Classics for Beginners discussion

Our July group read is The Waves by Virginia Woolf

Nina, who nominated the book, will be leading the discussion for the first half of July. I will be joining in (and taking over when she heads on holiday) once my library finally gets hold of their copy of the book for me.

Hope to see you all in the discussion.

Blurb for The Waves (Penguin Modern Classics)

More than any of Virginia Woolf's other novels, The Waves conveys the full complexity and richness of human experience. Tracing the lives of a group of friends, The Waves follows their development from childhood to youth and middle age. While social events, individual achievements and disappointments form its narrative, the novel is most remarkable for the rich poetic language that expresses the inner life of its characters: their aspirations, their triumphs and regrets, their awareness of unity and isolation. Separately and together, they query the relationship of past to present, and the meaning of life itself.



Description (Wikipedia)

The Waves, first published in 1931, is Virginia Woolf's most experimental novel. It consists of soliloquies spoken by the book's six characters: Bernard, Susan, Rhoda, Neville, Jinny, and Louis. Also important is Percival, the seventh character, though readers never hear him speak in his own voice. The soliloquies that span the characters' lives are broken up by nine brief third-person interludes detailing a coastal scene at varying stages in a day from sunrise to sunset.

As the six characters or "voices" speak Woolf explores concepts of individuality, self and community. Each character is distinct, yet together they compose (as Ida Klitgård has put it) a gestalt about a silent central consciousness

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waves - contains major plot spoilers but possibly an interesting read once you're finished.

Wikipedia entry for Virginia Woolf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgini...

Hope you enjoy the book and I shall be joining you all in discussions soon!

I loved reading this the first time just a couple of years ago. I'm not going to read it again, but I may chime in every so often. I hope you all enjoy it!

Very much looking forward to reading this with you! Virginia Woolf's books fascinate me, yet I find them hard to read, so it's good to do it together!

Some inspiration for those that are looking for it:

Review on The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ent...

Review on the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/0...

Also, there is a free online version of the book on Project Gutenberg Australia:
http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-n-z...

Happy reading everyone! :-)

I'll be joining in too! I've only read one Woolf before. Didn't love that one, but maybe this one will be different!

I've read the first 30 pages or so twice now. I'm struggling.

Rita *wants a quick quotes quill* Skeeter wrote: "I've read the first 30 pages or so twice now. I'm struggling."

The narrative flow can be quite tough to get into. But keep at it; you just may get used to it. I found that it became easier as I moved further into the novel.

My edition has two prefaces, which is the only thing I have read so far. They are beautifully written, one mainly about Percival as a symbol of the hero, the other about the concept of the waves
I will try to put some quotes here later. I will really start the book tonight or tomorrow

I started reading this today, and I was totally surprised. I didn't know that this was how the book was going to be narrated. I also didn't realise it would work! I find some of the children's thoughts hard to follow and confusing, but I get most of it, and I love the elegant and poetic way their thoughts are expressed! Although this isn't exactly an easy read, it's really good so far.

So, how is everyone getting on with the book? Any thoughts on the characters or the style? Anything else you want to share?

I must admit I am struggling with the style. I find it irritating; am just over halfway.

Just not feeling the narrative style. I can't seem to dig in with this one. It feels like I read a sentence and it's whatever the visual equivalent for "in one ear and out the other." Might have to go on the DNF pile.

Library finally got a copy in so I picked it up today. Only about 20 pages in so far so I'm sure I will get used to the style in time - I can certainly appreciate that parts of it are absolutely beautifully written - but I agree that at the moment it feels a bit like I have to keep rereading whole sentences and paragraphs to stop me getting lost.

Think I will be taking this one in bitesize chunks of a section or two a day with another novel on the side for when my brain just needs a story. Otherwise I fear I'll finish this one and then look down at the book and realise I haven't taken a word in.

I have pretty much the same feeling, Louise. It's a slow read for me as otherwise I might just not be able to appreciate it. But for me that also makes it a good fit for long, hot summer days!

