The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Without Failby Lee Child is our second group read. The discussion will be led by Max F.

Thank you Max!

I just started this the other night. Very excited that the book I just started is being read by a book group.

I was thinking about reading the first Jack Reacher book but I think I would join in on this one and read this book.

Excellent choice - I'm a big Lee Child fan (although the Jack Reacher movie was a total disappointment, as I figured it would be).

Hi Everyone, and welcome to the group discussion for Without Fail by Lee Child. I'm glad to be the moderator, and I look forward to seeing a lively discussion about the book.

Without Fail is the 6th installment of the Jack Reacher series, and this is a timely selection, since "Jack Reacher" - the movie, starring Tom Cruise - recently hit the theaters. (It will be doubly interesting to get everyone's thoughts on how the movie stands up to the books.)

I've read many of the Reacher novels already, and they've all been a lot of fun: great plots, realistic dialogue, plenty of action. Like many other series, you don't miss anything by not starting at the beginning. I started somewhere in the middle, but recently decided to begin at the beginning...and I'm now reading the series back-to-back.

Although Reacher himself doesn't change much, the style of writing does, giving each book its own feel and personality.

I enjoyed this book quite a bit, and I hope you will, too. Like it or hate it, I'll be eager to get your thoughts and see where this goes.

Enjoy!

I read this when it first came out as I do whenever Lee Child comes out with a new book. I love Jack Reacher! This book was great and you're in for a great ride!!

Reacher never disappoints you. You are in for another hell of a ride.

@ Shannon: It won't take folks who have read the books too long to realize that casting Tom Cruise to play Jack Reacher was a big mistake...I think Tom Cruise is 5'8"

i read this in january before I realised that it was going to be the group rad. It is always fascinating to see how jack's mind works and the concept of being hired bcause I loved your brother who said great things about you strange.Also to hang your whole career on even more so.

but it was definatly worth a read and I am looking to start the next in the series by the end of the month

Count me in on being a part of the Jack Reacher cult. Matter of fact, I'm beginning to speak like him. I love his idioms. I can't recall his using it in "Without Fail," but my favorite reacher du jour is "back in the day," as in, "What did you do, back in the day?" I had to look up the phrase to see exactly what it meant, but it's said with such longing, and by several characters, that the phrase itself warms me to any character who uses it.

Hi All! I'm new to the group and have been looking for the perfect excuse to start reading the Jack Reacher novels. Normally I like to start a series from the beginning, however, it sounds like it really doesn't matter. Looking forward to joining in with the discussions.

Kathryn - I prefer starting a series at the beginning as well, but each of these novels gives the reader enough background to understand who Jack Reacher is and what makes him tick. I've finished about 10 books so far, and I can't think of any in-book references to earlier books that really made much of a difference...it's almost as if Lee Child expected people to start reading mid-stream. Enjoy and comment!

Thanks Max! Your input makes me even more comfortable in doing this. I think, if I enjoy it, I will then start from the beginning. Book downloaded onto Kindle and ready to go!

I was familiar with "back in the day"--guess that shows my age?

I'm looking forward to reading this one, too. I came rather late to Lee Child and I skipped over a lot of the middle ones.

I agree that these can be read out of order for the most part.

I've only read two Lee Child books so I've been out of order as well. I read Running Blind and One Shot. Liked Running Blind the best.

Yes, usually I begin reading at the beginning of a series, but didn't with the reacher series, although after the first book, I went back and started with the first and was introduced in Reacher's passing remarks to his brother and his mother.

When I got to the 8th Reacher book, The Enemy, I was delighted to find that chronologically the events in the book occurred, if not back in Jack Reacher's day, much earlier than events in the 7th book. In The Enemy, Reacher's brother is alive and they travel to Paris to see their mother. I found the time mixup really rewarding.

Great to hear that this is the book, I'm off to buy it right now!

Lee Child never disappoints. It was a good read. One of the authors that I don't mind paying full price for.

I was familiar with "back in the day" too. I guess I heard and used it well...back in the day =).

I'm glad this one is readable without reading the first ones (although I have read #1 and #3 before. I haven't seen the movie yet, but it seems as if the books I've read emphasize Jack's size - if I were to describe him, the first word would be "big". So yes, the casting of little Tom Cruise is strange.

Can I know if it is a must to read this Jack Reacher series from the beginning at Book 1? I noticed this is the 6th book in the Jack Reacher series.

Katrina wrote: "Can I know if it is a must to read this Jack Reacher series from the beginning at Book 1? I noticed this is the 6th book in the Jack Reacher series."

