Sherlock Holmes discussion

In the "Adventure of the Five Orange Pips" Holmes says: "I have been beaten four times -- three times by men, and once by a woman."

I am ambivalent about Irene Adler as the woman described above because if you follow the date it was written, Five Orange Pips was written first before The Scandal in Bohemia. Or maybe Doyle had forseen that he will write about Adler when he wrote this line? I might be wrong. And who are the rest?

I am not even halfway through the whole series but I would love if anybody can shed a light to this.

By the way I just recently joined and I enjoyed reading your discussions.

I know that there was a man who just got away from Holmes. He solved the case, but didn't quite catch the guy in time. Oh cheese, which on e was it? D: I'll have to check if it was in one before Orange Pips. And none can be Moriarty, because he hadn't been written about yet. I think I've heard this speculated about before, though, and people think about it, but usually assume it was a mistake, or something. Very confusing. It's like the mystery of when Watson's wife called him 'James' once. Huh.

I actually got more confused. Haha. I really have to finish the book. I just bought it last week. Well, atleast I have something to look forward to! Thank you!

No probs. I wish I could be of more help, though. XD

About the James thing, isn't his middle name Hamish? Which is some other language for James.

Oh, really? Huh, that's interesting. Do you know what language?

I used to, but I forget. It's probably on Wikipedia or something.

Here's the info:

"Hamish is a masculine given name in English. It is the Anglicised form of the vocative case of the Scottish Gaelic Seumas: Sheumais. The Scottish Gaelic Seumas is the equivalent to the English James."

Conan Doyle of course was Scottish.

Oh! :D Coolio!

Thanks fo all the information. I would definitely not be puzzled when i reach that story. Yay! And yes you are! You have been a great help Thanks Mel!

;)

I just recently read the Sherlock Holmes story where he says he has been beaten four times. Of course, the woman is Irene Adler.

Yessie. :)

Sinda wrote: "I just recently read the Sherlock Holmes story where he says he has been beaten four times. Of course, the woman is Irene Adler."

I am uncertain of that. As I have mentioned The Five Orange Pips was written first before the Scandal in Bohemia (Irene's first appearance). Unless Mr. Doyle predicted he'll be writing about Irene.

Huh. Geez, that's weird. Maybe they were published in a different order originally, when they were newspaper stories.

Well I have to let it go then or it's going to make me mad! Haha.

I did some googling! Apparently of the short stories, Scandal in Bohemia was the first to be published in the newspaper (1891), and then it was put into 'The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes' in 1892. Since it was published before Five Orange Pips, it's possible that Doyle had already invented Irene Adler and had her in mind.

That said, I went and checked the actual dates in which the story was set. The events with Irene Adler happened in March 1888, whereas the events of the Five Orange Pips occurred in September 1887. It seems impossible then for the woman Holmes refers to in Pips to have been Irene Adler, since in his timeline Scandal hasn't happened yet?

Possibly a mistake by Doyle? Or there could be another mysterious Woman :)

The order that you read them was the order they were published Doyle mixed up on the time line of the series when writing just like he gave the Moriarty brothers the same first name, forgot Watson first name and calls him James instead of John. Doyle didn't much care for the Holmes character he had made and really just kept up with the stories because that what the public wanted.

Yeah, didn't they, like, send him hate mail when he tried to kill him off?

Mel wrote: "Yeah, didn't they, like, send him hate mail when he tried to kill him off?"
They did! People actually wore black armbands in mourning the death of Sherlock Holmes.

XD Gotta love the Sherlockians! XD

Right?? Fantastic people!

I just read The Final Problem.... noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Emily wrote: "I just read The Final Problem.... noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!"

Keep reading ;)

ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Emily wrote: "I just read The Final Problem.... noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!"

Keep reading ;)"

DITTO!!!!

xD

I am almost finish with all his novels and short stories! :D

Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today! :D Pure awesomeness <3 Except I can't wait till the Return of Sherlock Holmes. I took a sneak peak >:3

But I have to wait till I've read the Memoirs first.

Um, I have a question, though: Should I read first The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes, or The Hound of the Baskervilles and The Valley of Fear, which I have yet to read? This here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind... says to read the Memoirs. But I'm not sure I'll survive with that big gap between the Memoirs and the Return.


It's such a hard decision! XDD

Hmmmm, I can't tell you. I'm yet to read any of the books yet, it's sad. I think I might start to read them once I'm finished my current line up of books.

ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today! :D Pure awesomeness :3

But I have to wait till I've read the Memoirs first.

Um, I have a question, though: Should I read fi..."

I have the complete compilation of his stories buonded in 2 volumes. Here's how it was arranged (and everything makes sense if you read it in this order):
1. A Study in Scarlet
2. The Sign of Four
3. Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
4. Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes
5. The Hounds of Baskerville
6. The Valley of Fear
7. His Last Bow
8. The Case Book of Sherlock Holmes

:)

Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today! :D Pure awesomeness :3

But I have to wait till I've read the Memoirs first.
..."