Ashley wrote: "Just not feeling the narrative style. I can't seem to dig in with this one. It feels like I read a sentence and it's whatever the visual equivalent for "in one ear and out the other." Might have to..."

This is how I feel also.

I've decided to set the book aside for now. Maybe I'll try it again in the future when I have more time and patience. I'm just not getting any enjoyment from it right now.

Sorry Nina and Louise!

I finished this today, and I'm pleased to get to the end. I'm not really sure what it was about to be honest, but maybe that is the point. I gave it 2 stars because there are some wonderful phrases in amongst it all.

Rita, don't worry, I also struggle but I expected it to be a difficult read. I still feel like it's a hidden gem and I just haven't found the key yet. So, I keep searching...

Nina wrote: "Rita, don't worry, I also struggle but I expected it to be a difficult read. I still feel like it's a hidden gem and I just haven't found the key yet. So, I keep searching..."

Make sure you let us know when you find the key!

Put this book on hold for a little while Wimbledon was on (heartbroken about the men's final but very pleased with the women's) but picked it up again today. Think I'm actually getting more of a grip of it now, am much less constantly confused.

My main problem though is that, while the characters all have different personalities (Louis has an inferiority complex, Jinny wants men to love her etc.etc.), their narrative voices are all kind of the same. The soliloquies are all written in the same style with the same level of poetic lyricism, no matter who it is talking. And I do still quite frequently have to skim backwards and check which character's thoughts I'm reading - though I no longer need to reread whole chunks or paragraphs.

I totally understand what you're saying, Louise. I sometimes overread the 'XXX thinks' and then wonder that it doesn't make sense. Until I double check and realize that it's someone else's thoughts... I am still struggling though happy to hear that you get on better! Who's your favourite character so far? I might choose for Louis though I couldn't say why really.

Slowly but surely I am getting into it! I have less difficulty to follow the storyline and quite enjoy how one situation is described from the point of view of different persons and how that has quite an impact on the interpretation of the situation and each other's role. Generally I find the parts of the girls easier to follow than the parts of the boys, not sure why that is
Also, having a clearer idea of their respective characters helps me distinguish the sections despite the style always being the same. Getting curious on how this reading adventure will continue!

Let me add to this: it's really an extremely slow read for me, am only on page 33. I thought I could finish the book in 2 weeks but well, that's not gonna happen..m

Nina wrote: "Let me add to this: it's really an extremely slow read for me, am only on page 33. I thought I could finish the book in 2 weeks but well, that's not gonna happen..m"

I am so happy to hear you say this. I am having the same problem as well.

*sigh* I just don't know about this one. I didn't enjoy Mrs. Dalloway. I'm only 5 pages into this one, and it's not striking my fancy at all. I think it may just be possible that Woolf isn't my cup of tea. For now, though, I'll keep trudging on.

When I read about the book before every review or summary would talk of the six as being friends and call Percival the friend that is talked about a lot. It is true that we hear a lot about Percival but I don't have the impression that he's a friend. The others don't talk very positively about him and also he seems to never be part of what they do but always be with a group of other people. Also, the six themselves, I wonder whether they are really friends. The soliloquies are very self-centered to begin with - I guess a valid reflection of our thoughts in general - but also always seem very observing and almost critical of the others. To me it seems more that for each of the six one or more of the others are a sort of mirror to reflect their own personality and distinguish themselves from the others.

Nina wrote: "I totally understand what you're saying, Louise. I sometimes overread the 'XXX thinks' and then wonder that it doesn't make sense. Until I double check and realize that it's someone else's thoughts..."

Hmmm, I still don't think I'm far in enough (page 81 now) to chose a favourite character yet. I know it won't be Louis or Rhoda though! I kinda want to tell them both off for being so insecure. Though obviously Rhoda has some genuine social anxiety (which I know from experience suck) I just don't find it very interesting to read.