You do not have to read the Jack Reacher series in order. The first one I read was about #6 and I liked it so much, I then read every Reacher book , but not in order.

Thanks June, great to know it.

Agreed with everyone so far....you can jump into the series anywhere and still fully enjoy the stories.

And size matters...Jack Reacher is 6'5" so casting Tom Cruise was a joke. Also, Reacher fans know that - although Reacher is an expert with guns - he deals with most situations with his bare hands. When I saw all the explosions and big guns in the movie trailer, I knew I shouldn't see it.

Lastly, a question...for those of you who have read a number of the Reacher novels already, have you noticed anything different about this one? I noticed a difference right away, but I wonder of anyone else picked up on this....

I've never read a Reacher novel, and this one is outside of my usual choice of genre. So far, I'm liking it. Reacher is pretty interesting. I enjoyed the shopping episode and the bit of humour - he wants to work where it's cold, so that he can use the longish coat he just bought. The old adage about long coats is pretty true to my experience.
So far, this book reminds me a tiny bit of Michael Connelly's book about ex-Vietnam soldiers making connections. But as I said, this is a new genre for me. Great to try out new writers and books.

I just finished the book and wondered what others thought of it. What do you think about Reacher's solution to the problem? (view spoiler)[ Isn't it basically vigilantism? Or even murder (even though the bad guys deserved it? (hide spoiler)] Don't get me wrong, I liked his solution, and it's not like he doesn't take things into his own hands in the other books, but this just seemed more deliberate.

Good question Ellen. I haven't really read other Jack Reacher novels, so I can't compare it that way. However, I think I disagree with Reacher's solution mostly because (view spoiler)[ I don't feel that the bad guys were above the law - if they had been caught they would have been tried/convicted, but no attempt was made for this resolution (hide spoiler)]. That said, I enjoyed the book.

There are spoilers in this post, but I don't know how to do the clever 'Hide Spoiler' thing - help!

I just finished it, and while I don't agree with Reacher's vigilant approach, it is the way he rolls in the other books and you just have to suspend disbelief for this aspect of the Reacher stories! I think Child tries to make it seem less cold and clinical by (view spoiler)[sending the FBI off in the wrong direction (so they would never catch the bad guys) and making it clear that the Secret Service have no mechanism for chasing the bad guys down - leaving Jack Reacher as almost the only, and certainly the most effective mechanism for justice. (hide spoiler)]

Mark wrote: "There are spoilers in this post, but I don't know how to do the clever 'Hide Spoiler' thing - help!..."

Mark, use this code for spoilers: <spoiler> text </spoiler>.

Ellen wrote: "I just finished the book and wondered what others thought of it. What do you think about Reacher's solution to the problem?..."

I've read two of the Reacher books now and that's something that's bothered me. (view spoiler)[I understand that Reacher is essentially a vigilante and that's what the series is based on, but it doesn't really sit well with me. He's written as a very simple, straightforward kind of guy, the egotism and narcissism necessary to be a vigilante don't quite fit with that. It leaves Reacher fairly unlikable in my eyes. I like the mystery, but I'm never rooting for him. (hide spoiler)]

Esse wrote: "Mark, use this code for spoilers..."

Many thanks, I got it now, spoiler hidden...

And regarding the vigilantism - I think Child always makes it very clear that the bad guys are definitely bad. There's no nuance to their evil and Reacher never has to make any tough moral decisions. Does this reduce the need for Reacher to have a big ego or be narcissistic? Although, I guess he has a pretty big ego anyway, lots of evidence of that in this book - he's supremely self-confident.

The fact that Reacher goes after the bad guys (and I agree they are obviously bad) has never really bothered me and is actually part of the appeal of these books. However, in Without Fail it seems more like he's hunting them down for execution, and that the government condones that. Problematic, especially in light of some of the things that have been in the news lately.

Suzanne wrote: "Good question Ellen. I haven't really read other Jack Reacher novels, so I can't compare it that way. However, I think I disagree with Reacher's solution mostly because [spoilers removed]. That ..."

You have a good point. But it seems that the government "unofficially" sanctioned his actions because it didn't want the public to find out what the bad guys had done and thus embarrass the Secret Service.

Ellen wrote: "The fact that Reacher goes after the bad guys (and I agree they are obviously bad) has never really bothered me and is actually part of the appeal of these books. However, in Without Fail it seems ..."

That's a good point, Ellen - it is a particularly ruthless killing, even for Reacher. Although I can't say the idea that the Government condones the execution particularly shocked me, but maybe I'm just old and cynical...

Yeah, I know about the old and cynical...! :-) (Speaking for myself of course!)

