? This is a quiz. It's brave of you to take on five books, from the get-go. (I thought I had two; they burst their seams. I had no idea what I faced when I began). I admire massive projects, so just thought I'd ask about yours.

Sandy, thank you! I hope you enjoy it.

Bryn, as I began to research The Golden Lynx and to learn more about Mongol/Turkic cosmology, I got the idea of writing one book for each direction (including the center). Initially I thought the five stories would be set in the same time and place, broadly speaking, but their characters would not interact. But by the time I got to the end of the rough draft, I had four characters I wanted to follow and a general story arc. Nasan and Daniil also keep horning their way into every story. :)

So in the end there will be a single story line that carries through from beginning to end, even though each book will focus on one or more characters from book 1.

Sounds cool, C.P. I too, commend you for having five whole novels planned out. I have a trilogy and a prospective series of four books (and possibly more) in my head, but most of my books end up being standalone or one or two books. However, I think that the characters from my new novel are going to appear in a prequel as well because I fell too much in love with them ;)

You seem to be a writing machine, Hazel! I can only watch in awe. :D

Well, it's probably because I currently have no other job :P Plus I get quiet hours because I write in the middle of the night when everyone else is asleep. But I enjoy writing so much and when the ideas keep coming, one must do what the muse wishes ;)

Indeed. I wish I could satisfy my muse more often. I no sooner wake her up and get her moving than 50 e-mails arrive—yes, even on Sunday!—and clonk the poor dear on the head.

Today I ignored them, but on Monday it's not so easy. Sigh.

Trying to set up a giveaway for Not Exactly SP, but GoodReads is taking its sweet time approving the thing. Stay tuned.

I know, sometimes it takes them a long time. it depends on what you write in the description. Did you say you would personalize it, out of curiosity? Because they say you shouldn't do that for some reason.

No, I think it was just the weekend. It's approved as of this morning. I thought I would sign the books, but I didn't put that in the description. Is it a no-no?

You can sign then, I always do as does everyone, that's expected, there was just one that I promised to personalize to the winner, but the people who approved it said they don't usually like us to do that for some reason. I don't know why. Glad it's up though! I'm entering!

Good. Thanks for 'splaining. I can't imagine getting a book straight from the author and not wanting it signed, but I admit to still being something of a GoodReads noob after six months. ;)

Well, there's a lot to learn. With me, it was just trial by error. if there's any other way to learn, let me know haha ;)

I just started reading the Golden Lynx! It's already very hard to put down. I'm looking forward to Winter Break, so I can stay up late reading.

I'm not tryling to compete with the SK books I've read and were impressed with. These were the books that resonated with me.

Thanks, Sandra! That's good to hear.

Joyce, welcome! I did not quite understand your comment. Did it become garbled somehow? What is SK, and why would you be trying to compete with it?

I'm about 90 pages into The Golden Lynx, and really enjoying it. I especially like the descriptions of clothing, and how which type of fur a person wore implied his status. I already knew that no one survived a Russian winter without fur, but I never knew there were so many kinds.

The descriptions of Nasan riding across the steppes are also great. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the freedom women seem to have in this society, as well as the way the people blended Islam with their ancestors earlier religion.

Looking forward to a happy vacation of reading!

Thanks, Sandra. May you continue to enjoy it!

Nasan's degree of freedom is already somewhat unusual for an elite urban girl, but since she grew up in a nomadic camp, her expectations were formed by that experience. Nomadic horsemen are not New Age sensitive guys, but they can't afford to be too sexist. When a storm is brewing, your best camel is about to calve, and all the men are off raiding with the khan of the moment, whoever is around—female or not—just has to plough in and deal with it.

Islam is still pretty new among the Tatars in 1534, especially among the nomads, who are Muslim only in name. The towns are a bit farther along in their conversion, but Nasan doesn't really consider herself part of town life....

I like how you say that about the Nomadic women, because I do believe that was true. The same goes for Celtic women. When the men were off at war, they were the ones who had to defend their hearths. A lot of the girls learned to fight next to the boys during war times as well. They might not have been in the thick of the fighting, but a lot of times they were accomplished archers or spear-throwers.

Yes, that's right. Thanks for the reminder, Hazel. Another tradition of warrior women!

