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ARCHIVE - WEEK 11 – CLEOPATRA -> Chapter Nine - The Wickedest Woman in History (p. 261 - 283) - (MAY 25th – MAY 31st) - No Spoilers, please
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However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.
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Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History
(last edited May 25, 2015 08:46AM)
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The eleventh week’s reading assignment is:
Week Eleven - May 25th – May 31st, 2015
Chapter Nine: The Wickedest Woman in History, p. 261 - 283
Note: This week's reading ends with the sentence starting "At which he went off, well satisfied..."
Chapter Overview and Summary
Chapter Nine - The Wickedest Woman in History
Upon returning to Alexandria after the defeat at Actium, Cleopatra killed anyone who might lead an uprising against her. She also seized as much treasure as she could. Her first plan was to go to India by way of the Red Sea, so she had some ships transported overland, but they were destroyed by the Nabateans. There was even some thought of escaping to Spain.
The four legions in North Africa Antony had been counting on had gone over to Octavian. Despondent, Antony wandered around with just two friends, who finally brought him to Alexandria. He refused to see Cleopatra and lived in a small hut near the base of the lighthouse. He finally returned to the palace where Cleopatra tried to keep his spirits up. She corresponded with Octavian, trying to come to an arrangement where she or her children could still rule Egypt. But Octavian required her to execute Antony, which she couldn’t do. She built a mausoleum into which she put as many treasures as she could. As Octavian advanced toward Alexandria, she shut herself up in the mausoleum, threatening to burn the place down along with the treasure.
Antony suddenly decided to battle Octavian’s forces with his own ships and men. But his fleet surrendered to Octavian immediately, as did his cavalry. The infantry put up a weak effort. Antony fled back to the palace, where he received word that Cleopatra was dead. He asked his servant Eros to kill him, but Eros killed himself instead. Antony turned his sword upon himself, but though the wound was ultimately fatal, he took a while to die. He was lifted up into the mausoleum to join Cleopatra, who ripped her clothes and scratched herself. Antony died in her arms.
Octavian sent an envoy to talk to Cleopatra, and while she was busy, another man scaled up a ladder into the mausoleum and brought her out. She was kept under close watch so as not to kill herself. She requested a meeting with Octavian, which was granted. There are contradictory accounts of what happened: Plutarch has her dressed simply and looking quite distraught, while Dio says she was dressed sumptuously and acting imperiously. She gave him a list of her treasures and begged not to be taken to Rome to be paraded in a triumph.
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Well, you know what they say...a woman holds three corners of her home, while the rest of the familiy only one (or something like that). Women tend to fight until the very end and try any possibility. That was why the Romans slandered her in such a way....she was a fighter and a highly intelligent one.The highlight of this chapter is the quote that, for me, sums up the reason why everything happend to Cleopatra as it did.
"It has always been preferable to attribute a woman's success to her beauty rather than to her brains, to reduce her to the sum of her sex life. Against a woman who ensnares a man in the coils of her serpentine intelligence - in her ropes of pearls - there should, at least, be some kind of antidote. Cleopatra unsettles more as a sage than as a sedustress; it is less threatening to believe her fatally attractive than fatally intelligent"
Intelligent women are never especially popular in history.
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(last edited May 27, 2015 01:30PM)
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That's a great quote, Samanta. And too true. What a shame we don't have a contemporaneous Egyptian (or Greek or any anti-Roman) account of her life.
I know, but it's kind of logical given the fact that Rome controlled those parts of the world. If there even were any accounts of the kind to begin with, I believe they would have been destroyed so as not to place doubt on the "official" version. It is said somewhere in the book that Octavian rewrote history and tradition to suit his purposes and that he burned Antony's part of their correspondence for the same thing. It is not without reason that they say the history is written by the victorious.
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So coming to the end - I have finished chapter 9 but with a kindle version did not know where to divideAnd it becomes more and more clear that the "story" is not so definite.
That Cleopatra looked to the east and then the west indicates that she saw that holding her crown in Egypt was likely untenable.
Mark Antony however seems to have been a product of a Roman military background and he failed to keep up the necessary political parts to have his army/navy stick by him.
She was fluid and strong - he was it seems in the end weak.
He was unwilling it seems to face the world a military failure without his Cleo -
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But I think he went to more parties than all of us together......
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Vicki wrote: "The fact that Plutarch and Dio had such differing accounts of Cleopatra's meeting with Octavian makes me think there are no real sources for the meeting and they each decided to portray her to fit ..."Yep, sounds like it.
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Or we will simply respond to you here on each thread.
For the week of May 25th – May 31st, we are reading Chapter Nine, p. 261 - 283
The Wickedest Woman in History of the book Cleopatra: A Life by Stacy Schiff.
The eleventh week's reading assignment is:
Week Eleven - May 25th – May 31st
Chapter Nine, p. 261 - 283
IX: The Wickedest Woman in History
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book was kicked off on March 16th.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle.
This weekly thread will be opened up on May 25th.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Vicki will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Jose.
Welcome,
~Bentley
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL
REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.
Notes:
It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.
Citations:
If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.
If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...
Introduction Thread
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Table of Contents and Syllabus
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Glossary
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed. Since we are discussing the same time period and the same people will be discussed in this book as in the Liberation Trilogy - please utilize those three glossary parts. They will be very helpful to you and will provide a wealth of knowledge.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Bibliography
There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...--
Directions on how to participate in book discussions and how to follow the t's and c's - look at directives given for the discussion Landslide - What Do I Do Next?
I will modify these directives as we go along but for now utilize the information here.
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