Agree with all of the comments above. Reacher's sense of justice becomes particularly pointed (lethal) whenever a friend, relative or lover is wronged by the bad guys. There are a few other books that show the government's willingness to look the other way, but the bottom line is that Reacher would do what he wants, whether it's "sanctioned" or not.

One thing that's always struck me about the Reacher novels is the fact that Lee Child is not American, yet his grasp of "American" is amazing: details of life in the US military, accurate descriptions of the rural US locations, characters' dialog, sense of right and wrong, self-determination and - yes - retribution.

Also, keep in mind that this book was originally written in 2002 - only a year after 9/11. The general desire for self-protection and for holding the Bad Guy accountable was in full swing.

Good points, Max. And, I, too, am amazed by how well Child "gets" American.

this from robert -- I am a great Reacher fan -- discovered him after his first three books hit PB and found a master at work -- as a mystery writer who tries to grow, I study stuff like POV (first or third) and how he handles bringing a character onstage -- this guy is amazing and when my little PI series got a small rebirth I started my next book using Third person instead of first -- which brought me back to Amazon, always searching, where i found a bevy of pleasant reviews of my early work, which is visible with a click of your mouse on this thing down below, which is all I understand, as I approach my 78th year and wonder about each day -- will there be one -- which is why small triumphs excite me despite the fame of Lee Child, envious I am but still kicking if you see this URL:

http://www.amazon.com/Bloody-Murdock-...

This Jack Reacher novel slipped beyond his usual boundaries of honourable maverick. I have enjoyed this series right from the first book. This novel, however, left me frustrated. The plot meandered between one government agency and another, never allowing the reader any certaintly about what was going on. I couldn't connect the dots because they were obscure. The final chapters were filled with brutality that goes beyond anything I have ever seen this character participate in. Just thinking about it leaves me simmering in irritation. I am sad to say that I should have sat this one out.

VickiLee wrote: "This Jack Reacher novel slipped beyond his usual boundaries of honourable maverick. I have enjoyed this series right from the first book. This novel, however, left me frustrated. The plot meande..."


I like that description of Reacher as "honourable maverick"!

VickiLee wrote: "This Jack Reacher novel slipped beyond his usual boundaries of honourable maverick. I have enjoyed this series right from the first book. This novel, however, left me frustrated. The plot meande..."

Maybe the timing was important, written in the febrile atmosphere of 2002?

VickiLee and Mark - I think the timing of this book is incredibly important. Coming on the heels of America's first experience with terror from abroad, Child seems to have tapped into the anger and need for retribution that so many Americans felt at the time. The prospect of hunting down those responsible was palpable, and I suspect this book tried to seize on that feeling. (Just think about how quickly TV shows like Law & Order create an episode that almost mirrors an actual sensational crime from only weeks before)

Also, the uncertainty about what was really going on, as well as the bouncing between law enforcement agencies...I think that's a lot closer to reality than many of us care to admit. One of the lessons learned after 9/11 is that disparate agencies must share information and coordinate efforts to foil the bad guys. And once again, Lee Child highlights this very point and weaves it into his story.

This was not my favorite Reacher novel, but I do feel that the other books also make the reader struggle to connect the dots. While it's fun to guess the outcome, I'll take a suspenseful and surprise ending anyday.

Max F
good insights
you sound like a G-Man
robert

I've appreciated the insights as well - thank you! I also never realized that Lee Child wasn't American - I never would have guessed from the novel.

I'm definitely going to try to read more Jack Reacher books - it sounds as if there are some even better ones out there!

suzanne
in my humble opinion
the early books are fine
the later books are the product of fame
and therefore spotty
the early writing is crisp
inventive, filled with carefully wrought insights
the later books boil the pot
all best,
robert

Thanks Robert! I really appreciate the recommendation - I'd rather spend my time reading the best ones =)

hi suzanne-
yeah this guy is a brilliant thriller writer when he's on, when he's paying attention--i remember the opening of Killing Floor--Reacher gets arrested in the first sentence--he brings in R's brother, Joe, so smooth--and the next 6-7 were fine.
did i ask what you write?
if not, what?
all best,
robert

I've only read the early ones, maybe I should check out a later one for comparison - what do people think are the below-par books?

I just finished The Enemy (#8) - it was enjoyable, because it took place while Reacher was still in the Army, and it provided a pretty cool perspective on how the US Army was trying to adapt to the post-Cold War world.

Two of the Reacher books that stand out for me - in a good way - are Nothing to Lose (#12) and Gone Tomorrow (#13). Although they come later in the series (deference to robert above), both were gripping stories that I thought stood up well to the earlier books.

I finally caught up and reviewed the book...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...