And agreed, the main characters really don't seem like friends (apart from Bernard and Neville), just six people who were all children at the same time and place and have now moved on. Basically those Facebook friends you have from school days when everyone added everyone but who you barely speak to or check up on because being at school together doesn't actually make you friends. Maybe the next section will show them interacting a bit better though, hard to tell when they're all doing their own things.

Nina wrote: "When I read about the book before every review or summary would talk of the six as being friends and call Percival the friend that is talked about a lot. It is true that we hear a lot about Perciv..."

Haha, I love how you make the link to Facebook, that might be very true! And I am changing my favourite. I liked Louis a lot in the beginning, maybe just because of his insecurity as a child, about his father and his Australian accent. Though now (p. 62) I am changing my mind. I start liking Susan better. Whether she'll become my favourite, we'll see. I am not a big fan of Jinny, that's for sure.

P. 120: Is Neville a homosexual? Was he in love with Percival? And is this part about the person he is in love with referring to a man? There's no clear indication of it but somehow a got this feeling and wondering whether anyone else has the same impression.

I'm going to say yes. I've been reading him as in love with Percival pretty much since he started mentioning him. And he definitely reads as in love with Percival at his leaving diner.

Have now reached the half way point and am enjoying it. They seem to be acting a bit more like friends now. I wish the descriptive interludes were shorter though, my brain switches off for them. Favourite characters at the moment: Bernard, Neville, and Jinny.

Yes, the leaving dinner when I first had that impression about Neville.

Interesting choice of favorite characters! What do you like about Jinny? I still like Susan quite a bit, she seems quite authentic and down to earth to me. Dislike Louis and Jinny. Not sure about Rhoda. Neville seems like a difficult person though definitely someone to like. Bernard is a little difficult to grasp I think.

Finished it today. Overall I enjoyed it but I must say that throughout the entire time it remained a difficult read for me. I feel like a laid a foundation for future reads and that every new read will reveal more and more of the book to me. I still struggled to understand the descriptive parts and some of the characters remained blurry for me but also found deep thoughts and beautiful phrases. Definitely glad I read it and definitely a book for my reread list! Overall 3 stars with the potential for 4 or maybe even 5 in the future!

I've been following your thread and have enjoyed your comments. It is a difficult read for many because it doesn't read like a normal novel with a plot because it isn't. If I may quote a fellow GR member: "The Waves is not "about" anything so much as it is a chronicle of the pain of seperation, and a celebration of the spiritual unity that finally connects everyone and everything that is, irrespective of death".

The Waves is written in the style of Joyce's Ulysses, but with a more lyrical, more poetic prose. She takes the reader inside the character, inside their thoughts, and let's you see them as they see themselves.

This novel is not for everyone and that's ok. I don't recommend it to my family or friends; it's too personal for me. I love it. It's my favorite novel and it's the most beautifully written novel I've ever read. But that's just me for what it's worth.

Nina wrote: "Yes, the leaving dinner when I first had that impression about Neville.

Interesting choice of favorite characters! What do you like about Jinny? I still like Susan quite a bit, she seems quite aut..."

One chapter off finishing now but Jinny is definitely my favourite character by a long long way. Partly because I'm slightly contrary I guess and I'm fed up of society and culture presenting women who take charge of their own sexual agency as 'bad'. But mostly because I don't see any reason to dislike her and lots to admire about her. She's written very sympathetically and she's the only one of the main group who seems to be happy and who isn't haunted by regrets. She's living her life as she wants to live it. And her lack of tortured navel-gazing (especially compared to the rest of the characters!) is refreshing. Jinny has herself sorted. I'd love to get back the self-confidence she has in herself.

In contrast I find Susan (at least by the end sections) a miserable character always complaining about something. Someone to feel sorry for rather than admire. She's bit of a grump and seems full of regret because her own wishes and personality feel like they've been subsumed by her role as a 'mother' (to the extent the father of her children is never even given a name!). I know which of the women I would rather be. And which I would rather be friends with.