I just finished reading The Golden Lynx. Great book! I will write a review in the appropriate place once I've had more time to think about it, but for now, I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it.

While I would have liked to have read more detailed adventures of Nasan cleaning up the streets of Moscow, all the other things that were going on kept me too busy to really miss them.

I was amazed that a book which began in 1534--the year after Queen Elizabeth I was born; an era I've studied for decades--could describe a world I knew nothing about. I would sometimes look at a map and note that your story was set only a few hundred miles away, but often felt like another planet. So much was going on that century, yet most HF sticks with Western Europe. Thank you for correcting some of that loss.

Also, by the end of the book, I found myself intrigued by minor characters like Natalya, Maria and Grusha. I was wistfully imagining hearing more about them--without much hope--when I reread your first post and saw that some will be main characters in future books.

Please hurry up and get them written!

Thank you! How nice to hear!

Yes, Maria and Grusha will have their own books one day. They will also return in book 3, along with Natalya. Book 2, which I'm writing now, is all Tatars all the time. Otherwise their head-spinning politics would become completely impossible to follow.

I'd have loved to detail Nasan's adventures in Moscow, but at 125,000 words the book seemed rather long as it was. But fear not, she and Daniil are arguing right now over what role the Golden Lynx should play in coping with the next crisis. :)

You could always do a short story for anything you didn't have room for in the novel itself. That's always fun =)

C.P. wrote: "...all Tatars all the time..."

That's the spirit. That's the one I want. :D

I went to review The Golden Lynx, and ran into a bit of a snag. I searched the page, and could not find anything to click that would let me post one! No "post a review" or "review this book" or anything of the kind. I found "reccomend this book" (which I clicked".) I even tried clicking on the blank row of stars, hoping that would open something up. Any suggestions?

I see you've reviewed before, though not often.
Assign your stars. Click the number of stars you want, then you get an option 'write a review'. If you can't spot that option, simply go to 'your books', your shelves, up top is your stars: 'add a review' or 'edit review'.

Or, I'll bet this help topic has more clarity:
http://www.goodreads.com/help/show/23...

If I tap the button that says "I'm finished," the stars and the review option usually pop up automatically.

Thanks, Sandra, for the review—whatever it says!

Thanks, Bryn, for the help. Clicking the stars worked--this time--although, as I said before, I tried that earlier and nothing happened. Maybe I did not have my cursor properly alligned. Or maybe it was the stars:) At any rate, the review is up.

It's a bit touchy, Sandy, I've found. It's not just you!! Works one time, won't work the next time.

And it's a great review, Sandra. Thank you.

Our fate lies not in ourselves but in the (Goodreads) stars. :)

I'd like to mention that The Golden Lynx is currently under consideration for the Featured Author Group Read for March 2013. Members of Historical Fictionistas select the winner by voting, and the poll closes January 31.

If you are a member, you probably received a message from the moderator, but the message doesn't list the three nominees.

Also—and it's pure coincidence—I am running a giveaway for Golden Lynx that opens February 5, although it doesn't end until March 25. Two signed copies, as before. I'll post that one in the proper thread as the big day approaches.

Ooh, I'm excited =) Yes, post in the giveaway section when you get it up and I'll make sure to put it in the newsletter when it starts.

The Randomizer liked you, CP. For a day or two there I was having crazy visions of mine and Conn Iggulden's takes on Genghis as simultaneous group reads in Fictionistas. I don't know whether they were nightmares or...

Bryn wrote: "The Randomizer liked you, CP. For a day or two there I was having crazy visions of mine and Conn Iggulden's takes on Genghis as simultaneous group reads in Fictionistas. I don't know whether they w..."

That would be cool, except that I refuse to read Iggulden's take on Genghis for as long as I'm writing about Tatars, lest some bizarre "fact" of his lodge in my brain and I forget where I read it.

Do they randomize again for the next month? Since I saw the list, with you at #5, I've been hoping it means you're a shoo in for June, or whenever the group holds FA Group Read no. 2. I have both Amgalant 1 and Amgalant 2, as well as a head start on 1, so I'm ready if the Randomizer is. It'd be great to have two History Buffs on the list!

But yes, this is exciting. Nerve-racking, but exciting.

We'll see. Trying to plow forward on chapter 8 and not check the poll every two seconds...