Oh hey, thanks :) But what about The Return of Sherlock Holmes?

Yeah, that's the only one missing.... Thanks by the way, I need to read them now.

Lol - yes you do! :D They're really really good. Brilliant. And they aren't very hard to read, either. I've found them the easiest classics I've read so far ^^

ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today! :D Pure awesomeness :3

But I have to wait till I've read the ..."

Shoot, sorry. Haha. It's supposed to be after The Memoirs and before The Hounds . My bad, I must have passed out that time. Hah!

Tut! Hurry now and read!

And trust me, everytime you finish a novel or short story you'd be mind blown! :) After reading a story and before moving on to the next one, I have to pause for a while to ponder how genius Doyle is. Ah-mazing!

Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today! :D Pure awesome..."

Haha, I'd be reading right now, but a) I have a library book I need to finish first, and b) ... I have another heart-wrenching decision :/
We just got the complete collection of the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmeses :P. And now I don't know whether to continue reading and endanger the films (I've figured out that if you read the story first, the film is no longer as exciting ... but if you watch the film first, the book is just as good :/) ... or watch the films and endanger my enjoyment of reading the books! Ugh. Lol.

ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just finished The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes today!..."

Ah my dear friend. Ambivalence! :)) I totally agree with that though I have not seen Jeremy Brett's version. I am actually watching BBC Sherlock and reading the originals at the same time. :) It doesn't make a difference (well, only in the case of Sherlock). The book makes me excited about the series and the series made me excited to read the novels! :D

Well it would be less damage if you watch first if you really are into reading. :) Please feel free to give feedback on the stories when you have the chance of finishing the book. I love discussing Sir Arthur's works.

And yeah I'm thinking on seeing Jeremy Brett's version too. He gets mentioned alot in this group.

Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just f..."

Haha, that's because he just might be the best Sherlock Holmes ever acted. Maybe. He is very good, you should definitely watch him :)

And I will look forward to it! :D

Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Awesomeness! I just f..."

I just wiki'd ambivalence and the definition made me laugh out loud :D

Yes. Not sure if you are going to love the book or hate it because you watched the movie. and vice versa :) I don't know why it made you laugh though. :) i will this weekend ;)

Clarins wrote: "Yes. Not sure if you are going to love the book or hate it because you watched the movie. and vice versa :) I don't know why it made you laugh though. :) i will this weekend ;)"

"Ambivalence is a state of having simultaneous, conflicting feelings toward a person or thing.[1] Stated another way, ambivalence is the experience of having thoughts and/or emotions of both positive and negative valence toward someone or something. A common example of ambivalence is the feeling of both love and hate for a person. The term also refers to situations where "mixed feelings" of a more general sort are experienced, or where a person experiences uncertainty or indecisiveness concerning something. The expressions "cold feet" and "sitting on the fence" are often used to describe the feeling of ambivalence."

I must be in a strange mood today :) The definition just described it so perfectly.

ღ♣✽ᕼᗝᕊᕊᓰT ᗩﬡD ᖘᖇᗝᘮD✽♣ღ (a.k.a. Johanna) wrote: "Clarins wrote: "Yes. Not sure if you are going to love the book or hate it because you watched the movie. and vice versa :) I don't know why it made you laugh though. :) i will this weekend ;)"

"A..."

It does right? :) Haha.

Lol.

Arsene Lupin has beaten Holmes at his own game on numerous occasions, though granted, never as told by Doyle. And Arsene Lupin is just cooler. Sorry, Holmes fans.

Arsene Lupin? Hmmmmm....

I know exactly who he is now. He sunds similar to Sherlock.

about the people who beat sherlock I always assumed that one of them would be Charles Augustus Milverton because Sherlock seemed to of met him in the past and Sherlock never really caught him

By the way, Watson's middle name is never given in the stories. Just the H, which is the same first initial as his father and older brother. Hamish is only speculation.

https://oldpatrick.me/2013/01/06/whic...

https://oldpatrick.me/2012/02/03/35/

Order of the Books then order of story publication.
1. A Study in Scarlet
2. The Sign of Four
3. Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
4. Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes
5. The Hound of Baskervilles
6. The Return of Sherlock Holmes
7. The Valley of Fear
8. His Last Bow
9. The Case Book of Sherlock Holmes

Footnotes:
1. 'The Cardboard Box' was originally published between 'Silver Blaze' and 'The Adventure of the Yellow Face.'
2. The last three books are collected out of order.
3. For instance, 'The Valley of Fear' was originally published between 'The Adventure of the Dying Detective' and the short story 'His Last Bow.'
4. The original publication order:
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/landzasta...

Also, there are LOTS of inconsistencies in the stories, especially when it comes to Watson's marriage.