Neville's fallen down my list - I have more patience for this whole tortured artist in love thing when it's a gay love story, but even then my patience is quite short. But I still quite like Bernard, he's pretty relatable - but then I think all of them have been given pretty much universal traits that make them all relatable in some way or another.

Louis and Rhoda though...that was a weird pairing!

And finished!

Rated it 3.5 stars - on pure quality it probably deserves a 4 or higher for the reasons Duane mentioned (and it would probably achieve that if I ever reread) but it took me too long to get into this time to describe it as an 'I really enjoyed it' book. It definitely grew on me as I read though and I'm very glad that I did read it (and that I made it through!).

I have to admit I was kind of dreading how it might go when I saw this one won the poll, had never read any Virginia Woolf before and wasn't sure I would get on with it. So a pleasant surprise! I knew it would be technically brilliant, but very glad I ended up enjoying it as well. And, as an incredibly introspective person (I suffer from periodic bouts of depression) there was a lot I could relate to in almost all the soliloquies once I got used to the format and the very insular outlook of most of the characters.

Jinny is still my favourite though. Live life the way you want to, don't be scared of growing old, and keep rocking the red lipstick!



Edit: will go back and read the introduction to my copy tomorrow, see if Kate Flint has anything interesting to say about it all. For now, though, I need a break!

Louise wrote: "Nina wrote: "Yes, the leaving dinner when I first had that impression about Neville.

Interesting choice of favorite characters! What do you like about Jinny? I still like Susan quite a bit, she se..."

I totally understand that reasoning and fully agree in general, only that I didn't see this aspect in Jinny. To me, like all the other characters, she wasn't happy with her life and had regrets about her choices. It's interesting that you saw her so differently! I also thought that the fact that all of them hadn't had the life they originally were hoping to have was one of the major aspects of the book. I vaguely remember Bernard saying something at the end that made me think this, but it's been too long since I read it to remember exactly. I put the book on my reread-list and next time I will keep in mind what you said about Jinny and see whether I get the same impression then :)

I am also happy to hear you enjoyed it. I must say that reading it in a group made it much easier for me and I am glad it got chosen and there were some others willing to go through this not easy read.

I'm only half-way through the book as I was really busy last month. I've enjoyed it so far but have found it really tiring to read. I have to think so much about the meaning and truth behind their thoughts.

But it's also interesting to compare the characters to each other, and to compare myself to them. I see huge differences and similarities between myself and them. I don't really like Jinny because I'm more like Rhoda, not as shy though.

Some of the things the characters say are so interesting and meaningful. I will never forget what Bernard said, about people being united while having the same goal on a train (to reach the destination), then rushing off into their individual lives when they arrive.

Nina wrote: "Louise wrote: "Nina wrote: "Yes, the leaving dinner when I first had that impression about Neville.

Interesting choice of favorite characters! What do you like about Jinny? I still like Susan quit..."

Yeah, I'm not going to say Jinny had a no regrets. You're right that none of them got the life they were initially dreaming about. I think it's really the theme of the book and the closest thing it has to a plot. But then who does get the life they wanted as a kid? It's why all the characters have relatable aspects to them at some point or another. I do think Jinny handled and accepted it better than the others though, choosing to enjoy what her life was rather than wallow in what it could have been or what she deserved.

Of course that is not always a healthy attitude either, but I don't feel Jinny actually felt that she missed out on anything by not following Susan's path of marriage and kids. If she seemed to genuinely regret that, I'd probably feel sorry for her in the same way I do for Susan. But Jinny's regrets seem more about things she has no control of (losing her beauty, growing old) than any choices she has made.


Glad you've joined us, Marietta! I agree, it is a pretty challenging read, but hopefully a worthwhile one.

There are definite aspects of all the characters I can relate to (both positive and negative) but am interested in what it is you see in Rhoda that makes you relate to her most? I found her the most experimental, elusive and hard to pin down character. The only time I really felt she felt as 'real' and relatable as the others was during the dinner for Percival and her feelings about entering a room and being seen.

Me, I'm probably a Bernard (though I like to think I've wasted a lot less time in accepting that I will never be 'brilliant') with a tiny bit of Jinny thrown in and occasional bouts of Rhoda at the dinner party.

Louise wrote: "Nina wrote: "Louise wrote: "Nina wrote: "Yes, the leaving dinner when I first had that impression about Neville.

Interesting choice of favorite characters! What do you like about Jinny? I still li..."

I like how you try to find out which character you share most with. Would you then say that they are some sort of archetypes? I hadn't thought about that yest and not sure whether I would really put this as a strong aspect but maybe. Guess I will have to think about it a bit more.

I myself would say I have quite a bit of Susan when leaving school in my, probably also quite some Bernard, Rhoda an Neville not sure as I didn't really manage to grasp their personalities really, hardly anything of Louis apart from his self-consciousness as a child about being different because of his father. And Jinny, not so sure, but I will reconsider your thoughts, Louise!


I agree that in general you don't have the life you imagined as a child. The big difference for me lies in the question of whether what you wanted as a child is what you still think is the ideal life when you're older. I certainly never imagined my life the way it is now when I as a child. I had a very traditional idea of what my life would look like because that is what I saw all around me (married, kids, house, garden, ...). But this is not what I would want to have now, my opinion on both that lifestyle and what I want for myself have changed because my horizon broadened and I saw that there are other lifestyles that fit me better. (Of course, this is not a general judgement but only true for my personal life.) So, for me the question is not so much of whether you get what you wanted as a child but whether you made choices that led to a lifestyle/ situation that fits you. Susan, for example, got the life she wanted - looking at it objectively. She got married, had kids, lived in the countryside. In my opinion it's more that she realized that the reality of this lifestyle is different from what it looked like when she was a child (and the reasons she was attracted to it).

Marietta, I agree, this is such a true thought. It's good to remember that every now and then!

Hmmm, I don't think I would call the characters archetypes, I don't think they're quite so simplistically rendered or distinct enough from each other for that. More that they all very very human and have thoughts and feelings that think most people can relate to from some point in their lives - though not necessarily ones we always share or talk (or read!) about.

For instance, when I told my big sister (she lectures at uni part time in EngLit) that I was reading this book her first recollection of it was the 'wonderful' dinner party scene and how reading it as a teenager had been the first time that she realised that other people overthink the act of walking into a room and have all these social anxieties that she assumed were just her. It was a really important scene for her because it was the first time she'd seen characters share those ridiculous introspective anxieties that she sometimes felt (yet as a teen she was probably the most confident person I could imagine).


And agreed about life! Not getting what you expected as a child isn't the tragedy, not working out what it is that will make you happy is. I wanted to be an explorer/zookeeper/author (still kinda wish I'd gone further into the zoology side of things sometimes but secondary school science was the worst, so don't regret it too much) yet I ended up by going down a totally different history/humanities route instead. I also never aspired for a 'true love' type relationship or marriage and children the same way a lot of people I know did. And I still don't (maybe why I like Jinny!).

Finished this at the beginning of the month, but never seemed to get time to read through comments. I honestly had a hard time getting into this one and did not like it. This is the third book I've read by Woolf, and I've liked each one less than the previous one -- the first being To the Lighthouse, and the second being Mrs. Dalloway.

My progress is going slowly with this book, though there is progress! 59% read.

Rhoda said at the dinner party that she saw distant lands over the heads of her friends and wanted to go there. I wasn't sure how that worked, but a few days later I went to my mother's friend's house to meet their family. It was the first time I met them and it felt so awkward because I had nothing interesting to say and couldn't join in the conversation. And I realised that I felt exactly like Rhoda in that one hour. I am not a social person at all.

But at the dinner party Rhoda was with her friends, so she must be an extremely shy introvert if she feels uncomfortable even with them.

When I read about Jinny, I always feel like I could never do the things she does (dance, party). She makes me feel out of place!